Metroid is a deeply flawed series

[ChiefReginod]

I've just 100%'d Super Metroid, Other M, Fusion and Zero Mission all back to back. I've also completed Metroid 1 and 2 and Samus Returns on 3DS (100%) in the past. Metroidvanias are up there as one of my favorite game genres. I've played through all of the classic Castlevanias as well. I've finished all of these games at least a few times each and now I'm playing through Metroid Prime (GC) for the first time.

I've come to the conclusion that Super Metroid is the only truly great game in the series. All of the rest have deep flaws that breed much more frustration than fun factor, but the things is they're the kind of things that are easy to forget about once you finish them. Starting with Prime, the series adopted flawed design as features: Tedious enemies that pose no challenge if not for the broken controls. Long, drawn out battles with inconsequential enemies that respawn exactly the same way they did in the 2D games. Backtracking that fails to stir curiosity (poor map and mission design). Boss battles that aren't challenging and don't make you think, they're just long and repetitive. Forced counter-attacks to win battles with basic enemies. I could go on.

Everywhere I look, people seem to think that just because the sequence-breaking makes for fun speed runs it somehow makes up for everything else. How does that enhance a first-time player's experience? If you have to play a game over and over for years to get to a point where you can overlook its flaws, what does that say about the game?

*flame shield activate*

Before you disagree with me I'm going to need to know which of the Metroid games you've completed without FAQs or save states and why you think the controls aren't completely broken from Prime onward.

 

[M7L7NK7]

Metroid never clicked with me

 

[DarkCoffe64]

Don't exactly care too much about Metroid, but the one game I ever managed to finish was... Other M and Zero Mission on GBA, lol
The others I remember either getting lost/stuck and unsure about how to progress, or just got bored and another game I was interested showed up.
Tho, I played ZM somewhat recently, now that I kinda have a somewhat developed brain, the other games I played when I was a young bab, so guess I just wasn't smarts enough to figure it out. Other M's another story, that game's as linear as a straight line.

 

[AshuraZro]

The "before you disagree with me" line is an odd choice as you're defending your opinion and looking to discredit others before they've even disagreed. It comes off as inviting conversation and then pushing it away in the same post. If anything, I'd welcome those that haven't played much and may not have nostalgia involved. You can only have a first impression once after all.

Personally, I've completed every Metroid game many times over with exception to federation force (never played) and Other M (only 100%'d once). I replayed Prime again just a couple weeks ago even. Metroid is without a doubt my favorite game series. And that said? I wouldn't disagree with some of your points at all.

I would leave the NES/Famicom Metroid out of it the conversation because it was the first and just seems unfair to take a swing at the first attempt. I like the game but it is absolutely not something I would wheel out and say "Here's a game you should play in 2021!".

With the 2D games, I see a formula that is hard to evolve without losing what it is. I've enjoyed each successor in the series but there's always the feeling that it was never quite what I wanted from it (knowing full well I don't know what I really want from it). Hell, I actually enjoyed playing through Other M despite having many complaints about it. For me, these have never been difficult games outright. Instead, I see them as games about exploration, atmosphere and power fantasy. You start out weak but before long you're wrecking just about everything even on your first time through. The percentage at the end of the game invites you to seek out the rest of the items. Do you need them to beat the game? Hell no. You'll never use any of that extra ammo probably. But hey, its kinda fun to do. If you want to make the game hard or want a challenge, you can do that but it's not the game becoming hard at that point but rather a conscious choice of the player to make the game hard. I think that's to the credit of the game but not something that makes it amazing.

Now let's talk about Prime because I honestly think its the most interesting discussion. Prime is a very interesting series to me, I really enjoyed playing through them but I think the problems with the Prime games are among the most visible in the design.

1. Controls: The controls I feel are a product of the era. It's a time when lots of developers were trying to figure out the right way to do an FPS on console. A few got it right, some did okay, many did not. Metroid Prime I feel fits in a unique version of the middle. Rather than trying to make a traditional FPS, they changed the gameplay to suit the controls. It's a unique solution but can also been seen as a compromise from the start. There is no doubt that the action needs to slow down and simplify as a result though. I like the controls for what the game is but a fast paced and challenging action game it is certainly not. If you want to go full silly mode, look up PrimeHack, a build of dolphin where you can play the Prime games with mouse and keyboard. I did a playthrough recently and while I had fun, the enemies may as well never even have been there.
   
   
2. Backtracking: This is par for the course for Metroid and is part of the excitement is returning to an area to explore in a new way. Prime however bathes in this idea, engaging in it at times is either too much or the quality of the backtracking is too low. Part of the problem I think is that the pace and way you move in first-person is slow and not as fluid as 2D where you have speed booster, screw attacks, space jumps, etc. The "nintendo fetch quest" near the end of them (I call it Nintendo and not Metroid solely because of Wind Waker) pumps the brakes on the whole adventure. This leads into the next part.
   
   
3. Secrets, item collecting and power fantasy: This is where I feel the Prime series commits its worst sin. The aforementioned fetch quest takes the fun of exploration and secret finding and makes it mandatory with a screeching halt to the gameplay. That's pretty bad but what's worse is your reward is non-existent. Its to continue the story. In every other Metroid game, when you find a secret you become more powerful and it was your choice to do so. It was your reward. But putting the brakes on the game progression just to make you find effectively buttons to push would be a poor choice now and was a poor choice back in 2001 too.
   
   
4. Extra BS: Metroid Prime 3 and Other M. I like Metroid's atmosphere and feeling of isolation on a hostile world. MP3 just pissed all over that. Other M also deserves the shit it gets for the Adam/Samus dialog and upgrade unlocks.

So with my own opinion on the detractors laid out, one might ask "Why the hell is this your favorite series again?". I love the exploration based gameplay, I love how the 2D games flow, I love the atmosphere, I love the world design and I love the power fantasy. When I first played Super Metroid, the idea of an open world platformer blew my little mind at the time. It made an impression that lasts with me to today, much like Link to the Past. So is nostalgia involved? Damn right it is! I would not put Super Metroid or any other Metroid game in front of any gamer I meet and say "This is the game for you.". But I would encourage playing and experiencing the games, if just a little, and leave it at that.

Some times its nice to just be left alone and find out what something is about.

 

[ChiefReginod]

The "before you disagree with me" line is an odd choice as you're defending your opinion and looking to discredit others before they've even disagreed. It comes off as inviting conversation and then pushing it away in the same post. If anything, I'd welcome those that haven't played much and may not have nostalgia involved. You can only have a first impression once after all.

Personally, I've completed every Metroid game many times over with exception to federation force (never played) and Other M (only 100%'d once). I replayed Prime again just a couple weeks ago even. Metroid is without a doubt my favorite game series. And that said? I wouldn't disagree with some of your points at all.

I would leave the NES/Famicom Metroid out of it the conversation because it was the first and just seems unfair to take a swing at the first attempt. I like the game but it is absolutely not something I would wheel out and say "Here's a game you should play in 2021!".

With the 2D games, I see a formula that is hard to evolve without losing what it is. I've enjoyed each successor in the series but there's always the feeling that it was never quite what I wanted from it (knowing full well I don't know what I really want from it). Hell, I actually enjoyed playing through Other M despite having many complaints about it. For me, these have never been difficult games outright. Instead, I see them as games about exploration, atmosphere and power fantasy. You start out weak but before long you're wrecking just about everything even on your first time through. The percentage at the end of the game invites you to seek out the rest of the items. Do you need them to beat the game? Hell no. You'll never use any of that extra ammo probably. But hey, its kinda fun to do. If you want to make the game hard or want a challenge, you can do that but it's not the game becoming hard at that point but rather a conscious choice of the player to make the game hard. I think that's to the credit of the game but not something that makes it amazing.

Now let's talk about Prime because I honestly think its the most interesting discussion. Prime is a very interesting series to me, I really enjoyed playing through them but I think the problems with the Prime games are among the most visible in the design.

1. Controls: The controls I feel are a product of the era. It's a time when lots of developers were trying to figure out the right way to do an FPS on console. A few got it right, some did okay, many did not. Metroid Prime I feel fits in a unique version of the middle. Rather than trying to make a traditional FPS, they changed the gameplay to suit the controls. It's a unique solution but can also been seen as a compromise from the start. There is no doubt that the action needs to slow down and simplify as a result though. I like the controls for what the game is but a fast paced and challenging action game it is certainly not. If you want to go full silly mode, look up PrimeHack, a build of dolphin where you can play the Prime games with mouse and keyboard. I did a playthrough recently and while I had fun, the enemies may as well never even have been there.
   
   
2. Backtracking: This is par for the course for Metroid and is part of the excitement is returning to an area to explore in a new way. Prime however bathes in this idea, engaging in it at times is either too much or the quality of the backtracking is too low. Part of the problem I think is that the pace and way you move in first-person is slow and not as fluid as 2D where you have speed booster, screw attacks, space jumps, etc. The "nintendo fetch quest" near the end of them (I call it Nintendo and not Metroid solely because of Wind Waker) pumps the brakes on the whole adventure. This leads into the next part.
   
   
3. Secrets, item collecting and power fantasy: This is where I feel the Prime series commits its worst sin. The aforementioned fetch quest takes the fun of exploration and secret finding and makes it mandatory with a screeching halt to the gameplay. That's pretty bad but what's worse is your reward is non-existent. Its to continue the story. In every other Metroid game, when you find a secret you become more powerful and it was your choice to do so. It was your reward. But putting the brakes on the game progression just to make you find effectively buttons to push would be a poor choice now and was a poor choice back in 2001 too.
   
   
4. Extra BS: Metroid Prime 3 and Other M. I like Metroid's atmosphere and feeling of isolation on a hostile world. MP3 just pissed all over that. Other M also deserves the shit it gets for the Adam/Samus dialog and upgrade unlocks.

So with my own opinion on the detractors laid out, one might ask "Why the hell is this your favorite series again?". I love the exploration based gameplay, I love how the 2D games flow, I love the atmosphere, I love the world design and I love the power fantasy. When I first played Super Metroid, the idea of an open world platformer blew my little mind at the time. It made an impression that lasts with me to today, much like Link to the Past. So is nostalgia involved? Damn right it is! I would not put Super Metroid or any other Metroid game in front of any gamer I meet and say "This is the game for you.". But I would encourage playing and experiencing the games, if just a little, and leave it at that.

Some times its nice to just be left alone and find out what something is about.

I agree with most of what you said and I appreciate that you can acknowledge the series' flaws. It's the same for me with the PS1 Tomb Raider games. I wouldn't recommend them to most people, but the formula hits the right spot for me despite the flaws and difficulty.

I think Metroid Prime in particular could have been better with just a few design tweaks. The overall formula probably could have even stayed the same. Just rebalance enemy encounters, use the second analog stick for aiming and make it so you don't have to change weapons/visors every few seconds. I've heard that the Wii version has better controls, but the problems really run deeper than that. I get that it's harder to do creative platforming sections in 3D, but it's literally just the same thing every time: jump and hope you guessed your position right since you can't look down mid-air. Even Other M was better in that regard.

All of that said, I still plan to continue through the rest of the Prime series. Most of these games are worth playing, but on this most recent play through of the older games the flaws just really stuck out, and looking at the past few in the series it just makes me really skeptical that Dread will be any better.

 

[ChiefReginod]

I'm going to rant a bit about Prime since it is, in my opinion, easily the worst game in the series.

Someone elsewhere made a perfect comparison between the Metroid and Zelda series. In Zelda, you usually see an explodable wall or a grapple point or some other visible sign that you need a specific item to access the area. In the classic Metroids you didn't always get that. You were forced to explore and assume that there might be something hidden even in areas that gave no such sign. This created a sense of wonder and mystery on every screen.

Metroid Prime is much more like a 3D Zelda where you see pretty much everything straight away. This kills the sense of exploration. There's actually very little exploring in the game, only backtracking. This is why the same people who didn't mind going back to look for items in the older games suddenly complained about it in Prime.

Now let's talk a bit about the identity crisis at the core of the game's problems. It's billed as more Adventure than FPS, and this is supposed to account for the controls not being geared toward FPS action, but literally an entire analog stick was devoted to switching weapons. Do you see the contradiction? If the action isn't central, why devote a whole analog stick just to changing weapons? And if it IS that important, why not use the second analogue for free-look? This was the single-dumbest design decision in a game absolutely filled with dumb design decisions.

I get the feeling that Prime is just one of those games that's long enough that when it first came out people felt like they got their next-gen money's worth. But present day, virtually no one recommends the GC version. Why then did it get so many 10/10 reviews?

This leads me in to why Dread is "probably" going to suck.

Those 10/10 reviews may seem harmless now, but it's been the same with every Metroid since then with the exception of Other M (though this got a lot of great reviews, too). So, Nintendo has gotten NOTHING but positive feedback for all of these shit design decisions, and this explains why some of those more boneheaded decisions have inexplicably stuck to present day. It's almost guaranteed that some of these things will make it into Dread as well. And why wouldn't they? No one's complained. Every change has been solid gold as far as Nintendo can tell.

 

[CeeDee]

People enjoy different things and have different tastes. Aspects of the game/series that you might think make it deeply flawed are aspects others may be okay with, or outright enjoy and appreciate. Not only that, but it's totally possible to enjoy a game you know is flawed. Even flawed games have enjoyable aspects. Your conclusions are yours alone and aren't objective or definitive.

As for my personal opinion, dear god I can't get into the series at all. I like Metroid though, he's a cool dude, I like it when he crawls

 

[crea]

I can only weigh my experience against that, Fusion and Zero are true masterpieces, I also played them back to back and had zero frustration (pun intended).
Super Metroid is slightly on the tough side at times, but still the best of them all regarding athmosphere and breakthrough creativity for the time released.

I played Metroid2 on gameboy like a crazy person as a kid, that one was slightly on the frustrating side with no map. But it still added to the game, to be lost and find your way in a maze where nothing seems certain.

 

[Taleweaver]

I just don't get why the series are named after the antagonists.

Or why those floating jellyfish are named 'metroids' in the first place.

Does it matter? No. But if you ask me, it's more relevant than what I think of the games assuming I've 100%-ed them in the first place.

Now before you disagree with me, I'm going to just say for no specific reason that I'm only going to read replies starting with the letter 'B'. I don't usually set these sorts of conditions, but if the OP can set fun rules before feeling an opinion worthy of replying to, then so can I.

 

[SG854]

I love the Metorid series. The discovery and not knowing what to do but finding your way, unlocking new areas that wasn't accessible before is great.

 

[ChiefReginod]

*flame shield power up*

Super Metroid isn't even a 10/10 game. It's an 8/10. Maybe an 8.5 at the absolute best, but I'm kind of leaning more toward a 7.8. The controls are glitchy. Shinesparking is either broken if you're honest or at the very least requires you to already understand their unintuitive intricacies to think it's even passable as a game mechanic. There's this recurring theme of needing to play a game for years on end in order to come to a point where you think it's not broken.

Wall jumps are the absolute epitome of this and I've even seen some apologists claiming that you have as much as a few seconds after hitting a wall to jump. In reality it practically needs to be frame-perfect. This would be fine as an optional thing, but they literally mapped out a whole save-trap section just to fuck with all the little kids who couldn't figure out how to do it. I can do it pretty consistently myself, but there are again a lot of really subtle things that you need to do just exactly right, and these little details can only be learned through trial and error over usually a lengthy period of time. Bad design. They fixed it in the later games.

The visor seems like a good idea but ultimately it just makes the player stop and scan everything in every room, which isn't exactly fun with how slowly the scan beam moves. They probably thought it would add to the sense of discovery, but really it just damaged the flow of the game and made scanning take up at least half of the play time (unless you've played the game for years, of course). Not very fun. And then they multiplied this by one thousand in Prime.

I know it seems like I'm just nitpicking, but why is it such a bad thing to point out flaws in "good" games anyway? A game can be good even if some parts of it are broken. Apologists support bad design decisions and this ruins franchises.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Now before you disagree with me, I'm going to just say for no specific reason that I'm only going to read replies starting with the letter 'B'. I don't usually set these sorts of conditions, but if the OP can set fun rules before feeling an opinion worthy of replying to, then so can I.

Brother, the only reason I added that stipulation was to keep away the scrubs who only ever save-stated through one or two games before coming here to convince me that they're the real experts. The only thing worse than fanboys supporting godawful design decisions are the ones who fanboy a series without even knowing it.

 

[SG854]

I rate Super Metroid 10/10. Great game great control. Wall jump is a time saver. Very well implemented and easy to pull off. I use it all the time to get items early.

 

[ChiefReginod]

I rate Super Metroid 10/10. Great game great control. Wall jump is a time saver. Very well implemented and easy to pull off. I use it all the time to get items early.

How many years have you been playing Super Metroid?

 

[SG854]

How many years have you been playing Super Metroid?

7

 

[ChiefReginod]

7

About 20 for me. It's a great game but I would never say the controls are perfect, least of all for a first time player. It's one of those things you have to warn new players about.

 

[SG854]

About 20 for me. It's a great game but I would never say the controls are perfect, least of all for a first time player. It's one of those things you have to warn new players about.

I prefer Zero Missions speed to Super Metroid

 

[catlover007]

I just don't get why the series are named after the antagonists.

because Alien isn't called Ripley.

 

[ChiefReginod]

Alien is a pretty cool lady.

 

[SG854]

why isn't Alien named Ripley?

Or Gremlins

His face is going to be red from embarrassment for that one

 

[Taleweaver]

because Alien isn't called Ripley.

Good point.

I guess I was just thinking too much into Nintendo 's line of thought. It's not super Bowser land/bros/world, king Dedede' s dream land or 'a Ganondorf to the past', so...

(Samus 2: return of the metroids kind of makes more sense to me as well, but again : that's just me)