Iran runs nuclear missile payload tests,
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shakirmoledina said:
you live in a artenative history or something ?
israel xpanded because they won those land in the war of jewish idenpendence so they manage to hold their land given to them by the UN BUT they gain even more land after they won the war so the other nations have to blame them self for been losers israel defended AND WON also you not may know this but the rest of the lands were also taken not by israel but by jordan wo took the west bank and egypt wo took the gaza dsitrict and they both dont let the palestinia have their own idenpendent goverment
Wow your kidding me right? For the first thing, your basically saying you want Israel to be wiped out of the planet and not the people? That doesn't even make sense, Israel is there countries as much as Tanzania is your country. You don't make any sense at all that's like me saying oh I want Iran to be wiped off the map but not the people. Um were do you expect the people to go? The Jews built Israel from being a crappy desert to how successful it is now. Were do you expect all the Jews to go we only have 1 Jewish country that they can practice there religion freely in.shakirmoledina said:
2nd: Learn your facts. Yes you are right that Israel was first given a share of Palestine. But the Arabs are the ones that were first to start fighting and killing the Jews just because they got there little land, and Israel won that war and got that rest of the land. Did you know that Russia still holds one of Germany's cities and didn't give the city back to them after the Soviet Union collapsed yet I never hear people talk about that.
I got something even better to counter that untrue claim.Valwin said:
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/
Read the actual quote part.
And no, only adultery people get stoned.
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is it correct to invade palestinian land while u have been assigned your own land in this present era? how many news report come that farmers and people are moved from their homes by israeli soldiers?
what is the population of palestine compared to israel? is it justifiable for the no. of isreali to live to that amount of land compared to palestinians?
its about how they took the land and for what reason?
if its about winning... then i will fight the whole world to make it mine (like Risk) although i dont need it and I will say I WON it hence i will decide how people should live. Is this justice, fairness and acceptable?
Jakob why did the arabs fight? is it because ah they have taken our land although its theirs but lets beat them cause we dont like them? Or was there oppression and expansion without reason happening? Its a thought and doesnt mean i am right. But this much I know, what Israel is using and doing to get more land is a clear indication of oppression and nothing less. The 6 day war clearly tells you who attacked who and for what reason One indication is here but you could say the author is biased
It is not true that Jews cannot practice their religion freely outside Israel. Look at this and tell me what is third on the list. It is not correct to say the world hates jews. The world HATES extremists be they muslims in the form of "muslim terrorists" or jews in the form of zionists.
The russian issue is purely political and forgotten. Here it is a case of oppression.
dickfour - I do not agree that Iran has encouraged so and I remember any time that Hizbullah has attacked anyone as terrorism but they were established to fight back the aggression of Israel especially to lebanon and its borders.
But yes, if the hostage taking was not beneficial in any way, I do not agree with it. It doesnt mean that I support Iran for WHATEVER it does, but is mostly does the right things. I do not know the background of their hostage taking but from this page, it might be something wrong. From what i heard on youtube, the americans were not hurt and the weak were strengthened. No harm was brought to the americans though the american operation failed and hurt many.
PS - I feel we are diverting from Iran having nuclear power to Israel's existence and so on. Expect a raul or vulnes any time soon
what is the population of palestine compared to israel? is it justifiable for the no. of isreali to live to that amount of land compared to palestinians?
its about how they took the land and for what reason?
if its about winning... then i will fight the whole world to make it mine (like Risk) although i dont need it and I will say I WON it hence i will decide how people should live. Is this justice, fairness and acceptable?
Jakob why did the arabs fight? is it because ah they have taken our land although its theirs but lets beat them cause we dont like them? Or was there oppression and expansion without reason happening? Its a thought and doesnt mean i am right. But this much I know, what Israel is using and doing to get more land is a clear indication of oppression and nothing less. The 6 day war clearly tells you who attacked who and for what reason One indication is here but you could say the author is biased
It is not true that Jews cannot practice their religion freely outside Israel. Look at this and tell me what is third on the list. It is not correct to say the world hates jews. The world HATES extremists be they muslims in the form of "muslim terrorists" or jews in the form of zionists.
The russian issue is purely political and forgotten. Here it is a case of oppression.
dickfour - I do not agree that Iran has encouraged so and I remember any time that Hizbullah has attacked anyone as terrorism but they were established to fight back the aggression of Israel especially to lebanon and its borders.
But yes, if the hostage taking was not beneficial in any way, I do not agree with it. It doesnt mean that I support Iran for WHATEVER it does, but is mostly does the right things. I do not know the background of their hostage taking but from this page, it might be something wrong. From what i heard on youtube, the americans were not hurt and the weak were strengthened. No harm was brought to the americans though the american operation failed and hurt many.
PS - I feel we are diverting from Iran having nuclear power to Israel's existence and so on. Expect a raul or vulnes any time soon
First thing the palestinians could live in Jordan which is actually PALESTINE. Second thing the palestinians could live in Israel if they want to they don't have to move, they rather live there were the country is stable then live in any other arab country were the economy/country isn't stable.shakirmoledina said:
You could say that to any country. I can say that to the USA how they ACTUALLY TOOK Texas, California, Arizona, from Mexico yet no one complains about that. Or how Russia took over all those old Soviet republics and forced them to not believe in God otherwise killed them, sent all the Jews to Siberia were they died from the cold weather, forced all the other republics to talk in Russian, etc.
I really get the feeling that European Socialists don;t get the danger that they are in from Islamic militants. They are demographically strong and old Europe in demographically weak. Europe will fall, it will be overrun by a new dark ages the same as after Rome fell. All the enlightened Socialists who are embracing these militants are going to wake up one day to homosexual executions, women being stoned and sharia law.
Valwin said:
You make the classical confusion between zionist's fears and the universal's facts.
During the 2005 speech, iran's president NEVER said the words: "Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face."
Here are the facts:
-He said in farsi:
" ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??? "
or
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
-In english: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time"
-word to word: "Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from)."
All this is confirmed by the traduction of the agency MEMRI (founded by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-born, American political scientist. ):
""'Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise."
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1510.htm
The NYT confirms the wrong translation repeated by the media:
"October, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has been known for one statement above all. As translated by news agencies at the time, it was that Israel "should be wiped off the map." Iran's nuclear program and sponsorship of militant Muslim groups are rarely mentioned without reference to the infamous map remark.
...
But is that what Mr. Ahmadinejad said? And if so, was it a threat of war? For months, a debate among Iran specialists over both questions has been intensifying. It starts as a dispute over translating Persian but quickly turns on whether the United States (with help from Israel) is doing to Iran what some believe it did to Iraq — building a case for military action predicated on a faulty premise.
"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian," remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the University of Michigan and critic of American policy who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted. "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran has not "attacked another country aggressively for over a century," he said in an e-mail exchange, "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."
...
Jonathan Steele, a columnist for the left-leaning Guardian newspaper in London, recently laid out the case this way: "The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that 'this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,' just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished. He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The 'page of time' phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon."
Mr. Steele added that neither Khomeini nor Mr. Ahmadinejad suggested that Israel's "vanishing" was imminent or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about. "But the propaganda damage was done," he wrote, "and Western hawks bracket the Iranian president with Hitler as though he wants to exterminate Jews."
If Mr. Steele and Mr. Cole are right, not one word of the quotation — Israel should be wiped off the map — is accurate. "
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinre...onner.html?_r=1
The facts are stubborn...
Still no source for your accusation?
PS: peres's answer don't raise that kind of doubt on the traduction
"the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map,
...
Teheran is making a mockery of the international community's efforts to solve the crisis surrounding Iran's nuclear program.
...
Iran presents a danger to the entire world, not just to us,"
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/world/200...ped-off-the-map
And when we read haaretz it's clear that:
-it is israel who is threatening iran and the US is pushing to moderate the zionists's war desire.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/...finitely-1.1936
-this threat is not not a bluff according to danny ayalon
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-threat-...-fm-says-1.4639
-and the iranian threat is exagerated according to ehud barak or Gen. Uzi Eilam
http://www.haaretz.com/news/barak-iran-pos...israel-1.284529
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6982447.ece
Its funny how I always hear mostly Iranians talk in the subway train in New York millions of bad stuff about the US. Just today I went to manhattan with my Dad on train and some Iranian was talking to his someone in farsi about how Al-Qauda messaged the US about how they will do car bombings, and his friend said hopefully that will happen. And I understood them because I could understand farsi a little, and my dad could talk in Farsi (From Uzbekistan) and the Tajik language is very close to Farsi.dickfour said:
Its funny how we are now discussing this topic after that event in the morning today.
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i think we have set forth our arguments (and it seems many were spectators). Only time will tell what the situation will develop into.
As i said, opinions differ and some hate/like in emotion or ethnic or religious support. It finally comes down to our evaluation of the situation and many a times you cannot change it no matter what.
If I am not mistaken, all of us arguing (considerably) here are monotheists so let our single/same God decide what is going to happen.
PS - I kinda felt sad that ppl here know farsi and I do not... ah will someone teach me!
As i said, opinions differ and some hate/like in emotion or ethnic or religious support. It finally comes down to our evaluation of the situation and many a times you cannot change it no matter what.
If I am not mistaken, all of us arguing (considerably) here are monotheists so let our single/same God decide what is going to happen.
PS - I kinda felt sad that ppl here know farsi and I do not... ah will someone teach me!
Shuji1987 said:Yeah, cuz that wouldn't kill anyone in Iran right??coolness said:
Silly Americans thinking the trade centers collapsing was a world tragedy and the world needs to be reminded off every year. Just move the fuck on, nobody you see grieving for all the people that were killed when America assaulted Afghanistan (which surpass the numbers by multitudes).
And yes, you could say I hate americans.
Whoa... chill. I know people who died there. Not cool dude. You may hate American's (and i do respect your opinion as it is your opinion) but that was overly harsh.
Yeah and I literally saw both towers fall in front of my eyes, and my mom was working about 3 blocks away from the towers. We weren't able to reach contact with her about 8 hours and then finally the cell phones started to work again and she came home the next day, she went to her uncles house in Brooklyn because she found some woman that were on a car going to Brooklyn that were willing to give her a free ride there. All trains and buses were closed. We live in Queens btw. Was a really scary day for me.sergster1 said:Shuji1987 said:Yeah, cuz that wouldn't kill anyone in Iran right??coolness said:
Silly Americans thinking the trade centers collapsing was a world tragedy and the world needs to be reminded off every year. Just move the fuck on, nobody you see grieving for all the people that were killed when America assaulted Afghanistan (which surpass the numbers by multitudes).
And yes, you could say I hate americans.
Whoa... chill. I know people who died there. Not cool dude. You may hate American's but that was overly harsh.
EDIT: Talking about Iran, you should check out how ignorant this country is: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/New...41#.TmrIe9QweSo
In another interview the president said that the Holocaust never happened too.
Jakob95 said:
yes this along should tell you that iran i nuts how can they say it never happen it blows my mind
Valwin said:
Can you please report one thing that he really said? (People use sourced quote into brackets to avoid this kind of desagreement)
The iranian president never deny the killings of european jews but he talks about a "myth".
"...
A final word is due about Mr. Ahmadinejad’s "Holocaust denial". Holocaust denial is a very sensitive issue in the West, where it notoriously serves anti-Semitism. Elsewhere in the world, however, fogginess about the Holocaust traces more to a sheer lack of information. One might think there is plenty of information about the Holocaust worldwide, but this is a mistake. (Lest we be snooty, Americans show the same startling insularity from general knowledge when, for example, they live to late adulthood still not grasping that US forces killed at least two million Vietnamese [one 911/year since 2001 in afghanistan, one million in irak since the 90's...] and believing that anyone who says so is anti-American. Most French people have not yet accepted that their army slaughtered a million Arabs in Algeria [+2 millions or 1/3 of the population to conquer algeria in the 19th or 100 000 in madagascar in 1947 and 200 000 bamilékés in cameroon in the 60's...].)
Skepticism about the Holocaust narrative has started to take hold in the Middle East not because people hate Jews but because that narrative is deployed to argue that Israel has a right to "defend itself" by attacking every country in its vicinity. Middle East publics are so used to western canards legitimizing colonial or imperial takeovers that some wonder if the six-million-dead argument is just another myth or exaggerated tale. It is dismal that Mr. Ahmadinejad seems to belong to this sector.
Still, Mr. Ahmadinejad did not say what the US Subcommittee on Intelligence Policy reported that he said: "They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets." He actually said, "In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets." This language targets the myth of the Holocaust, not the Holocaust itself – i.e., "myth" as "mystique", or what has been done with the Holocaust. Other writers, including important Jewish theologians, have criticized the "cult" or "ghost" of the Holocaust without denying that it happened. In any case, Mr. Ahmadinejad’s main message has been that, if the Holocaust happened as Europe says it did, then Europe, and not the Muslim world, is responsible for it.
Why is Mr. Ahmadinejad being so systematically misquoted and demonized? Need we ask? If the world believes that Iran is preparing to attack Israel, then the US or Israel can claim justification in attacking Iran first. On that agenda, the disinformation campaign about Mr. Ahmadinejad’s statements has been bonded at the hip to a second set of lies: promoting Iran’s (nonexistent) nuclear weapon programme.
.."
VIRGINIA TILLEY
http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/08/28/put...inejad-s-mouth/
Or here
"...
Williams: There is something you said that upset and scared a lot of people. It upset a lot of Jews in the United States and around the world when you called the Holocaust a myth. There are people, some people I know who escaped Hitler's reign. There is research. There are scholars who can teach you about it. And yet, you've expressed doubt about the Holocaust. Why?
Ahmadinejad: I've answered three of your questions on this. You know that I belong to the university. I'm an academician by nature. I'm interested in having a scientific approach to all events. But we've chosen three questions. The first question was: In the first World War, over 60 — In the second World War, over 60 million people lost their lives. They were all human beings. Why is it that only a select group of those who were killed have become so prominent and important?
Williams: Because of the difference humankind draws between warfare and genocide.
Ahmadinejad: Do you think that the 60 million who lost their lives were all at the result of warfare alone? There were two million that were part of the military at the time, perhaps altogether, 50 million civilians with no roles in the war — Christians, Muslims. They were all killed. The second and more important question that I raised was, if this event happened, and if it is a historical event, then we should allow everyone to research it and study it. The more research and studies are done, the more we can become aware of the realities that happened. We still leave open to further studies absolute knowledge of science or math. Historical events are always subject to revisions, and reviews and studies. We're still revising our thoughts about what happened over thousands of years ago. Why is it that those who ask questions are persecuted? Why is every word so sensitivity or such prohibition on further studies on the subject? Where as we can openly question God, the prophet, concepts such as freedom and democracy? And the third question that I raised in this regard: if this happened, where did it happen? Did the Palestinian people have anything to do with it? Why should the Palestinians pay for it now? Five million displaced Palestinian people is what I'm talking about. Over 60 years of living under threat. Losing the lives of thousands of dear ones. And homes that are destroyed on a daily basis over people's heads. You might argue that the Jews have the right to have a government. We're not against that. But where? At a place where their people were — several people will vote for them, and where they can govern.
Williams: Yes, but…
Ahmadinejad: Not at the cost of displacing a whole nation. And occupying the whole territory.
..."
Brian Williams on NBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14912050/
Ahmadinejad isn't an angel, like ALL the leaders of this world, but a critic make sense only if it's true, if not, it's defamation.
You will never understand any conflict if you don't try to adopt the point of view of both sides. So i invite you to read the full interview on MSNBC or to read the iranian news, seeing that you already know the ultra-zionists ones.
PS zionist will always make me laugh
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