Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

[Xzi]

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit that laws and norms created in the 1800s might be outdated and ass-backwards. The constitution doesn't even have an equal rights amendment (ERA) for WOMEN yet, let alone the LGBTQ community. You can interpret it as granting equal rights to women, but nowhere is it written, so at current it can just as easily be interpreted to be exclusionary.

 

[Lacius]

No, I actually mean lash back which means to fight back. I made a stupid mistake earlier. Take your victory there and stop trying to use it as the basis of your argument. What's next? Spelling?

I don't entirely understand what's going on here, so I'm going to sidestep it.

Clearly some people feel the need for straight pride, but you dismiss their concerns as unimportant

You bet. See above for why.

even advocate violating the group's rights simply because you don't agree.

I never did this.

Men are not women. Respectfully, I suggest you learn what a penis is.

A person's gender identity doesn't necessarily comport with one's physiological sex. So, for example, a trans woman can have a penis. Respectfully, the idea that the world is as black and white as you make it out to be is a pretty immature worldview. I mean that literally, not insultingly.

That's kinda what started this entire conversation, so yea, I'm going to continue to refuse a difference between sex and gender.

That sounds like a personal problem, because we don't even have to use the labels sex and gender. You should be able to understand if I use words like identity and physiology instead.

I'm really not invested in this enough to take the time to find quotes and post them here. Its clear we aren't going to agree on anything here, really not sure what the point is any more. Just check around social media, primarily Twitter.

Regardless, I'm noticing the irony is lost on you here.

Not what YOU'RE talking about maybe.... not sure who you think "we" is.

Are you unaware that @Damon_girl and I were having a conversation that only pertained to the topic of the historical uses of the words sex and gender? I'm starting to believe you're not reading my posts.

And yes, yes I am. Check any 1960 birth certificate. Pretty sure helicopter isn't on any of them.

1. Intersex people existed in the 1960s, regardless of what was put onto one's birth certificate.
2. Sex and gender are two different things, so what was put onto the birth certificate isn't necessarily relevant to one's gender identity. If you don't want to acknowledge that, then all you need to know is that physiology is not the same thing as one's identity. One is the body, and one is the brain. What was put onto one's birth certificate related to one's body, not the baby's identity.

 

[MadMageKefka]

I don't entirely understand what's going on here, so I'm going to sidestep it.


You bet. See above for why.


I never did this.


A person's gender identity doesn't necessarily comport with one's physiological sex. So, for example, a trans woman can have a penis. Respectfully, the idea that the world is as black and white as you make it out to be is a pretty immature worldview. I mean that literally, not insultingly.


That sounds like a personal problem, because we don't even have to use the labels sex and gender. You should be able to understand if I use words like identity and physiology instead.


Regardless, I'm noticing the irony is lost on you here.


Are you unaware that @Damon_girl and I were having a conversation that only pertained to the topic of the historical uses of the words sex and gender? I'm starting to believe you're not reading my posts.

1. Intersex people existed in the 1960s, regardless of what was put onto one's birth certificate.
2. Sex and gender are two different things, so what was put onto the birth certificate isn't necessarily relevant to one's gender identity. If you don't want to acknowledge that, then all you need to know is that physiology is not the same thing as one's identity. One is the body, and one is the brain.

Even if I accepted your logic, it WAS NOT this way in 1960. That much is fact. No idea what you're getting at.

 

[Lacius]

Even if I accepted your logic, it WAS NOT this way in 1960. That much is fact. No idea what you're getting at.

What was not this way in 1960, and how is it relevant to the conversation I was having?

 

[Lacius]

gender. Like beating a dead horse.

Please be more specific and don't get catty because you're using one-word responses.

If you're saying that, in the 1960s, the word gender wasn't used to mean one's identity as opposed to one's biological sex, you are mistaken. The distinction between the words sex and gender was popularized in the 1960s.

 

[cots]

I've still yet to see this unidentifiable genitalia you keep talking about, thus why I want to be shown. How can I explain something you cant even prove exists? You're the one claiming it does, not me.

You can claim bigfoot exists, you can show me documents of people studying bigfoot, but until I see a picture of bigfoot, or see/meet one, Im going to assume he's made up.

Dude, you've been at it for 4 pages. He clearly can't provide proof of a third sex. You got the color blue? How many color blues are there? Well, there's one color blue. You got different shades of blue, but only 1 blue. He's not going to be able to answer your question and I don't think he's even going to try as he clearly is playing word games to dance around the fact that he refuses to answer the question. Which, there is no question. You have a male and female. End of debate.

I could imagine this guy, with all of his knowledge, going to the store to buy a cd card, to find out they only carry 32GB and 64GB, but arguing with the store clerk that he refuses to purchase either one because there is a rare chance that a 51GB was produced in error and is sitting in the back of the store.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Glyptofane Once again can I point out that to be even considered for GRS you need to be screened for a minimum of two years by a number of psychiatrists and doctors then after that you have to convince a independent panel of 5 doctors that you DO NOT have a mental illness who must all unanimously agree that in fact YOU DO NOT HAVE a mental illness before you can be put forward for GRS.

That doesn't change the fact that people end up rejecting the assignment and can't go back. Oops! My bad!

 

[AmandaRose]

gender. Like beating a dead horse.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Define+irony

Where did I say I used irony

gender. Like beating a dead horse.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Define+irony

sarcasm
noun [ U ] UK
the use of words to criticize something or someone in a humorous way:

Says nothing about irony. Look at the key part of that where it says noun then UK.
It appears the word has a different definition in the uk to America.

 

[cots]

Its not a counter protest to the protest itself, but a protest to the message specifying a single group. The idea is that all walks of life deserve respect, not one particular one. Here you say that straight groups being proud shows a negative view on gay, so by that same logic, wouldn't positive views on being gay show negatively on straight? Oh, but you say its because the straight group isn't marginalized. So because one group is in a different situation, they aren't entitled to the same things? Sounds like discrimination to me... Who are you to say if someone is allowed to feel marginalized or not? This logic is everything that is keeping us from making any real progress in the world. Even when fighting for equality we remain divided. Its insane.

It's still bias and hate, but it's coming from a group that should be allowed to hate and show bias because they had the same thing happen to them, which in turn is only going to produce more hate and bias. Doesn't seem like any solution to me, but it makes people "feel better" in the short term, and that's the only important matter, right? I see @Lacius is justifying the hate and bias coming from one side, but it's okay because "it's the right side".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If this is the one I'm thinking of, it's no longer a "pride parade" when you bring guns. At that point it's a threat.

What a person is carrying in their pocket at a parade doesn't change the meaning of the parade. Nice low balling shot at guns. Next!

 

[AmandaRose]

That doesn't change the fact that people end up rejecting the assignment and can't go back. Oops! My bad!

so they can't go back then what is gender reversal surgery then? Plus the reversal rate is so low its not even worth discussing.

For instance
A 2018 survey of WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) surgeons found that approximately 0.3% of patients who underwent GRS surgery later underwent reversal surgery.

 

[Chary]

Has anyone considered that we actually listen to the TITLE of this thread, and actually, I don't know, NOT name-call people, or spiral into bickering contests that take personal potshots at each other? If you can't follow basic forum etiquette and decency towards each other while having a discussion, then either this thread will be locked, preventing people from actually being able to discuss the topic, or warns will be given out.

 

[cots]

so they can't go back then what is gender reversal surgery then? Plus the reversal rate is so low its not even worth discussing.

For instance
A 2018 survey of WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) surgeons found that approximately 0.3% of patients who underwent GRS surgery later underwent reversal surgery.

How many simply changed their mind that they didn't want to identify as female and wanted their original johnny back, but didn't want someone else's? Sure, it's rare, and I'm glad they spend 2 years giving a person enough time to decide it might not be the best choice, but I'd really hate to discover I made a mistake after the fact if I were the person losing my sexual organ.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Has anyone considered that we actually listen to the TITLE of this thread, and actually, I don't know, NOT name-call people, or spiral into bickering contests that take personal potshots at each other? If you can't follow basic forum etiquette and decency towards each other while having a discussion, then either this thread will be locked, preventing people from actually being able to discuss the topic, or warns will be given out.

I'm sorry, as I've come to the conclusion about the original topic matter and was just replying to what other people brought up after that fact. I figured it was better to discuss the stuff other people brought up here instead of making a new thread for each subject.

 

[Lacius]

Dude, you've been at it for 4 pages. He clearly can't provide proof of a third sex.

1. I was trying to clarify our usages of the words sex and gender. It was a more pressing issue, since not doing so would have meant the end of that particular conversation.
2. Some intersex individuals are neither male nor female. That should have sufficed.
3. I later provided what he wanted in more detail, and he said he would look into it later. You're a little behind.

You got the color blue? How many color blues are there? Well, there's one color blue. You got different shades of blue, but only 1 blue.

There are more kinds of blue aside from the different shades, so that's a poor analogy. You're forgetting about hue and chroma, in addition to shade. The topics of sex and gender, like many other topics, aren't simple enough to be completely black and white (or rather, black and blue).

He's not going to be able to answer your question and I don't think he's even going to try as he clearly is playing word games to dance around the fact that he refuses to answer the question. Which, there is no question. You have a male and female. End of debate.

1. I fulfilled the request.
2. Intersex individuals exist.

I could imagine this guy, with all of his knowledge, going to the store to buy a cd card, to find out they only carry 32GB and 64GB, but arguing with the store clerk that he refuses to purchase either one because there is a rare chance that a 51GB was produced in error and is sitting in the back of the store.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this comment was. It's not even close to accurate.

It's still bias and hate, but it's coming from a group that should be allowed to hate and show bias because they had the same thing happen to them, which in turn is only going to produce more hate and bias. Doesn't seem like any solution to me, but it makes people "feel better" in the short term, and that's the only important matter, right? I see @Lacius is justifying the hate and bias coming from one side, but it's okay because "it's the right side".

The easiest way to end a conversation with me is by misrepresenting my views. I don't think anybody should be barred from holding a parade, but I'm acknowledging that straight pride is unnecessary, misses the point of pride, and historically comes from a place of hate. I'm not sure what's hateful about that, but you're free to try to spin it whatever way you want.

 

[AmandaRose]

How many simply changed their mind that they didn't want to identify as female and wanted their original johnny back, but didn't want someone else's? Sure, it's rare, and I'm glad they spend 2 years giving a person enough time to decide it might not be the best choice, but I'd really hate to discover I made a mistake after the fact if I were the person losing my sexual organ.

Again 0.3% lol its so rare it's not even worth worrying about. The 0.3 should never have been allowed to get that far and that is the fault of the people screening them.

 

[cots]

Again 0.3% lol its so rare it's not even worth worrying about. The 0.3 should never have been allowed to get that far and that is the fault of the people screening them.

Well, the trans people are also a minority so why even bother addressing their concerns? *Yawn*, I'll pulling your chain here. I mean my original statement as a light hearted joke. You know, because that situation (deciding you don't want to identify as a female anymore after your surgery) would really, really, really, suck. I'm allowed to make jokes right?

 

[MadMageKefka]

Where did I say I used irony

sar·casm
/ˈsärˌkazəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
   "his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment"
   synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, satire, irony, scorn, sneering, scoffing, gibing, taunting; More

I'm allowed to make jokes right?

Only if you're not a white, heterosexual male.

 

[cots]

Only if you're not a white, heterosexual male.

Nope, not this week. I'm identifying as a Lebanese squirrel, but haven't decided on what color I want to be yet. Give me two more years to figure it out.

 

[Damon_girl]

So I can make jokes since I'm a real female. Yay

 

[cots]

So I can make jokes since I'm a real female. Yay

Well, technically (jokes aside), I'm not a white heterosexual male.

 

[Damon_girl]

Nope, not this week. I'm identifying as a Lebanese squirrel, but haven't decided on what color I want to be yet. Give me two more years to figure it out.

I'm thinking about identifying as a vampire in a few years. I mean that would be cool, right? Way better than a squirrel.

 

[cots]

I'm thinking about identifying as a vampire in a few years. I mean that would be cool, right? Way better than a squirrel.

That's more realistic too as there are people that actually do identify as vampires, don't go outside until it's dark, drink blood, etc ... I mentioned the squirrel because of this -> https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-man-attack-squirrel-meth-aggressive

On the real:

I guess the thread has veered off topic, but I've decided that phobic behavior isn't simply disliking something. I welcome other peoples opinions on the matter, but I'm done with conversation related to deciding whether or not it is, and since chary stated we must stay on topic then I suppose I'm done posting here.