California Court SHUTS DOWN Transgender Pronoun Law

[Plasmaster09]

*Snip!*

You're not wrong. I read through that fetid doorstopper of a counterargument, and it can be summarized as:
-You're entitled because... you just are? (tautology)
-Research bad because some research might be wrong, so any research can't be trusted (flagrant violation of common sense and basic logic)
-You fall under the gender binary because I say so (bullshit)
-I refuse to realize the issue being discussed here is deliberate misgendering and the like, not accidental (refusal to realize the solution to not knowing someone's pronouns is to ask them, and the solution to being a transphobic asshole is not being a transphobic asshole)
-You're dangerous for being different in a way that does not detract from you being a human being that deserves equal treatment because... once again, I'm not even going to put effort into being a bigot (see above)
-Victim-blaming (victim-blaming)
-You're calling "unsuspecting people" transphobic, apparently (see above- a combination of victim-blaming and deliberate ignorance)
-Three gallons of condescending nonsense
Yeah, it's not worth reading. That's two minutes of my life I'll never get back.

EDIT: Response to a deleted post, but I’ve chosen to leave it unaltered since it at least lists counter points. -Foxi4

 

[smf]

The same people who want to be "adressed correctls" seldom are able to give others the same benefit of doubt.
Nor do they have any understanding for the effect that decades of stupid socalisation have on your minds ability to switch "pronouns" or - anything - at will.

I don't know about you, but the people I know who choose their own pronouns are quite tolerant.

They are less worried about the people who occasionally slip up & a bit more upset about the people who scream in their faces "I refuse to call you what you want, you disturbed faggot".

But being trans doesn't stop someone from being an asshole, same as someone who isn't trans can be an asshole too.

 

[subcon959]

Genuine question out of interest, does the pronoun issue exist in other languages/cultures or is it only an English-speaking thing?

 

[Deleted member 560282]

Genuine question out of interest, does the pronoun issue exist in other languages/cultures or is it only an English-speaking thing?

As far as I can tell, here in Spanish speaking countries we have a big dilemma with "inclusive language" cause of the way our language work

 

[RocaBOT]

French and many other languages with gendered pronouns as the main way of pointing to people have the same issue. Not all of them have an "historic" neutral like singular they in English even, which makes it worse at times (and that's not even inclusive of people that fell neutral doesn't help better represent their identity then the existing gendered pronouns, to tell you how deep the thing could spread). A single neutral pronoun that does not include or exclude anyone by design would be far easier to handle tbh, but hey, we do with what we're given

 

[Haloman800]

I'm a cis male, so no, I am not a woman. However, there is a difference between one's biological sex (which isn't itself binary) and one's gender identity, and they often don't comport with one another.

Glad to see you agree that trans "women" are biological men. This is the first sensical thing you've posted :^)

I don’t think @Lacius is transgender, so that’s not exactly a concern for him. That doesn’t exclude him from the conversation, or from having an opinion, or from stating that there is a distinction between biological sex and how one chooses to present themselves to the world.

I am aware.

 

[RocaBOT]

Why the quotation marks? Aside from being a jerk obviously, I mean. What does it cost you to treat people with a minimal amount of decency, of all things, when you most certainly expect them to be civil as well and not shove their own shit on your face? It's not like we're depriving you of anything or whatnot...

 

[Esjay131]

Glad to see you agree that trans "women" are biological men. This is the first sensical thing you've posted :^)

I am aware.

Careful not to cut yourself on all that edge

 

[Lacius]

Glad to see you agree that trans "women" are biological men. This is the first sensical thing you've posted :^)

I am aware.

Transgender people have a gender identity that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth, yes. That doesn't mean that a trans woman, for example, isn't a woman. Do you have a point?

 

[The Catboy]

Glad to see you agree that trans "women" are biological men. This is the first sensical thing you've posted :^)

I am aware.

Try to stretch before making a reach like that again

 

[Vergeeley]

You're not wrong. I read through that fetid doorstopper of a counterargument, and it can be summarized as:
-You're entitled because... you just are? (tautology)
-Research bad because some research might be wrong, so any research can't be trusted (flagrant violation of common sense and basic logic)
-You fall under the gender binary because I say so (bullshit)
-I refuse to realize the issue being discussed here is deliberate misgendering and the like, not accidental (refusal to realize the solution to not knowing someone's pronouns is to ask them, and the solution to being a transphobic asshole is not being a transphobic asshole)
-You're dangerous for being different in a way that does not detract from you being a human being that deserves equal treatment because... once again, I'm not even going to put effort into being a bigot (see above)
-Victim-blaming (victim-blaming)
-You're calling "unsuspecting people" transphobic, apparently (see above- a combination of victim-blaming and deliberate ignorance)
-Three gallons of condescending nonsense

It works for both sides so your countercounteragrument can be summarized as well:
- You're stupid bad because you say these things and that's because you're stupid and ignorant that makes you stupid
I would suggest you take this kind of "counteragrumenting" to 4chan or something. The guy literally explains his point, you twist it without explaining your own.

Yeah, it's not worth reading. That's two minutes of my life I'll never get back.

I'm pretty sure those two minutes were worthless anyway so don't worry.

Why the quotation marks? Aside from being a jerk obviously, I mean. What does it cost you to treat people with a minimal amount of decency, of all things, when you most certainly expect them to be civil as well and not shove their own shit on your face? It's not like we're depriving you of anything or whatnot...

It's not a problem if they just ask. Heck, I used to ask people to call me "she" at some point in my life and nobody had problems with that. I just didn't get mad if someone dared to "misgender" me. (Until I learned that the whole purpose of gender is to switch pronouns and do things of opposite sex which you can do without it whatsoever)

 

[The Catboy]

It works for both sides so your countercounteragrument can be summarized as well:
- You're stupid bad because you say these things and that's because you're stupid and ignorant that makes you stupid
I would suggest you take this kind of "counteragrumenting" to 4chan or something. The guy literally explains his point, you twist it without explaining your own.

I'm pretty sure those two minutes were worthless anyway so don't worry.

It's not a problem if they just ask. Heck, I used to ask people to call me "she" at some point in my life and nobody had problems with that. I just didn't get mad if someone dared to "misgender" me. (Until I learned that the whole purpose of gender is to switch pronouns and do things of opposite sex which you can do without it whatsoever)

I did end up reading that post and it really wasn’t worth wasting my time. Getting mad and trying to police my identity without asking for clarification. The legal and medical handling around someone like me is actually kind of interesting because I am a legally treated like a trans a person but my medicine and actual medical treatment is very different from most trans people. It’s actually kind of interesting and a shame that it wasn’t expanded upon at the time.

You can switch pronouns and not have to change your life. Experimenting with your gender, pronouns, etc. doesn’t come with the requirement of major life changes, unless you want it to.

 

[Plasmaster09]

It works for both sides so your countercounteragrument can be summarized as well:
- You're stupid bad because you say these things and that's because you're stupid and ignorant that makes you stupid
I would suggest you take this kind of "counteragrumenting" to 4chan or something. The guy literally explains his point, you twist it without explaining your own.

I'm pretty sure those two minutes were worthless anyway so don't worry.

It's not a problem if they just ask. Heck, I used to ask people to call me "she" at some point in my life and nobody had problems with that. I just didn't get mad if someone dared to "misgender" me. (Until I learned that the whole purpose of gender is to switch pronouns and do things of opposite sex which you can do without it whatsoever)

...I literally already gave my own point, etc.
Please backread before you reply.
Also... what? The purpose... of gender... what???
I genuinely can't even tell what you're trying to say there. Gender is a concept, not a tool to be utilized- you must have it confused with something, but I can't figure out what.

 

[Drak0rex]

There are only 2 genders, male and female. Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. The fact that this is even an issue just goes to show how far humanity has fallen.

 

[The Catboy]

There are only 2 genders, male and female. Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. The fact that this is even an issue just goes to show how far humanity has fallen.

I didn’t realize science progressing past your middle school understanding of human sex and gender is the fall of humanity

 

[Dakitten]

There are only 2 genders, male and female. Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. The fact that this is even an issue just goes to show how far humanity has fallen.

Y'know, everything else aside, folk being intersex DOES happen, right? I mean, you're obviously dead wrong and bigoted aside from this simple fact and refuse to see reason, but even playing your own game, you're still wrong. You should stop "falling" and blaming it on humanity.

 

[Drak0rex]

I didn’t realize science progressing past your middle school understanding of human sex and gender is the fall of humanity

I didn't realize people suffering from gender dysphoria, hacking off their genitals because they don't know which bathroom to use, and then constantly seeking attention and special treatment for it was considered science

 

[AmandaRose]

I didn't realize people suffering from gender dysphoria, hacking off their genitals because they don't know which bathroom to use, and then constantly seeking attention and special treatment for it was considered science

The generalisation in your post is simply amazing.

Not all trans people have gender dysphoria.

Not all trans people have GRS (oh and most of us know what toilets to use thank you very much)

Not all trans people look for attention

And most of us don't want special treatment. We just want to be treated the same as CIS people.

 

[Drak0rex]

Y'know, everything else aside, folk being intersex DOES happen, right? I mean, you're obviously dead wrong and bigoted aside from this simple fact and refuse to see reason, but even playing your own game, you're still wrong. You should stop "falling" and blaming it on humanity.

You're talking about a freak occurrence in humans that accounts for a fraction of a percent of the population. And just because someone has a view that you don't like doesn't make them a bigot. I don't think you're less of a human being because of the weird shit you do behind closed doors, I just have no desire to be aware of it.

 

[The Catboy]

I didn't realize people suffering from gender dysphoria, hacking off their genitals because they don't know which bathroom to use, and then constantly seeking attention and special treatment for it was considered science

None of that is required to be trans and your transphobia is wrong. Actual science disagrees and it has for decades now, so there’s no debate here, you are just wrong.
Here’s a post with just a fraction of the sources showing that you are wrong. Trans people deserve respect and science agrees. I am more than willing to bet that you can’t provide any recent peer-reviewed papers to counter these points.

Ok, some are a bit dated but the research hasn't really changed since those publications and is still commonly cited
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10843193/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18980961/
https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/155/suppl_1/1550107.xml
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19341803/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20562024/
https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(15)30695-0/pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6400230/

You are preaching to the choir in regards to the misuse of that phrases and issues with the trans community. Unfortunately, I think the trans community wants a quick retort like how transphobes have, "There is only 2 gender," the trans community wants something like that. And just like the commonly used phrases from transphobes, the ones we came up with were mostly incorrect and invalidated due to the nature of omitting details.
As for my responses, I do agree that I could go about them in a better way and refine them.