Another Orlando shooting

[smile72]

Oh cmon...

I know you did your best.

 

[Quantumcat]

Not true. In many states it's actually smarter. Especially as many states have stand your ground laws. Um no..I've owned quite a few guns actually. But I should explain further I mean if you know the person is dangerous ofc. You don't just shoot randomly ofc. At one point I had 7 or so. I'm a great gun owner well former gun owner

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You know Europe isn't perfect right? And that there are a lot of well trained gun owners in the U.S.. Yes there are some who shouldn't own a gun but there's nothing that can be done.

I knew there wouldn't be much point arguing. Gun lovers will always be gun lovers, stats and logic bedamned

If guns DO make you safer, think about this - the US has many more murders per capita than anywhere else. If each of those guns make it a bit safer, imagine how incredibly unsafe it would be without them! Maybe people would just start randomly dropping dead every minute?? Thank god for those guns! Maybe you should get some more? The government should mandate that everybody own at least three guns!

I'm glad to live in a place that is so amazingly safe that it can have a third as many murders (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/oecd-homicide-rates-chart-2015-6?r=US&IR=T) with 100th as many guns (made that last number up)! Maybe if we got more guns we would have more babies being born because of the negative death rate!

 

[smile72]

I knew there wouldn't be much point arguing. Gun lovers will always be gun lovers, stats and logic bedamned

If guns DO make you safer, think about this - the US has many more murders per capita than anywhere else. If each of those guns make it a bit safer, imagine how incredibly unsafe it would be without them! Maybe people would just start randomly dropping dead every minute?? Thank god for those guns! Maybe you should get some more? The government should mandate that everybody own at least three guns!

I'm glad to live in a place that is so amazingly safe that it can have a third as many murders (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/oecd-homicide-rates-chart-2015-6?r=US&IR=T) with 100th as many guns (made that last number up)! Maybe if we got more guns we would have more babies being born because of the negative death rate!

Again either you are ignoring what I'm writing or you are arguing with yourself.. Yes, I do love guns. That's true but I also know statistics; and believe it or not guns can save lives. And I do feel safer with one especially because of all of the mass shootings. If guns became illegal in the U.S. I would be ok with that BUT they wont so stop arguing useless points. The U.S. wont get rid of or even restrict gun ownership at least not for awhile. How do I know this? Google about our congress and our supreme court if you don't care enough to do this. then stop arguing with yourself. Its honestly pointless. No one is disagreeing with you. Just because I enjoy owning guns doesn\t make me a bad person. Nor does it mean its for everyone. I hate when people villianize gun owners. there are legitimate reasons for owning them. And anyway Australia and the United Sates again are quite different. Sure we both do speak English. However about 15 percent of America lives in rural areas compared to 1- percent for Australia...and while it may seem like a similar number Australias rural population is less than 3,000,000 while Americas is over 45,000,000. Which is larger than Australias population. So you should understand there are large differences between the two countries.

 

[Quantumcat]

Again either you are ignoring what I'm writing or you are arguing with yourself.. Yes, I do love guns. That's true but I also know statistics; and believe it or not guns can save lives. And I do feel safer with one especially because of all of the mass shootings. If guns became illegal in the U.S. I would be ok with that BUT they wont so stop arguing useless points. The U.S. wont get rid of or even restrict gun ownership at least not for awhile. How do I know this? Google about our congress and our supreme court if you don't care enough to do this. then stop arguing with yourself. Its honestly pointless. No one is disagreeing with you. Just because I enjoy owning guns doesn\t make me a bad person. Nor does it mean its for everyone. I hate when people villianize gun owners. there are legitimate reasons for owning them. And anyway Australia and the United Sates again are quite different. Sure we both do speak English. However about 15 percent of America lives in rural areas compared to 1- percent for Australia...and while it may seem like a similar number Australias rural population is less than 3,000,000 while Americas is over 45,000,000. Which is larger than Australias population. So you should understand there are large differences between the two countries.

Don't know where you got your numbers from but they aren't correct. 10.58% of Australians live in rural areas (https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html) and 18.38% of Americans do (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html). If you know that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...ncreases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/amp/) then why own one? You say you want to be safer, but you want to do something that makes you less safe. This I don't understand. I never said it makes you a bad person - just maybe illogical perhaps? But, it doesn't affect me so, own lots of guns if you choose :-)

 

[smile72]

Don't know where you got your numbers from but they aren't correct. 10.58% of Australians live in rural areas (https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html) and 18.38% of Americans do (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html). If you know that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...ncreases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/amp/) then why own one? You say you want to be safer, but you want to do something that makes you less safe. This I don't understand. I never said it makes you a bad person - just maybe illogical perhaps? But, it doesn't affect me so, own lots of guns if you choose :-)

Ah omg Im so sorry I meant to type 10 percent. But lol even so its an obvious mistake. I mean nobody thinks Australia has 300,000,000 people. Oh one of the sites I had used in the past put it at 15 percent I guess the rural population must have increased. And that study seems mostly to focus on Philadelphia...the experience of gun owners in cities and suburbs are quite different. It doesn't make me illogical. It just makes me think you just cant understand Americas gun culture or America. You come off as quite snide and condescending. Like a few Europeans I have met; they often like to condescend about why America has such high gun violence without looking at the unique flaws of their own countries. Sure they may have solved that problem but they have others to deal with,, Americans are still figuring out how to deal with this problem. It actually isn't so easy.

 

[barronwaffles]

Don't know where you got your numbers from but they aren't correct. 10.58% of Australians live in rural areas (https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html) and 18.38% of Americans do (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html). If you know that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...ncreases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/amp/) then why own one? You say you want to be safer, but you want to do something that makes you less safe. This I don't understand. I never said it makes you a bad person - just maybe illogical perhaps? But, it doesn't affect me so, own lots of guns if you choose :-)

Yet Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world? It's almost as if poverty and culture play a larger role than legislation around firearm ownership.

 

[mgrev]

"Another"

This is just sad

 

[Byokugen]

@Quantumcat you don't nees.a gun.in Australia, even nature wants to kill you :-)

 

[Deleted User]

You can't get me with your commie anti gun arguments when I believe we should start banning people all together

 

[Byokugen]

You can't get me with your commie anti gun arguments when I believe we should start banning people all together

Just don't forget that "the greatest country" was founded by immigrants :-)

 

[Deleted User]

Just don't forget that "the greatest country" was founded by immigrants :-)

I know what your getting at, but it doesn't work.

 

[Byokugen]

I know what your getting at, but it doesn't work.

I was just saying, not all are terrorists. But yeah I also understand your point. That is why I think 2012 would have been a good thing.

 

[Quantumcat]

Ah omg Im so sorry I meant to type 10 percent. But lol even so its an obvious mistake. I mean nobody thinks Australia has 300,000,000 people. Oh one of the sites I had used in the past put it at 15 percent I guess the rural population must have increased. And that study seems mostly to focus on Philadelphia...the experience of gun owners in cities and suburbs are quite different. It doesn't make me illogical. It just makes me think you just cant understand Americas gun culture or America. You come off as quite snide and condescending. Like a few Europeans I have met; they often like to condescend about why America has such high gun violence without looking at the unique flaws of their own countries. Sure they may have solved that problem but they have others to deal with,, Americans are still figuring out how to deal with this problem. It actually isn't so easy.

It isn't the culture. Australia had as many mass shootings per year as the U.S. until the Port Arthur massacre in the 90s, then John Howard our PM decided to force in tough gun laws and do a buyback of everyone's now illegal guns. We haven't had a mass shooting since. Did our culture or "unique flaws" change? Nope - exactly the same country missing relaxed gun laws. And studies do show that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot and killed. If you want to argue against these facts, then use a scientific study published in a peer-reviewed journal rather than pleas to emotions. It's understandable that you want to own guns because you hunt or because they're cool and you just like them. I mean lots of people own vintage cars without all the safety features of modern cars because they just like them, even though they're a little less safe. They don't claim to want vintage cars because they are safer though. So don't pretend you own guns to make you safer - you have them because they are cool and you like them. (I can understand the attraction in a theoretical level - they are amazing pieces of engineering)

 

[Quantumcat]

Yet Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world? It's almost as if poverty and culture play a larger role than legislation around firearm ownership.

What's that meant to prove? Switzerland has a similar level of gun ownership to other normal countries and a fifth as many as the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

[HamBone41801]

Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/390963-florida-shooting-multiple-fatalities/

Not a day goes by when people can just live peacefully and enjoy their lives.

RIP.

was this one a similar situation to the first?

 

[smile72]

It isn't the culture. Australia had as many mass shootings per year as the U.S. until the Port Arthur massacre in the 90s, then John Howard our PM decided to force in tough gun laws and do a buyback of everyone's now illegal guns. We haven't had a mass shooting since. Did our culture or "unique flaws" change? Nope - exactly the same country missing relaxed gun laws. And studies do show that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot and killed. If you want to argue against these facts, then use a scientific study published in a peer-reviewed journal rather than pleas to emotions. It's understandable that you want to own guns because you hunt or because they're cool and you just like them. I mean lots of people own vintage cars without all the safety features of modern cars because they just like them, even though they're a little less safe. They don't claim to want vintage cars because they are safer though. So don't pretend you own guns to make you safer - you have them because they are cool and you like them. (I can understand the attraction in a theoretical level - they are amazing pieces of engineering)
I actually don't need proof...one as your study mentions this

[While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot, it may be that guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations, or encourages them to visit neighbourhoods they probably shouldn’t, Branas speculates. Supporters of the Second Amendment shouldn’t worry that the right to bear arms is under threat, however. “We don’t have an answer as to whether guns are protective or perilous,” Branas says. “This study is a beginning.”/QUOTE]

I do hate it when people overlook glaringly obvious reasons for high gun deaths in the United States. Yes, I won't lie the mass shootings are terrible. but a gun not keeping some people safe is to be fair very untrue it saved my life numerous times when I was dealing with homophobes....of course one could argue that I could have lied and just said I have a gun but I wouldn't want to risk that. .However removing guns isnt the best solution because as I said the United States is incredibly vast. The rural population of the United States is LARGER than all of Australia. Each state is different. And telling Americans they need to be like Australia doesn't really solve other underlying problems. And you do realize that kind of attempt would fail horribly...many governors would simply sue the U.S. government. Well and as whether guns make the US in general safer the answer is no and there are many problematic gun users but does that mean I should disregard my safety and take a risk? No because I do believe it makes me safer and I have been around guns most of my life. So, guns have saved my life if you wanna believe those are feelings go ahead. I don't care.