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[POLL] Who are/would you vote for United States President?

Who are/would you vote for United States President?

  • Hillary Clinton (Democrat)

    Votes: 77 24.2%
  • Donald Trump (Republican)

    Votes: 127 39.9%
  • Gary Johnson (Libertarian)

    Votes: 26 8.2%
  • Jill Stein (Green)

    Votes: 21 6.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 67 21.1%

  • Total voters
    318
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Monado_III

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If I was American (which thankfully I'm not, as much as I dislike Trudeau he's still a far better president/PM than any candidate the USA has) I wouldn't even vote for anyone. Either way the corporations edit: people with money and influence will get their way seeing as Trump is an embarrassing idiot (as his opinions on climate change shows) and Hillary is a corrupt moron (as the whole email server thing and Benghazi showed well enough).
 
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Lacius

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I pwned U!

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Flu shots are vaccines. She doesn't know what she's talking about, which demonstrates my earlier point about what it means to be anti-science, and this isn't the only anti-vaccine thing she states in the article that's BS.
If you have any specific examples of her saying that she is anti-vaccine and any evidence that flu shots are actually vaccines (independent and unbiased, and not just your own interpretations of what she posted, or your own personal opinions), then I suggest that you follow your own advice from earlier:
If you are going to argue that something is the case, it is up to you to show that it's true.
 
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Lacius

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If you have any specific examples of her saying that she is anti-vaccine and any evidence that flu shots are actually vaccines (independent and unbiased, and not just your own interpretations of what she posted, or your own personal opinions), then I suggest that you follow your own advice from earlier:
It's common knowledge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine

If a vaccine works against one strain of a virus, but it doesn't work against a mutated strain, which requires a new vaccine, that doesn't make the aforementioned vaccination any less of a vaccination. Not to make an appeal to authority, but I have a BS in biology, so I know what I am talking about.
 
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It's common knowledge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine

If a vaccine works against one strain of a virus, but it doesn't work against a mutated strain, which requires a new vaccine, that doesn't make the aforementioned vaccination any less of a vaccination. Not to make an appeal to authority, but I have a BS in biology, so I know what I am talking about.
Thank you for finally providing a specific example for one of your statements.

Of course, this still does not prove your other statement that Vani Hari is anti-vaccine. She only said specifically that she opposes the unnecessary ingredients in flu shots, and she did not come out against other vaccines.
 
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Lacius

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Thank you for finally providing a specific example for one of your statements.

Of course, this still does not prove your other statement that Vani Hari is anti-vaccine. She only said specifically that she opposes the unnecessary ingredients in flu shots, and she did not come out against other vaccines.
I've provided plenty of specific examples throughout this thread. I've even quoted specific campaign websites, so please.

Her opposition is irrational, and advocating against flu shots is demonstrably harmful to people. She is anti-vaccine without regard for the consequences.

Anyway, I'm done.
 

grossaffe

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The EPA has rules that require a nuclear waste storage facility, such as Yucca Mountain, to be able to withstand the effects of hypothetical earthquakes. It's really not that much waste to manage, it's not that difficult to manage, the environmental effect of it pales in comparison to the negative environmental effect of things like the construction of solar panels, and the nuclear waste will very likely have a use in the future.

When looked at objectively, nuclear energy is a very viable source of green energy that has the potential to produce great amounts of energy with very little downside. Most of the people I've talked to about the issue, yourself included, seem to be against it because it feels bad or feels dangerous, but these kinds of decisions aren't based on arbitrary feelings; they're based on facts.
I addressed very specific concerns about nuclear energy, not "feelings". I'm not against nuclear as a concept, but there are some very real safety concerns involved in it that you're so quick to hand-wave away and condemn as "feelings".

I will be watching to see what happens with the tests being done on a Thorium-based fission for nuclear energy as it's said to be safer and Thorium is in high abundance.
 

Lacius

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She is anti-additives, not anti-vaccine.

It is very reasonable to conclude from what she wrote that if flu shots did not have all of those unnecessary additives, then she would be much more open to getting them.
Re-read the article. She expresses more concerns than just the additives. So no, it would not be reasonable to conclude that.
 

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Except that those other concerns are minor in comparison, and she made it clear that they did not impact her conclusion.
She talks about a flu vaccine literally wearing off, which is not how it works. She talks about how it's bad solely because it's artificial. She talks about how it's ineffective when it's not. She talks about how it's better to naturally expose yourself to the flu as if that's at all healthy and inherently better because it's natural. She talks about how being exposed to the flu will naturally immunize you against more strains of the flu virus than a flu shot. She says the flu shot weakens the immune system. She says elderly people shouldn't get the flu virus because it will hurt them. She says the flu shot leads to "respiratory tract infections, eye problems, abnormal blood pressure, asthma, hives, and gastrointestinal problems that could also lead to other complications." She explicitly states the flu shot is a money-making scheme. This is where I draw the line. Your comments are as though you haven't even read the article, because her other concerns aren't "minor," and I shouldn't waste my time talking to someone with this level of insincerity. I'm done.

And none of this is including her comments outside the article stating the flu shot was used as a form of genocide, and it doesn't include her numerous other pseudo-scientific and naturalistic fallacy claims.
 

RevPokemon

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However, in practice, since there's no reason to think GMOs are any worse for a person than their non-GMO counterparts, and since the labeling realistically creates an undue burden on the GMO manufacturers due to the anti-GMO propaganda, I can't support it. I think the state has a vested interest in incentivizing the use of GMOs.

Because of how I view it in principle, the issue of labeling isn't one I'm particularly passionate about. What I am passionate about is stopping the spread of all this misinformation and anti-GMO propaganda.
I agree with most of what you said (wow) but I would also add the labeling is not a burden on the companies but more or less just harms them due to the idiotic consumers who worry needlessly about GMO when AFAIK it is perfectly safe.
 

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I agree with most of what you said (wow) but I would also add the labeling is not a burden on the companies but more or less just harms them due to the idiotic consumers who worry needlessly about GMO when AFAIK it is perfectly safe.
That's what I meant when I mentioned the burden, not the act of actually printing labels.
 

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That's what I meant when I mentioned the burden, not the act of actually printing labels.
Good and understood.

Also it is funny how in some sense we have been talking about being anti science but have not mentioned the regular evolution and climate change stuff that comes up. Although I really do not see how in 2016 there are people against evolution or climate change.
 

Lacius

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Good and understood.

Also it is funny how in some sense we have been talking about being anti science but have not mentioned the regular evolution and climate change stuff that comes up. Although I really do not see how in 2016 there are people against evolution or climate change.
I think conservatives are better on the issue of climate change than libertarians. Conservatives, sincere or not, claim to not actually believe in human-caused climate change, so the logical course of action is nothing. However, libertarians often acknowledge the problem of human-caused climate change, but then they make the conscious choice to do nothing about it. It's like how Todd Akin was better on rape and abortion than most conservatives. He didn't believe pregnancy could result from rape, so abortion in the case of rape was a non-issue. Most conservatives, on the other hand, acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy from rape, but they choose to do nothing about it.
 

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I think conservatives are better on the issue of climate change than libertarians. Conservatives, sincere or not, claim to not actually believe in human-caused climate change, so the logical course of action is nothing. However, libertarians often acknowledge the problem of human-caused climate change, but then they make the conscious choice to do nothing about it.
As a libertarian who believes in man made climate change, I think part of the issue is that many of the proposed solutions to climate change violate other libertarian ideas. Carbon taxes? that is taxation so it is bad. Granted many libertarians do somewhat agree that a carbon tax could be good as per http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/12/a-libertarian-argues-for-a-carbon-tax as does Johnson. Plus i feel since most of the key supporters of climate change action are more to the left (Al Gore for example) that it also scares them off.

Although I do feel Walter Block offers some good ideas about free market solutions to climate change. Personally I support a mix between the two of regulations (on principal of property rights) and free market solutions (like those of Prof.Block).

Also I think it is a problem as tier is not a singly defined group of "libertarians" as they are much more diverse then conservatives or liberals are.
 
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Lacius

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As a libertarian who believes in man made climate change, I think part of the issue is that many of the proposed solutions to climate change violate other libertarian ideas. Carbon taxes? that is taxation so it is bad. Granted many libertarians do somewhat agree that a carbon tax could be good as per http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/12/a-libertarian-argues-for-a-carbon-tax as does Johnson. Plus i feel since most of the key supporters of climate change action are more to the left (Al Gore for example) that it also scares them off.

Although I do feel Walter Block offers some good ideas about free market solutions to climate change. Personally I support a mix between the two of regulations (on principal of property rights) and free market solutions (like those of Prof.Block).
Johnson is opposed to a carbon tax, despite his outloud thinking that it might be a libertarian position:
If any of you heard me say I support a carbon tax...Look, I haven't raised a penny of taxes in my politicial career and neither has Bill [Weld]. We were looking at—I was looking at—what I heard was a carbon fee which from a free-market standpoint would actually address the issue and cost less. I have determined that, you know what, it's a great theory but I don't think it can work, and I've worked my way through that.

And I support a person's right to choose, so when it comes to vaccinations we should be able to make the decision whether we want to vaccinate our kids or not. I choose to vaccinate my kid and you never say never. Look, in the case of a zombie apocalypse taking over the United States, and there is a vaccine for that, as president of the United States, you might find me mandating that vaccine.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-comes-out-again

You might have also caught his dangerous thinking on vaccinations at the end there. If the previous conversations in this thread are any indication, vaccinations should be mandatory.
 
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Johnson is opposed to a carbon tax, despite his outloud thinking that it might be a libertarian position:
I did not notice that he switched posistions as I have been very busy the last week

Johnson is opposed to a carbon tax, despite his outloud thinking that it might be a libertarian position:

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/libertarian-gary-johnson-comes-out-again

You might have also caught his dangerous thinking on vaccinations at the end there. If the previous conversations in this thread are any indication, vaccinations should be mandatory.

Today, there are no federal laws mandating vaccinations, and that is as it should be. No adult should be required by the government to inject anything into his or her body.

Each of the 50 states has varying vaccination requirements for children, consistent with their responsibilities for public education and providing a safe environment for students who are required to attend school under state law. Likewise, each of the 50 states has varying opportunities for parents to seek exemptions from vaccination requirements for legitimate reasons of personal belief. That, too, is as it should be.

And while I personally believe some states' 'opt-out' provisions are not adequate in terms of personal freedom, those laws and requirements are appropriately beyond the scope of the federal government—including the President.

Clearly, if and when a major outbreak of a communicable disease occurs that crosses state lines or sweeps the nation, then appropriate levels of government have an obligation to act—and act rapidly. As President, it would be irresponsible to rule out scientifically and medically sound responses to such an emergency.

Government has a responsibility to help keep our children and our communities safe. At the same time, government has a responsibility to preserve individual freedom. Vaccination policies must respect both of those responsibilities. I personally believe in vaccinations, and my children were vaccinated. But it is not for me to impose that belief on others. - Gov. Johnson

Personally I think that is a good policy and I support it. Plus in my own case this is a minor issue as I agree with him on issues I feel are more important such as freeing Ross Ulbricht, the internet, whistle blowers, abortion, social security, and other issues.
 
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