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About the Texas massacre and easy access to guns.

Olmectron

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We’ve just discussed this kind of appeal to emotions and why it’s ineffective. You’re effectively telling me “think of the children”, the subtext being that if I’m unwilling to relinquish the constitutional right to bear arms, I’m a bad person. Two things can be true at once - you can care about the victims and also believe that this right is fundamental in a free society and must be defended. There’s a great number of things we can do to reduce the number of mass shootings without infringing upon constitutional rights or relinquishing any of them, and none of those things are going to be discussed by Congress because they’re not marketable. What’s marketable is to create a moral panic over “black and scary” rifles and dead children even though the majority of mass shootings are committed with handguns (by an enormous margin) and take place between rival gangs. Even if we set that obvious fact aside, the reason why mass shootings in schools take place now when they didn’t use to is the increased prevalence of depression and despair, driven in part by social media turning people’s brains into mush and mainstream media consistently chasing tragedies to cover, creating a false impression of the end of days. Good news doesn’t sell ads.
I’m glad that you agree hate speech is not a legitimate reason to limit a citizen’s rights. The 2A is absolutely insurance against tyranny, not just when exercised, but just by the virtue of its existence. You don’t tread too hard on people who are armed. The first thing every tyrannical government does is disarming civilians - a population that can’t fight back can be easily broken. Americans should never relinquish the right to bear their arms, should the need to use them arise.
Alright I guess.

I mean, just "think of other people lifes" would be what I would say, not to think of the children.

This is why we, as a society, have failed. We can't kind of diminish our own right (like applying those stricter gun controls everyone talks about in this thread) without feeling violated even when it would just take a bit more of burocracy to get a gun for our hunting hobbie.

Whatever. Just let people die because of guns. Let parents be afraid of their kids going to school. Let people be afraid of having a different skin color and going out to the streets for taking a breath because police know no other way to stop "bad looking" guys than using their guns.

Life is short. But yeah, let's us enjoy our precious guns while making life even shorter for some people.

I don't care anymore. I get off this thread.
 
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tabzer

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I envision a future where everyone is self-aware, and accountable for their actions. The people who want gun control, want people regulated, like livestock, in perpetuity.

Insects are more self-aware.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Would they? I don’t know about that - they didn’t seem to have any issues with deploying armored vehicles, tear gas and “less lethal” firearms before, not to mention all the beat downs, I don’t see why things couldn’t get worse when the rubber really meets the road. Isn’t it you guys who are constantly complaining about police brutality and senseless killings of civilians? I thought that was your line, but now I’m lost.

Police seems to be able to perfectly restrain itself depending on skin colour of target.
 
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smf

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Guns should be legal in general, it has nothing to do with the risk of electrocution.
In your opinion. Fortunately in the UK, your opinion is in the minority.

I envision a future where everyone is self-aware, and accountable for their actions. The people who want gun control, want people regulated, like livestock, in perpetuity.

Insects are more self-aware.
Actually those who want gun control also want people to be more self aware, which would mean they wouldn't want to own guns. But until that happens, they want to control guns.

Ants are live stock. They have no concept of self at all.

Police seems to be able to perfectly restrain itself depending on skin colour of target.
Right, Police kill exactly the people they intend to kill.
 

Foxi4

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In your opinion. Fortunately in the UK, your opinion is in the minority.
AR-15’s are legal in the UK, including semi-automatics as long as they’re chambered in .22LR, it’s not a magical forbidden weapon, since that’s what we’re talking about. As for the UK conveniently forgetting about their own Bill of Rights and sacrificing one of their rights, it’s very unfortunate, and explains a lot of the nonsense coming from Westminster. I hope that one day this can change, but I don’t think it will unless some kind of major conflict once again demonstrates the utility of an armed populace, which is a scenario best avoided.
Police seems to be able to perfectly restrain itself depending on skin colour of target.
The statistics don’t show that, as we’ve discussed some time ago. The only actual correlation that can be demonstrated is with the level of criminality in a given community. In fact, if you compare apples to apples, non-white suspects are less likely to be shot by police.
Alright I guess.

I mean, just "think of other people lifes" would be what I would say, not to think of the children.

This is why we, as a society, have failed. We can't kind of diminish our own right (like applying those stricter gun controls everyone talks about in this thread) without feeling violated even when it would just take a bit more of burocracy to get a gun for our hunting hobbie.

Whatever. Just let people die because of guns. Let parents be afraid of their kids going to school. Let people be afraid of having a different skin color and going out to the streets for taking a breath because police know no other way to stop "bad looking" guys than using their guns.

Life is short. But yeah, let's us enjoy our precious guns while making life even shorter for some people.

I don't care anymore. I get off this thread.
Diminishing someone’s rights when they’re innocent of any wrongdoing is a violation, so feeling violated in such an instance is perfectly understandable.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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The statistics don’t show that, as we’ve discussed some time ago. The only actual correlation that can be demonstrated is with the level of criminality in a given community. In fact, if you compare apples to apples, non-white suspects are less likely to be shot by police.
And yet whenever there is a terror attack or a mass shooting, if the attacker is white they tend to capture him alive.
 

tabzer

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Actually those who want gun control also want people to be more self aware, which would mean they wouldn't want to own guns. But until that happens, they want to control guns.

Ants are live stock. They have no concept of self at all.

And the punchline delivers itself. Doesn't feed the colony, but it still responds to the signal. Tell us how.
 
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tabzer

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KennyAtom

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smf

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And the punchline delivers itself. Doesn't feed the colony, but it still responds to the signal. Tell us how.
You'll need to explain exactly what point you are making and what you are asking me.

ITT: liberal complains about insufficient police brutality.
That isn't what they were saying, but twisting their words is funny for you I guess.

Diminishing someone’s rights when they’re innocent of any wrongdoing is a violation, so feeling violated in such an instance is perfectly understandable.
So we should legalize all drugs?
 
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Foxi4

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So we should legalize all drugs?
Pretty much, yes. Drug possession is a vice crime, drug consumption is a matter of personal health and the government has absolutely no business criminalising either. All it does is create opportunity for organised crime, much like alcohol prohibition did. I’ve answered that question extensively earlier - what a person ingests is their business so long as they do not cause harm to others while they’re doing it. Legalising drugs makes them safer for consumers since they’d be subject to the same checks as other medicines, plus it creates a new emerging market which allows former petty criminals to go clean and legally participate in the economy while simultaneously eliminating associated organised crime.
and what about prostitution?
It’s none of the government’s business to legislate or criminalise what people do with their penises and vaginas, criminalised prostitution only incentivises human trafficking and other associated criminal activity. The illegal part of prostitution is the moment when money changes hands, and I don’t see a reason why that should be. Put a camera in the same room and all of a sudden it’s not prostitution, it’s pornography. Legalising prostitution allows all prostitutes to make a legal, taxable income - they’d be eligible to get a pension and make an honest living. They’d also be able to take advantage of the healthcare system more openly, without hiding their occupation from doctors, and as such get better disease screenings. Finally, it eliminates another source of income for organised criminals, putting pimps out of a job. It’s just another criminalised vice, making it illegal does more harm than good.
Nope, which is why with legalisation should also come state monopoly.
That takes away one of the key benefits of legalisation - a path to making an honest, legal and taxable income for those involved in the trade. There’s no government monopoly in the production of medical drugs, I see no reason why recreational drugs should work differently.
 

Dark_Ansem

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That takes away one of the key benefits of legalisation - a path to making an honest, legal and taxable income for those involved in the trade. There’s no government monopoly in the production of medical drugs, I see no reason why recreational drugs should work differently.
Because without state monopoly there will be no obstacle to criminality.
 

Foxi4

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Because without state monopoly there will be no obstacle to criminality.
The opposite is true, as seen in countries that have broadly decriminalised large swathes of drugs. Amsterdam didn’t spontaneously explode when soft drugs and prostitution were legalised (or rather, when they became tolerated, it’s pretty complicated still) - people opened up “coffee shops” and brothels and they’re making an honest living. Legalising them removes the incentive for criminality - there’s a legal pathway to achieve the same result as before, so risking jail time makes no sense. In fact, I’d argue that it’s not going far enough - all drugs should be subject to the same lenient policies and people should only be punished in instances when they do harm under the influence, as is the case with alcohol.
 

Dark_Ansem

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The opposite is true, as seen in countries that have broadly decriminalised large swathes of drugs. Amsterdam didn’t spontaneously explode when soft drugs and prostitution were legalised - people opened up “coffee shops” and brothels and they’re making an honest living. Legalising them removes the incentive for criminality - there’s a legal pathway to achieve the same result as before, so risking jail time makes no sense. In fact, I’d argue that it’s not going far enough - all drugs should be subject to the same, lenient policies and people should only be punished in instances when they do harm under the influence, as is the case with alcohol.
All these shops you mentioned need still to get a state license and comply with certain standards. All licenses are government-controlled in the Netherlands, for example. https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/toleration-policy-regarding-soft-drugs-and-coffee-shops
It's nto a "free market" in the sense that Libertarians think.
And when it comes to prostitution, the emphasis should be health and welfare, as opposed to generating profit.
 

Foxi4

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All these shops you mentioned need still to get a state license and comply with certain standards. All licenses are government-controlled in the Netherlands, for example. https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/toleration-policy-regarding-soft-drugs-and-coffee-shops
It's nto a "free market" in the sense that Libertarians think.
That is true, but I’d be happy to make that concession so long as people stop going to prison for what they do with their bodies. Bars need alcohol licenses too and I’m not up in arms about it. It’s a “free market” in the sense that it’s open to the public - you can buy recreational drugs in much the same way as regular medicine, you don’t need to go to a state-ran vendor (which is what state monopoly means - if that’s not what you meant then that’s fine), the businesses are privately held.
And when it comes to prostitution, the emphasis should be health and welfare, as opposed to generating profit.
One goes hand in hand with the other - prostitutes need to make money in order to support themselves.
 

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