Homebrew Xbox original is better than Wii in HB Territory?

[Ericsonanzois]

I like a lot about this channel but:

 

[ChibiMofo]

MVG is an XBox fanboi. He made a number of mistakes and was intentionally misleading in this video. To cite just one example, he has a comparison chart of what you can do with each console and mentions that you can get up to 2TB in external USB storage for the Xbox. He makes no similar claim for the Wii even though many of us here hookup 2TB USB external drives to our Wii's. He's right that the Xbox plays 1990s and later arcade titles under MAME better, however. Of course I couldn't care less about that.

The Wii gives you a unique gaming experience and 100% compatibility with GameCube. The XBox isn't even close to 100% compatible with anything else. If you recognize how imperfect emulators tend to be, you'll appreciate the importance of the Wii's GC compatibility. And how with VC, VC injects, and WiiWare it is the better choice for most of us. (And I do feel sorry for anyone still using an OG Xbox as a media player. Talk about partying like it's 1999!)

 

[niuus]

MVG is an XBox fanboi. He made a number of mistakes and was intentionally misleading in this video. To cite just one example, he has a comparison chart of what you can do with each console and mentions that you can get up to 2TB in external USB storage for the Xbox. He makes no similar claim for the Wii even though many of us here hookup 2TB USB external drives to our Wii's. He's right that the Xbox plays 1990s and later arcade titles under MAME better, however. Of course I couldn't care less about that.

This.

Both are cool for homebrew. But being objective, the only strong point about Xbox at this point, is that arcade games compatibility is higher, taking into account most of the homebrew from that console came from decades of already existing open source x86 PC projects. You could, for example, do Killer Instinct and Street Fighter III perfectly playable on the Wii if someone was motivated enough (say, a money bounty) to optimize and write the code for the PowerPC processor inside the console.

While there are specific emulators that will run better on the Xbox, like PS1 or N64, i wouldn't change the perfect CRT compatibility, controller input variety, USB ports and SD reader that the "simple" Wii offers.

 

[tech3475]

Personally, I used my Xboxs allot back in the day for XBMC, even bought a second one because of it (£30).

 

[The Real Jdbye]

The Wii is the clear winner for me. Full backwards compatibility with the GC library is hard to beat.
What he doesn't mention is that arcade compatibility on such a weak system will not be great, you'll be limited to older titles, most likely running on Mame 0.37b5 (or mame4all) or an even older version, anything not supported on that version simply won't work at all.
That's still a large library of games, especially when you include other arcade emulators like FBAlpha, but it's all 8 and 16 bit games, nowhere near the complexity of GameCube games, especially as arcade games tend to be simple pick up and play shorter experiences. For me they don't hold up to the excellent full length games on the GameCube, like Zelda WW and TP, Paper Mario, Super Mario Sunshine, even the Pokemon spinoffs were pretty great, not to mention all the 3rd party releases, for example Sonic Heroes which some say is one of the best 3D Sonics (there have been some bad/mediocre ones for sure)
Arcade games are fun for a few minutes at a time, but they just don't give me the same enjoyment as some GC games, it's quantity over quality, and you won't be playing any light gun games or 3D arcade racers on such an old MAME version either, which are in my opinion some of the most fun games you can find at an arcade or at the very least the ones with the highest replay value.

I don't doubt that the Xbox has superior N64 emulation though as Wii64/Not64 is not great speed wise and VC injects have extremely limited compatibility. Similarly WiiSX was abandoned and never saw much improvement so PSX emulation on the Wii is pretty bad too, the Xbox likely has a big advantage there. But I imagine it's far from perfect with many compatibility and speed issues still, as these things tend to go.
GC support on the Wii though is perfect, better than you will ever get from emulation, and that is a pretty big deal. To this day the only devices I have that are fast enough to emulate GC and Wii games relatively consistently at full speed are my PCs, and not without some occasional slowdowns or glitches - though I still prefer emulating those systems as they look much better rendered at a higher resolution, while they look extremely dated otherwise on a modern TV. But for those that don't have a PC fast enough to run Dolphin (maybe only have a cheap laptop for school, with an ULV CPU that won't clock high enough or stay clocked high enough for games to run smoothly, I'm sure there are some) or who prefer real hardware the Wii is hard to beat for the sheer library of games between the Wii and GC library and everything else is just a bonus.

 

[FAST6191]

I don't know about currently as I have not kept up with either in recent times but for many years I would have put the original xbox ahead of the wii in terms of emulators being able to do the highly polished and easy to use UI where wii stuff was a bit patchy and more alpha state, indeed the UIs between many emulators were fairly homogeneous on the original xbox which made it all quite nice.

Sure the Wii had some measure of gamecube compatibility and wiiware/virtual console did a few things that would be tricky (VC N64 doing better than most original xbox efforts at N64, even if I would not care to use either in the end) but if the classic 16 bit and older era consoles and similar such devices was the test (and it kind of still is -- any PS1, Saturn, N64 or beyond efforts tending to be so much buggy bonus for anything other than the PC) then I would have picked the xbox, and still reckon it can put up a good show.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

I don't know about currently as I have not kept up with either in recent times but for many years I would have put the original xbox ahead of the wii in terms of emulators being able to do the highly polished and easy to use UI where wii stuff was a bit patchy and more alpha state, indeed the UIs between many emulators were fairly homogeneous on the original xbox which made it all quite nice.

Sure the Wii had some measure of gamecube compatibility and wiiware/virtual console did a few things that would be tricky (VC N64 doing better than most original xbox efforts at N64, even if I would not care to use either in the end) but if the classic 16 bit and older era consoles and similar such devices was the test (and it kind of still is -- any PS1, Saturn, N64 or beyond efforts tending to be so much buggy bonus for anything other than the PC) then I would have picked the xbox, and still reckon it can put up a good show.

Most of the emulators on Wii have a unified interface, namely Snes9x GX, VBA GX, Genesis Plus GX and any other ones with GX in the title I may be forgetting, and they did a pretty nice job with the interface, looks professionally made. Can't say the same for Wii64/Not64 or WiiSX though, but they're still functional. ScummVM has a decent enough looking interface as well, if a bit basic.
There is also WiiFlow Lite as a frontend to launch all those games from one place (including GC and Wii as well obviously) which you can get themes for to get it looking a bit more professional. Works nicely as an "ultimate setup" that even the kids can use.

Those 3 GX emulators are all I cared to use on the Wii when it came to emulation really, since N64 and PSX weren't good enough to me to be worth seriously using, but they happen to run everything pretty much perfectly, which I found impressive at the time given SNES games especially can often be difficult to run on weak consoles, and it ran Star Fox and Super Mario RPG no problem.

Saturn emulation is pretty bad even on PC honestly. Compatibility is poor and chances are not every game you want to play will work.

 

[JuanMena]

Better in which sense?
Playing games? This only matters if you stay with the exclusives.
It depends on which games you want to play.
Want a totally retro experience? Get a Wii.
Want a console that's also a Media Player? Get the XBOX

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

I have both and both expanded storage... I love them equally!!!

Xbox truly is better with Ninja Massive and stuff. Wii is better with the loaders and I feel like some other emulators are better on the Wii... I can't place my finger on it but I feel like SNES and NES and TG-16 is best on the Wii.

Another thing I kind of lean towards the Wii is on the native library. Both systems have great games but I feel like the Wii has more games that I enjoy.

 

[CORE]

I tend to agree with Lantus because the XBOX has the expanded RAM Capability and has HD Output along with XBMC it is a Killer Appliance for dirt Cheap too.

Also seems to have more going for it regarding Homebrew with that said Latest GlideN64 and Mupen 64 Core Latest Features would be nice for Wii.

But Overall I have both and they great.

 

[Kraken_X]

The Wii doesn't display in 720p or 1080i. Even with a solid upscaler, the original Xbox will give better graphics in games and applications that support high definition, which includes most homebrew. ZSNES on Xbox even supports rewind, and N64, GBA and PS1 support is much better. Full speed with filtering. XBMC was revolutionary, and modern builds still support the new file formats, even if the Xbox struggles with 720p video.

The Wii does have better games and GC backwards compatibility, but we aren't talking about which system was better overall, just which is better for homebrew. Since the display output on the Wii is so bad, I don't even play Wii games on the Wii anymore. I play them in 4k in Dolphin. I kept using my Xbox for homebrew up until recently.

I have an Nvidia Shield that I use for homebrew now since the Xbox is underpowered for modern uses, but I still miss it's streamlined interface, custom dashboards, easy FTP access, etc.

 

[Ericsonanzois]

I think hard a decision about both systems. They are head to head in HB scenario.
In FTP we have FTPwii and Wiiexplorer FTP Startup. Genesis plus GX borned in Wii (If im not correct).
The autor took in count Homebrew until 2019.
Wiiflow can do a XBMC role although i agree that is difficult.
But about N64 the Wii have at least 21 games running via VC (not counting injects or others emulators) correctly.
Wii have USB Loader and Wads installers. Wad´s installers are a good add-on for Wiiware and VC games.
HBB is good but could have a tool to download wads and to install it.
About PS1 emulator i cannot say much.

 

[RunningSnakes]

I'm not familiar with the XBOX HB scene but am curious to exactly what Arcade games can be played, that MAME 2003 Plus for the Wii cannot? As for Neo Geo, the Wii plays just about the entire library flawlessly through either VC or FBA. GBA emulation is also nearly perfect using eMGBA with robust filters/ color matrix among other settings, if set up properly. Using WiiFlow Lite as a Frontend GUI is icing on the cake that only Hyperspin or LaunchBox can rival. TG16 & PCECD are also emulated as good as any PC. I own a Shield & MiBox with emulation set up on those as well. Yes they work well and cover pretty much all consoles, but i find are clunky and i'll never get over the input lag that is glaring on games that require fast reflex. Just my 2 cents.

 

[niuus]

The Wii doesn't display in 720p or 1080i.

It supports 240p all the way up to 480p. That beats the Xbox out of the water for the purpose of the best use of the console for homebrew.

The Wii does have better games and GC backwards compatibility, but we aren't talking about which system was better overall, just which is better for homebrew.

Then again, Wii beats Xbox for usability and variety of software.

Since the display output on the Wii is so bad, I don't even play Wii games on the Wii anymore. I play them in 4k in Dolphin. I kept using my Xbox for homebrew up until recently.

If you tend to judge every past console based on their outdated features compared to a PC, then it's pretty obvious you don't need anything else, but a PC or Android console!

Wii doesn't even need HD resolutions for homebrew and the emulation of the classic consoles/computers, which is the core strength of this console in 2020. You can't ever beat the original intended resolutions, which only this console is capable of outputting natively, without downscalers or extra equipment. and the look of all those vintage consoles on a Sony PVM or BVM... pure bliss.

But what if someone really needs an integrated HD solution up to 1080p? Well, there goes the Wii U, which adds even more power and consoles/arcades emulated.

I'm not familiar with the XBOX HB scene but am curious to exactly what Arcade games can be played, that MAME 2003 Plus for the Wii cannot?

Out of the top of my head, i can only think of the OG Killer Instinct, which is the only one i am missing as far as my favorite games go.

 

[Tetsuo Shima]

Wow.. dead console wars? I'm in!! (well, tbh the wii deserves at least the status of un-dead console )

So, what about the wiimote controls for Scummvm? It's the perfect way to enjoy those point'n click classics from your couch.
Arcades? what about playing games like Virtua Striker 4, Mario Kart GP and others NATIVELY, thanks to Triiforce (which takes advantage of the hw GC compatibility).No Mame could do it.
VC gave me unexpected surprises, too. Starblade (only for Japan, but translated and region-free) and MDK2 (a pc game from the pentium era? now that was a real surprise!)
And ... on top of that ...
we have a Wiimpathy!!!

Nah.. there's simply no battle

 

[Kraken_X]

It supports 240p all the way up to 480p. That beats the Xbox out of the water for the purpose of the best use of the console for homebrew.


Then again, Wii beats Xbox for usability and variety of software.


If you tend to judge every past console based on their outdated features compared to a PC, then it's pretty obvious you don't need anything else, but a PC or Android console!

Wii doesn't even need HD resolutions for homebrew and the emulation of the classic consoles/computers, which is the core strength of this console in 2020. You can't ever beat the original intended resolutions, which only this console is capable of outputting natively, without downscalers or extra equipment. and the look of all those vintage consoles on a Sony PVM or BVM... pure bliss.

But what if someone really needs an integrated HD solution up to 1080p? Well, there goes the Wii U, which adds even more power and consoles/arcades emulated.


Out of the top of my head, i can only think of the OG Killer Instinct, which is the only one i am missing as far as my favorite games go.

Because the original Xbox could output in HD, SNES, GBA and other 16 or 8 bit consoles look and play just as good on Xbox as they do on pretty much anything else, even now. Throw in the UnleashX dashboard (with built in immediate FTP access at LAN speeds) and emulators that have the easiest and best UI design of any system, including to this day, and I was using my Xbox for retro gaming all the way up until my Xbox's power supply blew out about 2 years ago. The Wii never filled that gap for me, and the Xbox lasted me about 15 years until something else could. I still miss my Xbox and think about fixing it sometimes.

Meanwhile, FTP on the Wii is buried 3 layers deep under two layers of unintuitive dashboads, uploads happen at 802.11b wifi speeds, there is no equivalent to XBMC, and GBA emulators struggle to keep a consistent framerate, even with no filtering and with low resolution output. At 480p, SNES and other 16 bit consoles look worse than most other devices that could play them, even back when the Wii launched. If I remember correctly, the main emulators didn't even have save states mapable to a button. You had to exit to the menu, and point the Wiimote at the screen every time you used them.

To me, I still think of the Shield basically as a souped up Xbox with a clunky user interface. RetroArch takes the place of the all of the optimized, simple, and easy to use emulators, Kodi replaces XBMC (quite well), an unintuitive ad-filled dashboad that just plain sucks and gets worse every update, and ES file manager provides a painful experience for uploading content compared to FTP. The Shield does play PSP, Dreamcast, and GameCube games along with streaming PC games, so it's not without it's advantages though.

Wow.. dead console wars? I'm in!! (well, tbh the wii deserves at least the status of un-dead console )

So, what about the wiimote controls for Scummvm? It's the perfect way to enjoy those point'n click classics from your couch.
Arcades? what about playing games like Virtua Striker 4, Mario Kart GP and others NATIVELY, thanks to Triiforce (which takes advantage of the hw GC compatibility).No Mame could do it.
VC gave me unexpected surprises, too. Starblade (only for Japan, but translated and region-free) and MDK2 (a pc game from the pentium era? now that was a real surprise!)
And ... on top of that ...
we have a Wiimpathy!!!

Nah.. there's simply no battle

You do bring up an excellent point about controls. The Wii allowed emulation of some games that are pretty much not playable anywhere else. Point and click games are simply more fun with Wiimotes. Mario Paint from the SNES was pretty great with Wiimotes. I played NES Duck Hunt with the Wii Zapper along with SNES Super Scope games like Yoshi's Safari. The tilt controls also allowed for certain special GBA games like Yoshi Topsy Turvy and Wario Ware Twisted to be played, and I actually don't know any other way to play those.

 

[niuus]

Because the original Xbox could output in HD, SNES, GBA and other 16 or 8 bit consoles look and play just as good on Xbox as they do on pretty much anything else, even now.

8 and 16bit pixels suck on HD, specially if you're talking about low res portables. That's a fact, that's why products like the Framemeister and OSSC exist, to give modern TV users the possibility of simulating scanlines like the old times. Xbox will never be able to be connected to a CRT TV and look as a good as a Wii using 240p/double strike resolutions.

Throw in the UnleashX dashboard (with built in immediate FTP access at LAN speeds) and emulators that have the easiest and best UI design of any system, including to this day, and I was using my Xbox for retro gaming all the way up until my Xbox's power supply blew out about 2 years ago.

FTP was mandatory for the OG Xbox since there is no other native easy way of putting files in and out, that's another fact. Wii has SD and USB, which you can just plug on the PC. Let's not forget there's already access to file management homebrew on the Wii for that same purpose, even for new software downloads and up to date games and emulators, be it wireless or wired.

Meanwhile, FTP on the Wii is buried 3 layers deep under two layers of unintuitive dashboads, uploads happen at 802.11b wifi speeds, there is no equivalent to XBMC, and GBA emulators struggle to keep a consistent framerate, even with no filtering and with low resolution output.

There's FTP homebrew for those accustomed to outdated file swapping methods.

GBA on the Wii is emulated at full speed since years ago, and the console has 802.11g (with 10/100 LAN optional), just so you know.

There are so many cheapo devices that play any kind of media these days. If someone really desperately needs a Media Player on their console, WiiMC already exists, playing music and all kinds of video formats+MP4 just fine.

At 480p, SNES and other 16 bit consoles look worse than most other devices that could play them, even back when the Wii launched.

Your TV must be horrendously bad at upscaling analog signals, or whatever Wii you "compared quality" must have been connected through cheap chinese cables, not to mention you must be out of the emulation loop since the dark ages, back when emulators were text only menus.

If I remember correctly, the main emulators didn't even have save states mapable to a button. You had to exit to the menu, and point the Wiimote at the screen every time you used them.

They have, it is disabled by default. Cheating kinda sucks, so i guess most people was fine enough with pressing a button only 3 times more to load an snapshot. Again, you must be out of the emulation loop since the Homebrew Channel was born, because snapshot functions do not need Wiimote pointing, you can use any controller plugged on the console, be it wired or wireless.

You do bring up an excellent point about controls. The Wii allowed emulation of some games that are pretty much not playable anywhere else. Point and click games are simply more fun with Wiimotes. Mario Paint from the SNES was pretty great with Wiimotes. I played NES Duck Hunt with the Wii Zapper along with SNES Super Scope games like Yoshi's Safari. The tilt controls also allowed for certain special GBA games like Yoshi Topsy Turvy and Wario Ware Twisted to be played, and I actually don't know any other way to play those.

Lightgun emulation, tilt controls, USB gamepads, Xbox 360 controllers and Dualshock compatibility. Oh, let's not forget fully functional D-pads for retrogaming, something no Xbox controller could do until the Xbox One gamepad!

 

[The Real Jdbye]

The Wii doesn't display in 720p or 1080i. Even with a solid upscaler, the original Xbox will give better graphics in games and applications that support high definition, which includes most homebrew. ZSNES on Xbox even supports rewind, and N64, GBA and PS1 support is much better. Full speed with filtering. XBMC was revolutionary, and modern builds still support the new file formats, even if the Xbox struggles with 720p video.

The Wii does have better games and GC backwards compatibility, but we aren't talking about which system was better overall, just which is better for homebrew. Since the display output on the Wii is so bad, I don't even play Wii games on the Wii anymore. I play them in 4k in Dolphin. I kept using my Xbox for homebrew up until recently.

I have an Nvidia Shield that I use for homebrew now since the Xbox is underpowered for modern uses, but I still miss it's streamlined interface, custom dashboards, easy FTP access, etc.

GC still counts as it was removed in later versions of the Wii and added back through Nintendont. As the video also mentioned. Plus through homebrew you get features in GC games that it never supported officially, like using other controllers (the Wiimote+Nunchuck you already have laying around is all you need really), memory card emulation, and I believe Nintendont can even emulate the GC broadband adapter these days.
And also, the kind of stuff you can do to Wii games with homebrew (mods like Project M, CTGP-R and such) breathe new life into those old games which is also pretty cool
And you have a big library of Ocarina cheats too if you're into that.
I don't know what Xbox is like on that front though. Maybe there are some really cool mods for Xbox games I don't know about.

In the end I don't think one console is clearly superior than the other as far as homebrew is concerned, it just depends on what's more important to each individual person. But when actually making a purchase decision (since when making a purchase decision you also take into account other factors than just homebrew support) the Wii is the clear winner because of the huge library between GC and Wii games. Many of the games people would want to play on Xbox have received ports to other consoles and even to PC. Most of the Wii library will always stay exclusive due to the, shall we say unique, control method.
it doesn't really make sense to look at it from only a homebrew standpoint as that is not what people would do when actually making a purchase decision. Even if homebrew support is a big factor.

 

[Ryccardo]

Maybe there are some really cool mods for Xbox games I don't know about.

Most are for so-called AAA titles (ie FPSes), so nothing I care about compared to what you can do with codes alone on the major Wii titles

You can get live screenshots and memory editing if you convert your Xbox to (almost) a developer unit and I guess a computer with XP is easier to find (and does more) than an USB Gecko, but still not something unheard of!




My opinion is that Crazy Taxi 3, OutRun 2006, and OutRun 2 (exclusive) + a great media player > most major Wii games and WiiEarth... but that's because I've already played the latter, lol

 

[newo]

Smaller console size + controller options would have given it to the wii for me but heh its his opinion. However there is a clip of NewoFox in the video so 8/10 good video.