Hacking Upgradable or not upgradable?

[Costello]

Hi everyone,

there are many clones for the PS3 Jailbreaker now and I'd like to know which are updatable and which aren't.
We cannot rely on manufacturers claims. ShopTemp was selling the PS3BREAK from http://www.ps3break.com which claims to be upgradable.
I have a few questions, since I'm not an expert I'm hoping a few of the clever and knowledged guys around here will be able to help

1. How to make sure that a PS jailbreak is upgradable or not?
I heard something about ATMEL chips and PIC chips. Who can provide more information?

2. Which PS jailbreaks are upgradable and which aren't?
- Original $150 PS Jailbreak ?
- PS3BREAK http://www.ps3break.com ?
- USBBREAK http://www.usbbreak.com ?
- PS3KEY http://www.ps3key.com/en/ ?
- ecliPS3 http://www.eclipsemod.com/ DEFINITELY UPGRADABLE (comes blank, needs to be flashed before use)
- [insert more here] ?

3. Why are upgrades important?
Of course the easiest answer is: to bypass future protections that Sony inserts in its newer PS3 firmware updates.
Though I wonder: hackers have been able to find such an important breach on the PS3 like 5 years after its release. Is it likely that they'll just find another breach, that will be installable on a simple USB drive? I'd say it's unlikely. So I believe that if USB jailbreakers get updates, it likely wont be to bypass new protections from Sony. So are jailbreaker updates THAT important? Perhaps sceners are now going to focus on modifying firmwares such as 3.42 disabling the new protections. Or they'll just modify games that come with updates to remove said updates.
I think the "upgradable firmware" feature of most PS jailbreakers was just meant as a selling point but obviously the manufacturers have no idea if there's ever going to be updates that will allow bypassing future protections.
Though I'm wondering about the backup manager itself, is it actually located within the firmware of the jailbreaker? if it is, then that's something that could potentially be updated.

Thanks for helping me complete this thread

Needless to say once I manage to establish a list of really upgradable PS3 jailbreakers I'll try to force Shoptemp to stop selling the non-upgradable ones. Even though I don't think thats very important at the moment like I stated in #3 (but again I might be wrong).

 

[Joe88]

this seems to be another upgradable jailbreak called ecliPS3
http://www.eclipsemod.com/

edit:
it ships blank and users must flash the firmware to the chip using the upgrade utility on their site
so it is upgradable

 

[Tanas]

3. Why are upgrades important?
Of course the easiest answer is: to bypass future protections that Sony inserts in its newer PS3 firmware updates.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that one, the PS3 version of the Trucha exploit is probably now well and truly fixed.

 

[Costello]

thanks joe, I added to the list.
Tanas: yes thats the answer that people immediately think of. Thats why I added further notes.

 

[SpaceJump]

I think the "upgradable firmware" feature of most PS jailbreakers was just meant as a selling point but obviously the manufacturers have no idea if there's ever going to be updates that will allow bypassing future protections.
This is true. No one can say if 3.42 is ever to be bypassed. So the only thing is if a Jailbreaking device is technically upgradable.

QUOTEThough I'm wondering about the backup manager itself, is it actually located within the firmware of the jailbreaker? if it is, then that's something that could potentially be updated.

As far as I understand it the Backup Manager is just a prgramm/software you install to the PS3. It is not linked to the USB device directly. That's why it can be installed no matter if you have a PSGroove, PSFreedom or any PS3 Jailbreak USB dongle. The PS3Jailbreak Team, which developed the Backup Manager, claim that the upcoming Backup Manager 1.1 would only work with their USB dongle. Though I doubt this as it's just a .pkg installation file every jailbreaked PS3 can install. Tbh I have my doubts that they'll ever release it because of that. I think it's more likely that someone else (Waninoko?) will develop another alternative. Oh, I'm drifting away from the topic...

Anyway, I have a PS3Break which according to the manufacturer is upgradable. On the upper side of the dongle you can find a small button labeled "Upgrade" which should be pressed for flashing, so it should be technically upgradable. But as you wrote only time will tell if this ever happens (for all Jailbreak (I hate this term) dongles)...

However there are clones of the PS3Break minus this button, so beware buyers. I got mine from Shoptemp and it has that button

 

[xist]

Info on the PS3Break Atmel vs PIC differences and how to spot here.

 

[SpaceJump]

Info on the PS3Break Atmel vs PIC differences and how to spot here.

Yes, you can clearly see the missing button on the clone.

 

[agimann]

i just read and saw two pics of two different cases for the ps3break, shoptemp sent me the white case, not the blue case. so that means i recieved PIC chipped? while blue cased one is with atmel chip?
someone knows for sure which is which, the writings called it "white" and "pink" ....and i dont get it

edit:"I just got my 2 PS3 Breaks from Leetmod today and they are packaged in the white foam. It has the right chips not the PIC. " i got the correct one, thanks shoptemp

 

[raulpica]

1. How to make sure that a PS jailbreak is upgradable or not?
I heard something about ATMEL chips and PIC chips. Who can provide more information?
Clones which use the ATMEL chips (mainly the AT90USB family) are based on the original PSJailbreak design. Those are easily upgradable, as the device can be put in the DFU (Device Firmware Upgrade) mode using a simple button. So, if they're built correctly, they can be upgraded without much hassle using a program.

The PICs versions (usually using the 18F2550 PIC) came later, when the PSGroove sourcecode was ported to them. PICs are notoriously cheaper, but that comes at a cost, as they're a lot less versatile than the ATMEL chips. The little issue with them, is that they don't usually have a bootloader which lets you program them via USB easily. You would need an external programmer (thus you also need soldering skills) to reprogram them. There might be some boards out there with a bootloader on them, which would let you to put them in BTL (akin to DFU mode for ATMELs) mode using a button (if it has one) or by jumpering two pins (this would require opening it, though).

2. Which PS jailbreaks are upgradable and which aren't?
- Original $150 PS Jailbreak ?
- PS3BREAK http://www.ps3break.com ?
- USBBREAK http://www.usbbreak.com ?
- PS3KEY http://www.ps3key.com/en/ ?
- ecliPS3 http://www.eclipsemod.com/ DEFINITELY UPGRADABLE (comes blank, needs to be flashed before use)
- [insert more here] ?
The original PSJailbreak should be upgradeable, as the AT90USB162 can be put in DFU mode via an USB command.
Some are definitely upgradeable (the first ATMEL ones) and some _might_ be upgradeable (the PIC ones).
USBBREAK seems to be a clone of the PS3BREAK. I still haven't seen one taken apart, so I don't know what chip it mounts.
Should be upgradeable, too, since it seems to be based on the ATMEL. Also, some versions of the PS3Key called "AVRKey" will come blank. So it's most definitely upgradeable.
ecliPS3 seems to be a direct clone of the original PSJailbreak, or at least it uses the same casing. Since it's shipped blank, it should be, as you said, upgradeable.

3. Why are upgrades important?
Is it likely that they'll just find another breach, that will be installable on a simple USB drive? I'd say it's unlikely. So I believe that if USB jailbreakers get updates, it likely wont be to bypass new protections from Sony. So are jailbreaker updates THAT important? Perhaps sceners are now going to focus on modifying firmwares such as 3.42 disabling the new protections. Or they'll just modify games that come with updates to remove said updates.
I think the "upgradable firmware" feature of most PS jailbreakers was just meant as a selling point but obviously the manufacturers have no idea if there's ever going to be updates that will allow bypassing future protections.
Though I'm wondering about the backup manager itself, is it actually located within the firmware of the jailbreaker? if it is, then that's something that could potentially be updated.

They might just find another exploit which works via USB, as it's still not said if Sony has REALLY fixed the bug that well. Or they might just exploit other parts of the USB stack. We still don't know. As jailbreaking has inevitably lead to a really good access of the PS3 inner workings, there might EVEN be some kind of software exploit in the future (unlikely, as the internal security of the PS3 is pretty tight, but who knows) or some kind of savegame exploit. Right now the upgradeability isn't THAT important (as most "updates" right now are just bugfixes... except PSGroove 1.1 which added features), but it would be nice to have the capability nonetheless.

Nope, the Backup Manager is a PKG file that you install on your PS3 after jailbreaking it. So it's easily upgradeable even with a dongle which doesn't let reprogramming.

QUOTE(Costello @ Sep 19 2010, 06:03 AM)

Thanks for helping me complete this thread

Needless to say once I manage to establish a list of really upgradable PS3 jailbreakers I'll try to force Shoptemp to stop selling the non-upgradable ones. Even though I don't think thats very important at the moment like I stated in #3 (but again I might be wrong).

No problem

I hope everything I said is correct.
Might be important, or might be not. Only time will tell, sadly. Obviously, having the capability of upgrading will put you on the safe side!

 

[Joe88]

I can confirm the PS3Key is upgradable
they released an update today with the new play without disc support and applied it to mine

 

[ocdetective]

I can confirm the PS3Key is upgradable
they released an update today with the new play without disc support and applied it to mine

Have you tried updating the clone PS3Key you received as well?

 

[Joe88]

I can confirm the PS3Key is upgradable
they released an update today with the new play without disc support and applied it to mine

Have you tried updating the clone PS3Key you received as well?

I could not get it into upgrade mode, tried the same method as the ps3key but didnt work
the ps3key needs to be in upgrade mode or the program wont even see it

 

[8BitWalugi]

Hmmm... do they work on 3.50 OFW?

 

[Joe88]

still just 3.41

 

[DeltaBurnt]

As far as I understand it the Backup Manager is just a prgramm/software you install to the PS3. It is not linked to the USB device directly. That's why it can be installed no matter if you have a PSGroove, PSFreedom or any PS3 Jailbreak USB dongle. The PS3Jailbreak Team, which developed the Backup Manager, claim that the upcoming Backup Manager 1.1 would only work with their USB dongle. Though I doubt this as it's just a .pkg installation file every jailbreaked PS3 can install. Tbh I have my doubts that they'll ever release it because of that. I think it's more likely that someone else (Waninoko?) will develop another alternative. Oh, I'm drifting away from the topic...

Well it also has to do with the payload of each device. They must run certain procedures to actually allow the bluray emulation process. So some of them have those procedures deactivated to prevent possible piracy. Though if the source is included you can easily recompile it will bluray emulation enabled.