UK police warns those who post "hate crime" and threatens users with "criminal offences"

[Blue Sun]

"So you're right in a sense." ....in a sense. You can't even admit when you're wrong, lol. Also:


You misquoted me and spelled "you're" and "offense" wrong. Good job. You do know there is a spell check built into the forum, right?


That would be much easier if I had any respect for you, but as I'm sure you guessed by my comment from yesterday basically calling you an arrogant tool, I don't. I said I had no hard feelings for you, not that I had any respect for you. So again, for a 3rd time now... I'm going to try to do the right thing here and ask that we continue this argument elsewhere if you really wish to do so. Or don't, I honestly couldn't care less. I will not reply to you here again.


Uhh, isn't this about online problems, though? That is what we are talking about, isn't it? 'Cuz I mean.... yea, you're right. Some people will take that into the real world, and at that point it becomes a crime. I don't think anyone here is trying to say otherwise....

Also yes, only actions count. That's 100% correct. There was a discussion a while back on someone's blog here about how no one really cared any more when you say "sorry" for something. Pretty much that. Ever hear the phrase, "actions speak louder than words?"

It is primarily about online problems, but it is an online problem in the first place because we haven't fixed the root of where it's stemming from which exists outside of the online world, i.e. humans. If the online world didn't exist, hardly much would change. It's like taking guns from criminals; just because they don't have a gun doesn't mean they're not going to look for a knife, a metal pipe, a bomb, or god knows whatever. Ignoring the trolls online ultimately solves nothing because it will eventually start crawling back into the real world, and things will get much worse from there. The solution? Take care of the problem outside of the computer or it will get worse.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

lol, I think I already qualified for the "ass" position yesterday, but I'll keep your advice in mind, thanks. In my defense he is calling me pathetic in the quote. Ironic how pathetic it is that he can't tell a word is misspelled even when there is a little red line under it. This is why I asked him to move this elsewhere. It was eventually gonna come down to this.

You're letting them calling you "pathetic" get to this point?

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

.in a sense. You can't even admit when you're wrong, lol. Also:

Yes you're right that it wasn't a black and white fallacy but wrong in saying that it wasn't a fallacious argument at all.

You misquoted me and spelled "you're" and "offense" wrong. Good job. You do know there is a spell check built into the forum, right?

Wow, that's just pathetic, you've sunk to a whole new low.
Also:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/offence

That's how you spell it in British English, so, no I'm not wrong.

That would be much easier if I had any respect for you, but as I'm sure you guessed by my comment from yesterday basically calling you an arrogant tool, I don't. I said I had no hard feelings toward you, not that I had any respect for you. So again, for a 3rd time now... I'm going to try to do the right thing here and ask that we continue this argument elsewhere if you really wish to do so. Or don't, I honestly couldn't care less. I will not reply to you here again.

There's not point arguing with someone like you anyways.

 

[MadMageKefka]

It is primarily about online problems, but it is an online problem in the first place because we haven't fixed the root of where it's stemming from which exists outside of the online world, i.e. humans. If the online world didn't exist, hardly much would change. It's like taking guns from criminals; just because they don't have a gun doesn't mean they're not going to look for a knife, a metal pipe, a bomb, or god knows whatever. Ignoring the trolls online ultimately solves nothing because it will eventually start crawling back into the real world, and things will get much worse from there. The solution? Take care of the problem outside of the computer or it will get worse.

Lol, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but how do you propose we do this? Go door to door looking for bullies, round them up, and put them into camps? I honestly mean no disrespect with the sarcasm, I just wanna make it clear that "solving" the problem of human beings being dicks is literally impossible. It will NEVER happen.

 

[Blue Sun]

Lol, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but how do you propose we do this? Go door to door looking for bullies, round them up, and put them into camps? I honestly mean no disrespect with the sarcasm, I just wanna make it clear that "solving" the problem of human beings being dicks is literally impossible. It will NEVER happen.

Then stop acting like there's some solution to this online problem. If we can't stop humans from being dicks, we'll absolutely never solve this problem, which was what I was pointing out in the first place, so thank you for reminding me how useless "ignore the trolls" actually is and that your words have no weight in the grand scheme of things. The topic has already derailed considerably despite your "attempts" at keeping it from doing so. Here's a pro-tip for you; if words like these bother you enough that you feel a need to respond, don't. You'll feel your time better spent or whatever you value. KTHXBYE

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

@TotalInsanity4 What would you call someone who think's their view is the only right one?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

@TotalInsanity4 What would you call someone who think's their view is the only right one?

Either stubborn or narrow-minded. I think there's actually a word for it but its not coming to me

 

[MadMageKefka]

Then stop acting like there's something to be done online. If we can't stop humans from being dicks, we'll absolutely never solve this problem. Thank you for reminding me how useless "ignore the trolls" actually is.

Riiiight, because in 45 min when I go to work, I will care about this at all. I'm no troll, I'm just speaking in a somewhat harsh manner and you're getting offended, even though I specifically asked you not to, and was using the harsh tone / sarcasm for the sake of example. That's literally the entire point of this thread, correct? Saying mean things online? I literally do not care about you and have no interest in harassing you. You replied to me on a forum, obviously I'm going to respond, lol. Also, I think you messed that up? "Stop acting like there's something to be done online." ...I'm the one saying do nothing online, iirc.

I would still challenge you to answer my question. How do you propose we stop people, all over the globe, from being jerks? Seriously.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Riiiight, because in 45 min when I go to work, I will care about this at all. I'm no troll, I'm just speaking in a somewhat harsh manner and you're getting offended, even though I specifically asked you not to, and was using the harsh tone / sarcasm for the sake of example. That's literally the entire point of this thread, correct? Saying mean things online? I literally do not care about you and have no interest in harassing you. You replied to me on a forum, obviously I'm going to respond, lol. Also, I think you messed that up? "Stop acting like there's something to be done online." ...I'm the one saying do nothing online, iirc.

I would still challenge you to answer my question. How do you propose we stop people, all over the globe, from being jerks? Seriously.

I don't think he argued that we should stop them rather punish them, that way they have the liberty to do so and will be punished after the fact.

 

[MadMageKefka]

I don't think he argued that we should stop them rather punish them, that way they have the liberty to do so and will be punished after the fact.

Topic shift. Good. If I come off as closed-minded, that's fine, but I wanted to move on for that exact reason. This is a complicated topic with no clear answer, to think you are right and others are wrong is honestly the more closed-minded way of thinking to me. I have my beliefs on the matter, and I am standing by them. Your logic is obviously not sound enough to me to change my mind, and the conversation was getting more into personal bickering than the topic at hand. It was pointless and I am ending it. That being said...

I can see that, but my point is what are you going to do about places that don't enforce this with law? The internet is world-wide, remember.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Topic shift. Good. If I come off as closed-minded, that's fine, but I wanted to move on for that exact reason. This is a complicated topic with no clear answer, to think you are right and others are wrong is honestly the more closed-minded way of thinking to me. I have my beliefs on the matter, and I am standing by them. Your logic is obviously not sound enough to me to change my mind, and the conversation was getting more into personal bickering than the topic at hand. It was pointless and I am ending it. That being said...

I can see that, but my point is what are you going to do about places that don't enforce this with law? The internet is world-wide, remember.

That's the real issue at hand, the argument is that all countries should have this law.

 

[MadMageKefka]

That's the real issue at hand, the argument is that all countries should have this law.

And I'm saying that will NEVER happen. EVER. Period. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to try.

EDIT: Plus, even if it did happen by some miracle, you can hide yourself online fairly easily.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

And I'm saying that will NEVER happen. EVER. Period. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to try.

Maybe all was too general, "all" first world countries. And if they don't then we'll just have hate speech in the world.
Anyway, we should focus on laws of our own countries rather than the laws of other because at least that way those within our borders are punished.

 

[Blue Sun]

@TotalInsanity4 What would you call someone who think's their view is the only right one?

"I have a severe case of tunnel vision"?

Riiiight, because in 45 min when I go to work, I will care about this at all. I'm no troll, I'm just speaking in a somewhat harsh manner and you're getting offended, even though I specifically asked you not to, and was using the harsh tone / sarcasm for the sake of example. That's literally the entire point of this thread, correct? Saying mean things online? I literally do not care about you and have no interest in harassing you. You replied to me on a forum, obviously I'm going to respond, lol. Also, I think you messed that up? "Stop acting like there's something to be done online." ...I'm the one saying do nothing online, iirc.

I would still challenge you to answer my question. How do you propose we stop people, all over the globe, from being jerks? Seriously.

"Somewhat harsh"? Pfft. You don't harsh to me at all, more so self-righteous. If you "literally" had no interest in harassing me, you'd have not posted anything to whatever I said to whoever else (and I don't recall ever speaking to you), let alone "I would still challenge you to answer my question…" etc. Doing nothing online does not solve the issue. The online exists whether you're specifically in it or not. I could have never touched a digital device and went on the internet but that's no different than an ostrich sticking its head in the muck. You can ignore it all you want, but that doesn't make it go away; it's there and it'll be there with or without you. You say I'm offended, but what about you? There's something in your head that is keeping you here until you "go to work", and I know it's because something on this thread bothers you (which is ironically what you told me to stop being; bothered by something someone said). You know what? I think I will take your advice unlike you. And to your last question, I've already answered the question as seriously as possible, outside of literal human genocide or rewiring of the human brain for everyone (both of which are virtually unlikely to happen unless our world leaders push the nuke button and push for a heavy search every door with all occupants willing), it won't happen. In light of this, any advice to get a problem to stop is utterly useless which I somewhat hope you've recognized at some point in this thread. Have fun at work if you can.

 

[Subtle Demise]

You do know there are such things as severity in law right?
If a kid were to do it they'd be told off.

It's the same reason we have different degrees of manslaughter.

"
This offence refers to:

• deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group
• distributing racist material to the public
• making inflammatory public speeches
• creating racist websites on the Internet
• inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent."

Please do at least some research man.

Still who defines what's considered "racist"? Some people thought Resident Evil 5 was racist because most of the enemies were black (they ignored the fact that the game was set in the heart of Africa).
Let's say someone set up a website that allows users to submit jokes. A few users submit jokes that most people would consider racist in some way. Does the website owner face charges if they don't delete the jokes?
How far are they willing to take this? Does it include stand up comedy (there are several black comedians who tell jokes about white people btw)? How about music? Pink Floyd was protesting this kind of shit 40 years ago, going as far to say that Mary Whitehouse would be "good fun with a handgun." Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears with the UK government.

 

[Blue Sun]

Still who defines what's considered "racist"? Some people thought Resident Evil 5 was racist because most of the enemies were black (they ignored the fact that the game was set in the heart of Africa).
Let's say someone set up a website that allows users to submit jokes. A few users submit jokes that most people would consider racist in some way. Does the website owner face charges if they don't delete the jokes?
How far are they willing to take this? Does it include stand up comedy (there are several black comedians who tell jokes about white people btw)? How about music? Pink Floyd was protesting this kind of shit 40 years ago, going as far to say that Mary Whitehouse would be "good fun with a handgun." Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears with the UK government.

If you want to defend people's right to say whatever they want, then let them bear with the consequences instead of getting a mere slap on the wrist for doing things that are very likely to cause societal discord, and stop getting anal over it and resorting to blaming the victim for feeling offended when it's an inborn feeling to be offended. If someone wants to act deliberately racist/sexist/prejudiced for the purpose of making other people feel sub-human and enjoy it and gets killed over it, that is virtually their fault in entirety and I swear that I will have little-to-no sympathy for that person whatsoever.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Still who defines what's considered "racist"? Some people thought Resident Evil 5 was racist because most of the enemies were black (they ignored the fact that the game was set in the heart of Africa).
Let's say someone set up a website that allows users to submit jokes. A few users submit jokes that most people would consider racist in some way. Does the website owner face charges if they don't delete the jokes?
How far are they willing to take this? Does it include stand up comedy (there are several black comedians who tell jokes about white people btw)? How about music? Pink Floyd was protesting this kind of shit 40 years ago, going as far to say that Mary Whitehouse would be "good fun with a handgun." Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears with the UK government.

Legally speaking, it's when someone is deliberately doing something to harm another person based on ethnic background

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Legally speaking, it's when someone is deliberately doing something to harm another person based on ethnic background

(All answers which could've easily been google searched)

 

[MadMageKefka]

Maybe all was too general, "all" first world countries. And if they don't then we'll just have hate speech in the world.
Anyway, we should focus on laws of our own countries rather than the laws of other because at least that way those within our borders are punished.

Right. Ultimately this whole thing is about the UK, but my point is still related. You can stop the hate speech in the UK, sure. They are clearly trying, but I'm saying people need thicker skin because people will always be jerks. Even if its banned in the UK, its still gonna come from elsewhere, and you're still gonna see it. People have been racists / jerks / whatever since the dawn of man. They always have been, and they always will be. Learning to deal with it has always, and will always, be part of life. Maybe in the very distant future, we can find a way to create a true utopia, but honestly, I don't see humans as creatures capable of sustaining that sort of thing. Ever. Its just not in our nature.

"I have a severe case of tunnel vision"?

"Somewhat harsh"? Pfft. You don't harsh to me at all, more so self-righteous. If you "literally" had no interest in harassing me, you'd have not posted anything to whatever I said to whoever else (and I don't recall ever speaking to you), let alone "I would still challenge you to answer my question…" etc. Doing nothing online does not solve the issue. The online exists whether you're specifically in it or not. I could have never touched a digital device and went on the internet but that's no different than an ostrich sticking its head in the muck. You can ignore it all you want, but that doesn't make it go away; it's there and it'll be there with or without you. You say I'm offended, but what about you? There's something in your head that is keeping you here until you "go to work", and I know it's because something on this thread bothers you (which is ironically what you told me to stop being; bothered by something someone said). You know what? I think I will take your advice unlike you. And to your last question, I've already answered the question as seriously as possible, outside of literal human genocide or rewiring of the human brain for everyone (both of which are virtually unlikely to happen unless our world leaders push the nuke button and push for a heavy search every door with all occupants willing), it won't happen. In light of this, any advice to get a problem to stop is utterly useless which I somewhat hope you've recognized at some point in this thread. Have fun at work if you can.

What is this insane ramble? lmao. I don't even.... okay, let's take a shot at this...
I said something to you about a comment directed at someone else because this is a PUBLIC FORUM and that's how these things work. Its not just you and one other person. You suggested that the problem can't be solved online, and that it needed to be dealt with in the real world, at the "root of the problem." I'm asking how you think we could accomplish that? I think its impossible.

As far as being offended, lol. I honestly just find this sort of thing entertaining. That's literally it. I jump into all sorts of debates like this. Believe what you will, though. I will have fun at work, trust me. I literally get paid to play games most of the day, or anything else I want. Literally the easiest job ever. Decent pay and benefits too.

I am glad you took my advice though, and I honestly mean that. It means I accomplished something with all of this and got my point across to you. Use what you learned here today, lol.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Maybe in the very distant future, we can find a way to create a true utopia, but honestly, I don't see humans as creatures capable of sustaining that sort of thing. Ever. Its just not in our nature.

If we don't try how the fuck are we ever going to know?

Honestly, it's this kind of thinking that grinds my gears, I'd rather try something and watch it burn to ashes than never try at all.
Because when it does finally work the reward will be that much greater.

 

[MadMageKefka]

If we don't try how the fuck are we ever going to know?

Honestly, it's this kind of thinking that grinds my gears, I'd rather try something and watch it burn to ashes than never try at all.
Because when it does finally work the reward will be that much greater.

I get what you're saying, and you're right, but trying pointless things that obviously won't work isn't going to help. Thinking of better, innovative ideas will. I wish I had one to give, but obviously none of us do or this problem would already be a thing of the past. More possibilities will arise as technology progresses too. I don't think that not pursuing that particular course of action is "letting the world burn," and in the meantime, even if we do pursue it and watch it fail and burn, people still need to learn to deal with this sort of thing until something does work. Its not a fun part of life, but it is part of it.