Trump allegedly indicted in a Georgia 2020 subversion probe

[Viri]

For a man who's into lavish (albeit gaudy) golden decorum, golden showers on that list wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

I wouldn't be surprised either, but if the video existed, it would have been released ages ago. I wouldn't be mad, shocked, or surprised, I'd just think it would be funny as hell. The "grab them by the pussy recording" was pretty funny too. Just like the so called "secret video" of Trump calling someone a n****, if it existed, it would have been leaked ages ago.


We all know Trump and pretty much every politician and celebrity around today has called someone a n**** at least once in their life. I'd be more shocked if they never have at least once in their life.

 

[Xzi]

We shouldn't let the media and democrats demonize half of the population just because of Trump either.

If they don't want to be demonized, then now would be a good time to get off uncle Trumpy's treason coaster. Otherwise they might as well admit that what they desire is a dictator instead of a president, and head off to Russia to be conscripted.

Also, Republicans are less than half the VOTING population, not the overall population.

 

[Hanafuda]

I respect them, even if i disagree.

Thanks I appreciate that. Believe it or not I'm actually pretty liberal on many issues, but that's "classical liberal" i.e. govt needs to stay the fuck out of our business and just deliver the mail. But I'm also regarded as a "conservative" by just about anyone under 30 now because I got old and brought what was normal in 1980 along for the ride. Same thing's been happening to Bill Maher.

 

[lolcatzuru]

No.

He's not. He's a "libertarian" who excels at seeming erudite without actually knowing anything useful, tossing around discredited think-tanks as if they were respectable in any way and who calls deliberate trolling as other users being "playful" when it suits him.

Case in point the "let's wait for the outcome" when I remember far different tunes being sung whenever Trump wasn't involved. Then again he really wants Trump to win again because for some crazy reason a multiple-times bankrupt billionaire is now "anti-establishment".

Oh, and the correct way to address Trump is "Mr Rapist".

but that is what you said.

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2023

If they don't want to be demonized, then now would be a good time to get off uncle Trumpy's treason coaster. Otherwise they might as well admit that what they desire is a dictator instead of a president, and head off to Russia to be conscripted.

Also, Republicans are less than half the VOTING population, not the overall population.

im fine with it, we already do, might as well keep it going.

 

[Xzi]

im fine with it, we already do, might as well keep it going.

Well there you have it, never thought I'd see the day a MAGA admits they're mentally unwell. I'll personally buy your ticket to Russia so you can get the experience you're craving, but just know it's one-way.

 

[Foxi4]

I've wondered about that for a bit myself. Trump simply isn't smart enough to cook up that scheme with Pence ('we' ll just tell we're not counting the states we deem too close, and then let republican controlled senate rule in our favor'), and I don't deem his intelligence better in this case.

But take election night. As the night went on, everyone in Trump's circle conceded... Except for Giuliani (who was drunk at that time). You can't really blame Rudy for shenanigans when it's Trump choosing to follow his advice over... Well... Everyone else in the room at that time.

I admit i don't think it was a conspiracy in the early days after the election. Going by, among others, the book' peril', Trump first indicated that he lost. Not admitting it (this is Trump, after all) but accepting. Thing is: his advisors were divided, one fraction pushing for... Well... The things in this case whereas others called those crazies. Trump, however, just went along with them. And as the president, you can't really deny wrongdoings when they only do it to appease you.

Finally: the 'wasn't acted upon' i downright disagree with. It wasn't successful, at least partially because not everyone went along with the schemes (Pence being 'too honest'). But this case alone has plenty of stuff that was acted upon.

If I know Trump, and I know Trump quite a bit, me being a self-proclaimed Trumpkin and MAGAt, most (if not all) of this garbage was served to him on a platter in an attempt to impress him. Trump is the kind of person who gets things brought to him by his underlings, he has specific expectations, but doesn’t “delegate” in the traditional sense. Much like most businessmen, he gives people targets, and the target was to win. I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually was a victim of circumstance, grossly unaware of some of his less smart underlings were up to. We already know that he was grossly misinformed about the state of the election by his staff (who probably didn’t want to disappoint the guy in charge and face his ire), and when you’re operating based on faulty information, you can only be so culpable. As for the latter part, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I do read those as malicious, and frankly: i'd say the context makes that more likely, imho. I concede that it CAN be read as suggestions if you really want it, but that's just wishful thinking.

What I also read between the lines is "you're my fall guy for this one". Trump pretty much always speaks this sort of ambiguous way. I'm sure his lawyers spin that as if "well, my client merely suggested a crime... That's not illegal", but to me it's pretty much a direct order.

Then we have a very different read of the same conversation. It doesn’t come across as threatening to me whatsoever.

Thanks I appreciate that. Believe it or not I'm actually pretty liberal on many issues, but that's "classical liberal" i.e. govt needs to stay the fuck out of our business and just deliver the mail. But I'm also regarded as a "conservative" by just about anyone under 30 now because I got old and brought what was normal in 1980 along for the ride. Same thing's been happening to Bill Maher.

The Overton Window has shifted so far over the years and the two sides of the spectrum went so extreme in the last 50 or so years that it left the people in the middle stranded. I don’t think politics have been this polarising since the days of the Iron Curtain. We live in an age of hyper polarisation, having a meaningful discussion across the aisle is effectively impossible as the two sides both consider each other the enemies of the state, as opposed to two teams who have different strategies regarding the betterment of the nation. Soon enough we won’t be able to agree which way is up. I must’ve posted this graph by Pew a hundred times now, but I’ll post it again.



This is *2014*, as in pre-Trump and pre-Biden. If you tried to plot that graph today it’d resemble the Great Canyon. Unless people start listening to each other and shake hands, we’re headed towards a point of fever pitch. Realistically, odds are that both of us would be considered Democrats in the 90’s, but those days are long gone. There’s a big ‘ol gap growing between us and our neighbours, we’re “othering” each other, and that’s just not healthy. You can’t establish dialogue like that.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

but that is what you said.

No, that is what happened and I merely reported it.

Thanks I appreciate that. Believe it or not I'm actually pretty liberal on many issues, but that's "classical liberal" i.e. govt needs to stay the fuck out of our business and just deliver the mail.

That's just an euphemism for LIBERTARIAN, which is pretty far on the right of the Conservative spectrum.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberalism

 

[Xzi]

This is *2014*, as in pre-Trump and pre-Biden. If you tried to plot that graph today it’d resemble the Great Canyon. Unless people start listening to each other and shake hands, we’re headed towards a point of fever pitch.

The problem is that Republicans won't admit they got conned even if Trump is convicted on every charge. It's not an issue of "right versus left," it's an issue of "cult of personality versus reality."

He's the poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger effect. He's the dumbest person in any given room he walks into, but his entire life he's been told by sycophants that he's actually the smartest. The Republican party further fed into that delusion. That's why he believed he could get away with telling the FBI that his server room "accidentally" flooded AFTER they had requested footage from his cameras.

If he had half a brain to work with, he would've stuck to conning old ladies out of their pensions rather than trying to defraud the entire US and its voters. He's only a big fish when he's in a small pond, out in the ocean he got himself ate.

 

[Foxi4]

The problem is that Republicans won't admit they got conned even if Trump is convicted on every charge. It's not an issue of "right versus left," it's an issue of "cult of personality versus reality."

He's the poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger effect. He's the dumbest person in any given room he walks into, but his entire life he's been told by sycophants that he's actually the smartest. The Republican party further fed into that delusion. That's why he believed he could get away with telling the FBI that his server room "accidentally" flooded AFTER they had requested footage from his cameras.

If he had half a brain to work with, he would've stuck to conning old ladies out of their pensions rather than trying to defraud the entire US and its voters. He's only a big fish when he's in a small pond, out in the ocean he got himself ate.

As far as I’m concerned, the Trump presidency achieved everything I expected from it and then some, with only a handful of minor gripes which go beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[KingVamp]

Except Trump, for example, pushed abortion to the states with his picks and some states aren't just staying out of people's business.

 

[Foxi4]

Except Trump, for example, pushed abortion to the states with his picks and some states aren't just staying out of people's business.

People are free to vote for representatives that adequately advocate for their interests, and if they happen to be in the minority, the U.S. constitution guarantees freedom of movement - move to a state that better reflects your values. Roe v. Wade was bad law and was criticised from day 1 - just because you like the consequences doesn’t mean that the legal foundation was sound. Congress had 50 years to enshrine abortion into federal law and hasn’t done so - they kicked the can down the road towards the Supreme Court and left it at that, leverage your complaints there. It is not the job of the Supreme Court to legislate from the bench, their job is to determine constitutionality of the cases put before it. There’s absolutely nothing in the constitution that pertains to abortion, or even the so-called right to privacy, it is not enumerated anywhere in the document, it is not alluded to in any way and it was always something that was shoehorned in under the guise of “spirit, not letter of the law”. It appears that the spirit business didn’t work out so well this time - maybe next time put it in writing and there won’t be any confusion at all. “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” - very simple stuff. This is none of the federal government’s business, the federal government should concern itself with delivering mail, as @Hanafuda pointed out so eloquently before me.

 

[Xzi]

As far as I’m concerned, the Trump presidency achieved everything I expected from it and then some, with only a handful of minor gripes which go beyond the scope of this thread.

If he's imprisoned for the rest of his miserable life, then he will have achieved everything I could possibly want from him as well. Demonstrating that neither politicians nor oligarchs are above the law, and subversion of democracy will not be tolerated.

Except Trump, for example, pushed abortion to the states with his picks and some states aren't just staying out of people's business.

That is the worst part about debating MAGAs. They're full-on authoritarians who hypocritically kick and scream about respecting freedoms and liberties. The ruse has never been more transparent though, and the general population is quickly losing patience with it.

 

[Foxi4]

If he's imprisoned for the rest of his miserable life, then he will have achieved everything I could possibly want from him as well. Demonstrating that neither politicians nor oligarchs are above the law, and subversion of democracy will not be tolerated.

That is the worst part about debating MAGAs. They're full-on authoritarians who hypocritically kick and scream about respecting freedoms and liberties. The ruse has never been more transparent though, and the general population is quickly losing patience with it.

You can’t use the “muh freedom” excuse when the law is unconstitutional. It’s not the Supreme Court’s fault that the matter was royally screwed up half a century ago.

 

[KingVamp]

It is fine for the government to tread on people, as long as I don't like how the protection was put in place.

 

[Xzi]

You can’t use the “muh freedom” excuse when the law is unconstitutional. It’s not the Supreme Court’s fault that the matter was royally screwed up half a century ago.

Every single one of Trump's SCOTUS picks testified under oath that they would respect the precedent of Roe v Wade. It's not the court's role to chip away at rulings they disagree with on the grounds of petty partisan politics.

 

[Hanafuda]

No, that is what happened and I merely reported it.



That's just an euphemism for LIBERTARIAN, which is pretty far on the right of the Conservative spectrum.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberalism

"Classical liberalism" came well before "libertarian." But I have no problem being labelled as either. But "pretty far on the right" is not something I can agree on, because libertarian as a platform doesn't fit so conveniently on that Left < > Right continuum.

 

[CourierTX]

Wow, democracy at its finest. Whats with conservatives and stealing elections? Remember how George Bush Junior "won" against AL Gore and John Kerry?

Good Ol' Electoral College!

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2023

"Classical liberalism" came well before "libertarian." But I have no problem being labelled as either. But "pretty far on the right" is not something I can agree on, because libertarian as a platform doesn't fit so conveniently on that Left < > Right continuum.

Classical Liberalism would be 'center-right' and yes, Libertarianism cannot be judge with a Left-Right spectrum, although some of the Libertarians I've seen/known usually vote Republican, but we only really have two-parties so that's not saying much.

 

[Xzi]

"Classical liberalism" came well before "libertarian." But I have no problem being labelled as either. But "pretty far on the right" is not something I can agree on, because libertarian as a platform doesn't fit so conveniently on that Left < > Right continuum.

True, though these days a leftist libertarian is usually just called anarchist, and right-wing libertarian philosophy usually boils down to, "I love weed, but fuck poor people."

 

[stanleyopar2000]

RICO charges. State level so they can't be pardoned if he's convicted, and they carry a mandatory minimum sentence.

That is why Rudy and Teflon Don are trying to get this put into federal court...

 

[CourierTX]

If I know Trump, and I know Trump quite a bit, me being a self-proclaimed Trumpkin and MAGAt, most (if not all) of this garbage was served to him on a platter in an attempt to impress him. Trump is the kind of person who gets things brought to him by his underlings, he has specific expectations, but doesn’t “delegate” in the traditional sense. Much like most businessmen, he gives people targets, and the target was to win. I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually was a victim of circumstance, grossly unaware of some of his less smart underlings were up to. We already know that he was grossly misinformed about the state of the election by his staff (who probably didn’t want to disappoint the guy in charge and face his ire), and when you’re operating based on faulty information, you can only be so culpable. As for the latter part, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Then we have a very different read of the same conversation. It doesn’t come across as threatening to me whatsoever.
The Overton Window has shifted so far over the years and the two sides of the spectrum went so extreme in the last 50 or so years that it left the people in the middle stranded. I don’t think politics have been this polarising since the days of the Iron Curtain. We live in an age of hyper polarisation, having a meaningful discussion across the aisle is effectively impossible as the two sides both consider each other the enemies of the state, as opposed to two teams who have different strategies regarding the betterment of the nation. Soon enough we won’t be able to agree which way is up. I must’ve posted this graph by Pew a hundred times now, but I’ll post it again.

View attachment 388724

This is *2014*, as in pre-Trump and pre-Biden. If you tried to plot that graph today it’d resemble the Great Canyon. Unless people start listening to each other and shake hands, we’re headed towards a point of fever pitch. Realistically, odds are that both of us would be considered Democrats in the 90’s, but those days are long gone. There’s a big ‘ol gap growing between us and our neighbours, we’re “othering” each other, and that’s just not healthy. You can’t establish dialogue like that.

Interesting. This imo is the problem with cult of personalities and democracies that centralize their importance around the power of the president (France with Emmanuel Macron comes to mind) and what I think what is polarizing this nation is the notion that NOTHING can be done unless done in the federal level, which I think was exacerbated by Trump's 2016 campaign.