The Xbox One and Why I Hate the Gaming Community

[JoostinOnline]

I just can't disagree more - there was no reason whatsoever not to include this as a feature. The PS2 supported DVD from the start and I've never heard anyone complain about having an extra feature like that. Hell, my PS2 still reads DVD's perfectly fine - it has no laser issues whatsoever.

It was a problem for the PS2, it would have been a problem for the Wii. Frequently used Wii's already had a problem with failing drives WITHOUT an extra way to add mileage.

Are you suggesting that mileage has no effect on your drive?

 

[Foxi4]

It was a problem for the PS2, it would have been a problem for the Wii. Frequently used Wii's already had a problem with failing drives WITHOUT an extra way to add mileage.

Are you suggesting that mileage has no effect on your drive?

I'm suggesting that a crap drive is going to be crap regardless of whether or not you castrate it. The feature is natively available - it was cut out by introducing a chip which blocked recognition of discs other than Nintendo's optical format, it was not something the drive could not do. Moreover, it was not something Nintendo did to "protect the End-User's drive", it's something they introduced to cut down on piracy as before Homebrew Channel became commonplace, people just used modchips and burned DVD's.

It was not a "problem" on the PS2 - it was a feature, and back then a selling point. The PS2 did DVD's, the XBox did DVD's, the PS3 did DVD's, the 360 did DVD's. The Wii and the Gamecube did not, and the feature was restricted by hardware means - either by the shape of the drive itself or by introducing chip-based lockout. See a pattern there? Somehow it's not a problem for any other manufacturer but Nintendo.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I'm suggesting that a crap drive is going to be crap regardless of whether or not you castrate it. The feature is natively available - it was cut out by introducing a chip which blocked recognition of discs other than Nintendo's optical format, it was not something the drive could not do. Moreover, it was not something Nintendo did to "protect the End-User's drive", it's something they introduced to cut down on piracy as before Homebrew Channel became commonplace, people just used modchips and burned DVD's.

No, it was to protect them from having to pay for either:

• A drive that didn't suck
• A replacement drive when the sucky one gave out from too much use

Allowing DVD playback wouldn't have increased piracy or allowed burned games without a modchip.

 

[Foxi4]

No, it was to protect them from having to pay for either:

• A drive that didn't suck
• A replacement drive when the sucky one gave out from too much use

Allowing DVD playback wouldn't have increased piracy or allowed burned games without a modchip.

...hovewer not allowing DVD playback at all cut piracy to zero on new Wii units until USB work-arounds were developed.

I particularily like "if they gave us this feature, they would have to manufacture hardware that isn't sh*t" line of defense. Isn't that what they should be doing anyways?

We'll just have to agree to disagree here, I think.

 

[JoostinOnline]

...hovewer not allowing DVD playback at all cut piracy to zero on new Wii units until USB work-arounds were developed.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here, I think.

I don't think you have your timeline quite right. Modchips were around in 2007. USB loaders were around long before DVD playback was blocked in 2009. By that time, modchips weren't very popular anymore, so it had almost no effect on piracy.

 

[Foxi4]

I don't think you have your timeline quite right. Modchips were around in 2007. USB loaders were around long before DVD playback was blocked in 2009. By that time, modchips weren't very popular anymore, so it had almost no effect on piracy.

Introducing a hardware revision takes some time, so a "slide" like that was somewhat expected.

New consoles have to be manufactured, old consoles have to be shipped out to empty warehouses etc.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Introducing a hardware revision takes some time, so a "slide" like that was somewhat expected.

New consoles have to be manufactured, old consoles have to be shipped out to empty warehouses etc.

In your (innacurate) scenario, "slide" = over 2 years. It was actually about 6 months. USB "workarounds" (even though they weren't workarounds) were developed like a year before they started.

But even if that's what you meant, it still had almost no affect on piracy. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it brought it to zero.

 

[Foxi4]

But even if that's what you meant, it still had almost no affect on piracy. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it brought it to zero.

Let me rephrase that. It brought disc-based loading methods on new Wii's to a screeching halt (which is what I meant all along) - how's that?

 

[JoostinOnline]

Let me rephrase that. It brought disc-based loading methods on new Wii's to a screeching halt (which is what I meant all along) - how's that?

Accurate, although it was nearing it's own halt anyway. But regardless, piracy has nothing to do with why DVD playback wasn't included on the Wii, or why Blueray playback isn't included on the Wii U. Nintendo just wanted to save money by not having to replace drives that ended up being used too much.

 

[Foxi4]

Accurate, although it was nearing it's own halt anyway. But regardless, piracy has nothing to do with why DVD playback wasn't included on the Wii, or why Blueray playback isn't included on the Wii U. Nintendo just wanted to save money by not having to replace drives that ended up being used too much.

Here's where we disagree - those features were not introduced because Nintendo thought that the cons (them having to pay royalties to the owners of those two formats) outweighed the benefits (the users being able to watch movies on their systems) - it's really that simple.

The moment DVD capabilities were unlocked on the Wii, they began working on methods to cut it out for good. Users who installed Homebrew Channel and DVDX, thus unlocking the capabilities wouldn't be able to replace their drive via official means anyways unless they wiped the system clean of any traces of Homebrew Channel, and that was a real b*tch to do back then. I know, I've had a Wii for a very long time and I remember the days before ModMii and the more advanced *.WAD Managers.

I respect your opinion as a Wii developer, but I have to respectfuly disagree - the move was made so that Nintendo gets more money in their pockets by not paying royalties per system sold and for no other reason, then it was blocked with an additional chip modification to cut down on piracy, as USB piracy was unstoppable at that point anyways.

 

[The Milkman]

Wait, wait, wait. Your upset, about what the GAMING community has become? Sorry to alert you brother, but this aint 1993 where people think reasonably.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Here's where we disagree - those features were not introduced because Nintendo thought that the cons (them having to pay royalties to the owners of those two formats) outweighed the benefits (the users being able to watch movies on their systems) - it's really that simple.

I agree with that. But I think that there is more to it (although it's also related to them making more money). I guess we'll leave it at that.

And for the record, I've had a Wii since launch and I've been following modding status since Team Twiizers.

 

[Nathan Drake]

To get back on topic, as this devolved into pretty much debating why Nintendo chooses to not let you play DVD's:

teh xbawkz wun is st00pid!

Continue.

 

[chyyran]

There are valid concerns, Kinect always watching you, and I know for a fact that the TV features of the X1 will not work for me, due to a cable box that's needed to decrypt the encrypted TV signal. No used games is also a bummer, many people choose to buy used games because of the lower price point. The only way Steam, and Steam-like services, including the inability to re-distribute digital copies, is only justifiable because of the lower price that the game is available at. Unless Microsoft will offer discounts for brand new games in the weeks after release, a common practice in Steam's, and other PC distribution services' business models, and discount and reduce the price of old games, then only will the inability to resell games be justifiable. Of course, Microsoft has confirmed a system where you can trade used digital copies, but who knows how MS will curate that? In order to provide a profit margin, would there be a meaningful discount for buying used games?

Spoiler: And now for obligatory related gif

 

[Foxi4]

There are valid concerns, Kinect always watching you,

Your phone knows where you are (location data, BTS triangulation, GPS location), your GPS knows your exact location as well, Google owns all the files you upload, no matter how private and you worry about a little camera that watches your movement and doesn't send a feed anywhere.

and I know for a fact that the TV features of the X1 will not work for me, due to a cable box that's needed to decrypt the encrypted TV signal.

Nobody forces you to use them.

No used games is also a bummer, many people choose to buy used games because of the lower price point.

Nobody said there won't be any used games. To the contrary, Microsoft was pretty clear about that - they said that used games will work and they're working on an activation system for those as well. They've already mentioned re-selling games over XBox Live.

The only way Steam, and Steam-like services, including the inability to re-distribute digital copies, is only justifiable because of the lower price that the game is available at.

...what if you could re-sell digital copies? Microsoft is introducing a system based on software activation, not owning the actual software. Whether you have the software installed or not or whether you have the disc is no longer important - what's important is that you have it registered so for all intents and purposes, they can and might introduce a system of trading the activation codes. The new owner of the license would simply re-download - it's that simple.

Unless Microsoft will offer discounts for brand new games in the weeks after release, a common practice in Steam's, and other PC distribution services' business models, and discount and reduce the price of old games, then only will the inability to resell games be justifiable.

The "inability" that was debunked already.

Of course, Microsoft has confirmed a system where you can trade used digital copies, but who knows how MS will curate that? In order to provide a profit margin, would there be a meaningful discount for buying used games?

Here you just contradict yourself. Earlier you said you can't re-sell used games, now you say you can (because you can), except Microsoft oversees it. I'd laugh my pants off if they introduced an auction system that allows the seller to put up any price he/she wants for a given game... or better yet, a system of sending games as gifts like on Steam. Oh, that'd be a field day of all field days.

I'll be honest - Microsoft announced a few innovations and most of those can turn out either horribly bad or... incredibly good and game-changing. Of course the Internet is the Internet and users will assume the worst, but let's not jump to conclusions before we have more information.

 

[Isaac]

I personally all for the next gen consoles, but my friends discredit the xbox one for one reason and one reason only.... the only reason thy have for not liking it, and are saying that the entire console sucks, it because it looks like a VCR... I don't see it.

 

[Foxi4]

I personally all for the next gen consoles, but my friends discredit the xbox one for one reason and one reason only.... the only reason thy have for not liking it, and are saying that the entire console sucks, it because it looks like a VCR... I don't see it.

I got that impression at first - the front view is terrible. The close-ups and the side view isn't all that bad though... so I think I'll judge it once I see it live.

It does look a lot like a VCR and definitely not like a console, but I'm guessing that's because they want to attract the TiVo/Augmented TV crowd, stealing customers from Apple and Google. Why else would they put so much effort into including all the TV-related functionality?

 

[Deleted_171835]

I got that impression at first - the front view is terrible. The close-ups and the side view isn't all that bad though... so I think I'll judge it once I see it live.

It does look a lot like a VCR and definitely not like a console, but I'm guessing that's because they want to attract the TiVo/Augmented TV crowd, stealing customers from Apple and Google. Why else would they put so much effort into including all the TV-related functionality?

From the very beginning, Microsoft's initial goal with the Xbox was to "own" the living room. Their focus on TV, TV, TV with the Xbox One may come as a surprise to some but it was really their true intention all along, gaming was always a secondary focus. That's why they pumped so much money into the OG Xbox (to gain marketshare) and why they were so aggressive with the 360 (which worked out quite well for them making the 360 #1 console right now in NA).

 

[Foxi4]

From the very beginning, Microsoft's initial goal with the Xbox was to "own" the living room. Their focus on TV, TV, TV with the Xbox One may come as a surprise to some but it was really their true intention all along, gaming was always a secondary focus. That's why they pumped so much money into the OG Xbox (to gain marketshare) and why they were so aggressive with the 360 (which worked out quite well for them making the 360 #1 console right now in NA).

Oh, that approach shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone, really. The dedicated game console days are long gone - the shift towards media centers began way back when Audio-CD's were introduced, add DVD, Blu-ray and Online (both browsing and streaming media of all sorts) that and the progress curve shows where we're heading pretty well. The only company that seems to live in a bubble and doesn't notice the trend is Nintendo...

...then again, they did allow Netflix and other such services to enter their infrastructure... so who knows, maybe they're embracing the idea, just not as strongly.

 

[Forstride]

I'm glad you made this thread, OP, because it's exactly how I feel as well. We were only shown a small portion of the console, and already, people are calling it shit. Then there was supposedly "confirmed" information like the used game fee, which several large gaming news sites wrote articles on, that turned out to be false, and the community STILL thinks they're true.

And then we have the whole circlejerk over being able to "watch TV on your TV" and the other retarded shit people have been saying. People complaining about the lack of games shown, even though that wasn't the point of the reveal, AND they said there would be plenty of games shown at E3.

I'm not going to call the console good or bad yet, because we were only shown a very small portion of it. People shouldn't make judgements on either side of it until there is more info.