Project Steamboy - The Portable Steam Machine

VMM

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I'm not saying that it's going to run on i7 Extreme, I'm saying that it's likely to run on AMD's Jaguar which is an architecture known for low-powered PC solutions, it's unlikely to run on a low-powered smartphone-grade Atom because those do not have enough juice to play Steam games, the bare and essential purpose of the Steamboy being just that - playing Steam games. It will be "high end" for mobile devices, but not "high end" for gaming in general. ;)

It won't be high-end for gaming in general and it won't use Jaguar CPU.
What part of PC CPUs don't work on handhelds didn't you understand?
We already discussed that.
 

Foxi4

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It won't be high-end for gaming in general and it won't use Jaguar CPU. What part of PC CPUs don't work on handhelds didn't you understand? We already discussed that.
Why won't it use a Jaguar CPU when some of the models in the microarchitecture are both embeddable and go as low as 3.9W in terms of power consumption? Which part of "x86_64 is x86_64" is confusing? The Jaguar line was literally designed as AMD's entry into the mobile CPU market and a replacement to the Bobcat series, it absolutely can be used in mobile devices. For example, the GX-420CA has a BGA size of 24.5mm x 24.5 mm - that's about as big as a Tegra CPU and it needs marginally more power.
 

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Why won't it use a Jaguar CPU when some of the models in the microarchitecture are both embeddable and go as low as 3.9W in terms of power consumption? Which part of "x86_64 is x86_64" is confusing? The Jaguar line was literally designed as AMD's entry into the mobile CPU market and a replacement to the Bobcat series, it absolutely can be used in mobile devices. For example, the GX-420CA has a BGA size of 24.5mm x 24.5 mm - that's about as big as a Tegra CPU and it needs marginally more power.

Okay, I think I made a confusion.
As Atom CPUs, there are also Jaguar CPUs made for mobile, and those are the ones you're talking about, right?
That could actually be the case, although they could use something better as the Kaveri series.

Prove it.

/fucking retarded argument.

Lets start with the obvious things and work our way down.
Physically different form factors of systems have different ways of interfacing with your motherboard - you can't get a desktop LGA or PGA processor into a smaller laptop socket with a different pinout. Phones and some laptops also use soldered on BGA processors. You'd be trying to fit a 1/4 inch peg into a 1/2 inch hole.
You'd also need 'motherboard' level support - with PCs this would be in the bios/uefi firmware to be able to bootstrap the processor. Intel's sandy bridge and ivy bridge processors shared a socket, and could be swapped between boards of either generation, but sandy bridge boards needed a firmware update. As such your firmware would need to be able to communicate with either.
Secondly, they run different Instruction Set Architectures . Assuming you had a magical motherboard with a chipset that could speak to both a specific ARM and Intel chip... none of your software would work without a compatibility layer. You could in theory outfit an OS to run software from another architecture, like rosetta, but simply swapping chips would result in breakage in software. And this is assuming a hypothetical magical system, that is compatible with two completely different chip designs!
In short, if you had two chips with ISA compatibility, identical pin outs and firmware support, you could swap them. If you tried to put an arm chip into a intel board, or a intel processor into a arm phone (which would be monumentally stupid considering phones have soldered on processors), things would very likely not work. Things might burn out since pinouts are different. It simply would be a disaster.
Finally, clock speeds of processors these days has less and less relevance to actual performance. There was a massive dip in processor clock speed post pentium IV on intel processors. Comparing clock speeds is useful within the same family and generation of processors taking into account cache and core count. Comparing an arm processor and a intel processor of identical speeds properly would mean throwing carefully designed sets of work at them to see how they perform.
 

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Okay, I think I made a confusion. As Atom CPUs, there are also Jaguar CPUs made for mobile, and those are the ones you're talking about, right? That could actually be the case, although they could use something better as the Kaveri series.
The only difference between the Atom CPU's found in laptops and the "embeddable" ones is the BGA package they come in - they're based on the exact same technology which was my point all along. Yes, they could use even newer technology, the Kabini line was just an example. That said, they probably won't go for the "latest and greatest" CPU as that's rarely the case - there's usually a 1-2 year gap between creating a new microarchitecture and introducing it in products. Then again, that gap's been shrinking over the years.
Secondly, they run different Instruction Set Architectures.
We were comparing x86_64 chips, so instruction set differences, architecture differences or compatibility issues are non-existant within the same chip family - we acknowledge that ARM and x86 are completely different architectures, that's what we're driving at - this thing won't be ARM-powered.
 

VMM

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The only difference between the Atom CPU's found in laptops and the "embeddable" ones is the BGA package they come in - they're based on the exact same technology which was my point all along. Yes, they could use even newer technology, the Kabini line was just an example. That said, they probably won't go for the "latest and greatest" CPU as that's rarely the case - there's usually a 1-2 year gap between creating a new microarchitecture and introducing it in products. Then again, that gap's been shrinking over the years.
We were comparing x86_64 chips, so instruction set differences, architecture differences or compatibility issues are non-existant within the same chip family - we acknowledge that ARM and x86 are completely different architectures, that's what we're driving at - this thing won't be ARM-powered.

Atom is a real special case where little had to be adjusted to make it viable in mobile devices.
Most PC CPUs won't run on mobiles, that's what I've been saying all along.
Also, remember that those motherboards that run Atom CPUs, where made specially for having this compability.
 

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Atom is a real special case where little had to be adjusted to make it viable in mobile devices.
Most PC CPUs won't run on mobiles, that's what I've been saying all along.
Also, remember that those motherboards that run Atom CPUs, where made specially for having this compability.
I can assure you that there's no distinct reason why desktop CPU's are "desktop", the only two concerns here are energy consumption and heat emission, both can be lowered by a smaller lithography and less "juice" - other than that, the "mobile" x86 CPU families are in every way identical to their bigger desktop siblings. I get your point and I'm not contesting the fact that you can't put a CPU requiring +/- 100W of power and active cooling with a huge radiator and a fan in a mobile device and expect it to work properly, but that doesn't mean that a mobile equivalent that doesn't run into either of those problems is any less of a CPU than its more power-hungry sibling.
 

VMM

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I can assure you that there's no distinct reason why desktop CPU's are "desktop", the only two concerns here are energy consumption and heat emission, both can be lowered by a smaller lithography and less "juice" - other than that, the "mobile" x86 CPU families are in every way identical to their bigger desktop siblings. I get your point and I'm not contesting the fact that you can't put a CPU requiring +/- 100W of power and active cooling with a huge radiator and a fan in a mobile device and expect it to work properly, but that doesn't mean that a mobile equivalent that doesn't run into either of those problems is any less of a CPU than its more power-hungry sibling.

Like I said before:
In short, if you had two chips with ISA compatibility, identical pin outs and firmware support, you could swap them.
 

Foxi4

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Like I said before: In short, if you had two chips with ISA compatibility, identical pin outs and firmware support, you could swap them.
Nobody said anything about swapping CPU's at any point in time - that's entirely a matter of the package design and, as you mention, pinout. What we're (continuously) saying is that the mobile and non-mobile CPU's within the same family are compatible and more broadly, x86_64 CPU's in general are compatible with each other to a large extent.
 

kuwanger

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Why was Steam Boy (the movie) a failure? Because about midway through the story you recognize the whole plot gravitates around a glorified, "miracle" battery (with ridiculous battery life). Why will Steamboy (the portable Steam Machine) be a failure? The battery (life).
 

shadow1w2

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Well that D-pad looks horrible.
Hopefully they'll change that.

If this is real then I have to say I'm pretty interested.
Pretty much its just a PC made portable and hopefully we can install special flavors of SteamOS and Linux onto it for limitless possibilities and uses.
A lack of touch screen is what I'll suspect and that should lower the price a bit hopefully.
Battery life may also be a big issues but the main draw for me is how open a system will it be.

I was thinking of grabbing a cheap SteamBox anyway so if this thing has lots of features and open to modification I might get that instead.
Hopefully it won't be too pricey but hey, it'll play lots of games I already have so that justifies it a bit.
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

Heh random thought but think aobut all the poeple playing Garry's Mod on the go xD
Get out an android phone that sets up a wifi network or battery power a wifi router and go to town easy on just about anything that runs Linux.
Lets not forget emulator possibilities, might need a CPU speed up but I really wanna play F-zero GX on the go one day... eh now I'm dreaming too much.
 

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serious? it looks like a fusion of a gameboy and a playstation controller... and those "d-pads" look horrible as well.

but on the other hand, maybe you can connect the steamboy to your steamTV (whats its name anyway?) and act like the wiiU
 

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This would interest me if it had real analogue sticks.

As for platform, AMD Jaguar Temash wouldn't handle a modern PC game, and Kabini with sufficient clock rate for PC games would be a pig on batteries. It's suitable for a netbook or maybe a large tablet, but I don't think you could fit a battery big enough in the Steamboy to power it for long.
Intel Silvermont Baytrail is efficient enough, but the graphics component is not enough for most PC games.
Honestly I don't think any x86 SOC are ready yet for quality mobile PC gaming.
Intel's Airmont Cherrytrail might do it, if they significantly improve the graphics.
 

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Why was Steam Boy (the movie) a failure? Because about midway through the story you recognize the whole plot gravitates around a glorified, "miracle" battery (with ridiculous battery life). Why will Steamboy (the portable Steam Machine) be a failure? The battery (life).
If the battery is in the rear compartment then it appears to be pretty sizable, actually. Of course this is only a render, so things might still change a lot, we'll see what comes out of this next year, maybe.
 

zeello

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derp, I only just found out that this has nothing to do with Valve. I should learn to read more.

that could be a bad thing. I guess that makes it nothing more than a Steambox crammed into a portable meaning it will probably cost four thousand dollars, or be woefully underspec'ed
 

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Nobody said anything about swapping CPU's at any point in time - that's entirely a matter of the package design and, as you mention, pinout. What we're (continuously) saying is that the mobile and non-mobile CPU's within the same family are compatible and more broadly, x86_64 CPU's in general are compatible with each other to a large extent.

I quoted the exact words that I said.
What I said in the OP was, you could use a mobile CPU on a PC and vice-versa since
it has ISA compability, firmware support and a pin out compatible with the motherboard.
Also it obviously needs to fit in the socket.
 

kuwanger

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If the battery is in the rear compartment then it appears to be pretty sizable, actually. Of course this is only a render, so things might still change a lot, we'll see what comes out of this next year, maybe.


That's the second part of the paradox. To be a sizable battery of the sort would also make the thing ridiculously heavy. Not necessarily in the "is it really portable?" that the first portable computers were but in the "ow, my arms hurt because this thing weights two to three times the next closest system and it still doesn't seem to have that stellar of battery life". That's not to say there won't be people buying it just like lots of people bought PSPs and Game Gears. It's just that unless Valve is expecting to be a third place competitor, I can only imagine them being disappointed when they see the (relatively) few buyers into a system better suited as a console.

Of course I could end up being completely off base on my projections. It's just that at some level it seems clear that either various compromises will have to be made (use a non-x86 processor and give up a lot of game support to get decent battery life, use a huge battery and still get mediocre battery life while having heat/injury issues for the user, underclock the CPU massively and only support a smaller selection of games until a later model can improve the battery life issue, etc) or suffer a reputation on having horrible battery life and be glossed over by a lot of people who already suffer enough with their sucky battery life phone of which they only tolerate because, well, it's a phone (and no, Steamboy being a phone too is another N-Gage waiting to happen).

Besides, everyone knows they should use Cryamore technology. :)
 

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