Hardware Nintendo Switch Technical Specifications Discussion

[Foxi4]

It may not support PCIe 3.0 x4 but this thing is at least usb 3.1 gen 2 with higher than 12w power delivery and.
Usb-c ports possibly have 4 or more lanes of data that is enough for pcie 3.0 while a standard 3.1 gen 2 controller occupies two gen 2. That's why Intel can make thunderbolt in the first place. Proper hardware can make use of that. That said, I do not believe Nintendo will allow it either.

Thunderbolt works by bursting data through a controller, it's not as simple as exposing lanes. Connecting a GPU through USB alone is not enough, there needs to be a whole software and hardware layer surrounding it, which is why most eGPU solutions connect to PCIe, directly or indirectly. Having bandwidth is well and good, but there's tons of other issues to contend with, for instance addressing space. It's not a solution used extensively in desktops and it won't b used here. The appeal of USB-C is that it's Thunderbolt-ready, but that's only relevant on Intel-based machines. It circumvents the shortcomings of USB which are present here.

It'll be a helluva bargain price : performance-wise, no doubt. Still I question this device's ability to do VR properly even on a basic level with a 720p display. Unless they also thought of that and concentrated pixels to be denser in certain areas of the screen, but that would almost be over-designing for VR specifically. Hell, based on all these new developments, what do I know, maybe Nvidia found a way to simulate that effect. More likely than not that aspect of the device will be the worst part of it, and drain battery the quickest nonetheless.

That said, I don't blame Nintendo for wanting to focus on making this the best next-gen gameboy/SNES hybrid that'll run most PC ports in 720p/1080p just fine.

VR on the Switch is a tall order, even in docked mode. It'd be nothing like PSVR, rather more like smartphone VR, which is pretty useless. It just doesn't have the brawn for it, I don't think, so I don't expect it. Even on the stock PS4, which is almost twice as beefy as this, VR chugs and barely works - nah. It's not fit for purpose.

 

[Xzi]

VR on the Switch is a tall order, even in docked mode. It'd be nothing like PSVR, rather more like smartphone VR, which is pretty useless. It just doesn't have the brawn for it, I don't think, so I don't expect it.

Yeah Nintendo patented a VR headset for the Switch, but I seriously doubt they'll use the patent. They just didn't want anyone else making a HMD for Switch.

 

[Foxi4]

Yeah Nintendo patented a VR headset for the Switch, but I seriously doubt they'll use the patent. They just didn't want anyone else making a HMD for Switch.

Oh, I'm sure they can achieve the effect - it's the compatible software that matters. You can make a game with 10 polygons and make it VR, the question is who's going to play it. Nintendo patents stuff all the time and most of the patents are never used.

 

[Yil]

Thunderbolt works by bursting data through a controller, it's not as simple as exposing lanes. Connecting a GPU through USB alone is not enough, there needs to be a whole software and hardware layer surrounding it, which is why most eGPU solutions connect to PCIe, directly or indirectly. Having bandwidth is well and good, but there's tons of other issues to contend with, for instance addressing space. It's not a solution used extensively in desktops and it won't b used here. The appeal of USB-C is that it's Thunderbolt-ready, but that's only relevant on Intel-based machines. It circumvents the shortcomings of USB which are present here.

What I am saying is that there are more than 4 data lanes and some huge power lanes inside the physical usb-c female connector, all of them. (and most male cables cannot make full use of it) Yes, thunderbolt controller is trying to push all the data through that port, which can be used to connect a gpu through x4 mode, and it have some problems achieving some functions, but it has demonstrated the capacity.
USB-C is thunderbolt-ready, which means if Nvidia bothered, they can also make use of those data lanes, even have a higher frequency of signal to achieve higher bandwidth, but probably won't waste resource on them. That said, direct connection can be much better than running through thunderbolt cables.

 

[Xzi]

Oh, I'm sure they can achieve the effect - it's the compatible software that matters. You can make a game with 10 polygons and make it VR, the question is who's going to play it. Nintendo patents stuff all the time and most of the patents are never used.

Hmm we do need to consider that re-projection could be a factor with VR, though. Essentially allowing 60 FPS where the hardware might only allow 30. Or if the hardware hits 45 you could get 90 FPS. I guess what you could get to 45 FPS on ~450GFlops wouldn't be all that impressive. Wouldn't that still be better than an X360, though? By nearly double?

Bigger issue I think would be SDE with a 720p screen. Even with semi-impressive graphics you'd be too distracted by the giant black lines between pixels.

 

[Foxi4]

What I am saying is that there are more than 4 data lanes and some huge power lanes inside the physical usb-c female connector, all of them. (and most male cables cannot make full use of it) Yes, thunderbolt controller is trying to push all the data through that port, which can be used to connect a gpu through x4 mode, and it have some problems achieving some functions, but it has demonstrated the capacity.
USB-C is thunderbolt-ready, which means if Nvidia bothered, they can also make use of those data lanes, even have a higher frequency of signal to achieve higher bandwidth, but probably won't waste resource on them. That said, direct connection can be much better than running through thunderbolt cables.

There's a whole bunch of legal and technical nonsense that goes into using such technology and proprietary controllers, and it goes beyond what a company wants or what the physical appearance of the port is. For example, upon inspecting most mPCIe ports on laptops you will quickly notice that despite looking identical they can include mSATA, PCIe and USB in very varied configurations depending on what they're meant to do. Most are used as wireless board docks, so they only carry USB despite being mPCIe - the lanes are not connected at all. It's similar with USB-C. In order to properly carry 4 lanes of PCIe without a controller, you need receiver and transmitter wires divided into +/- pairs, a reference clock pair and hopefully SMBUS for reporting purposes, and that's without power. This is why eGPU's used x1 PCIe until recently - that kind of traffic needs to be bursted through a controller on less wires, otherwise it's inconvenient. It can be done, but few mobile devices use this tech. Just because it's USB-C doesn't mean it's a full implementation, so to speak. I agree, Nintendo probably won't go through the trouble.

Hmm we do need to consider that re-projection could be a factor with VR, though. Essentially allowing 60 FPS where the hardware might only allow 30. Or if the hardware hits 45 you could get 90 FPS. I guess what you could get to 45 FPS on ~450GFlops wouldn't be all that impressive. Wouldn't that still be better than an X360, though? By nearly double?

It would be, but is it enough? If anything, I'd expect them to release an HDMI splitter "octopus" akin to the one used in PSVR to use a headset and the TV simultaneously and still take advantage of the full clock of docked mode, but that remains to be seen.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

So right now we have:
Local multiplayer with joy cons held sideway and shoulder buttons.
Motion and IR in addition to using the hidden shoulder buttons that might be somewhat optimized for vr.
Multitouch screen with 720p and 6-inch-ish screen that could be 6.2'' or 6.8''. If Nintendo wanted they could even add a professional stylus.
Gyro in the tablet.
Close range communication that are not found on smart devices.
USB 3.1 that can do many different things, including proving up to 100w of power, dual usb 3.0 or video output.
Decent battery.
Support gaming on a toilet.
Also have some more power if needed.
Possible refresh with Volta that might allow it to catch up to PS4 Pro.

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@TheDarkGreninja I cannot keep up with the pace of update right now.

A volta refresh probably wont happen until Volta's succesor is released.

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Seeing as how VR isnt really a portable experience nintendo could easily use the SCD for just VR.

 

[KingVamp]

I wasn't expecting anything over 720p, especially Full HD. Would be sacrificing too many other things. I figured that there would be a portable mode, but didn't think it would be cut down by 1/2.

Having indie/small titles for VR and theater mode for other games would be a nice option to have.

 

[Yil]

A volta refresh probably wont happen until Volta's succesor is released.

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Seeing as how VR isnt really a portable experience nintendo could easily use the SCD for just VR.

I think there will be a good while of rebranding after hitting 7nm.

 

[Xzi]

If anything, I'd expect them to release an HDMI splitter "octopus" akin to the one used in PSVR to use a headset and the TV simultaneously and still take advantage of the full clock of docked mode, but that remains to be seen.

I kinda think that's even less likely because that would mean releasing an HMD with its own displays, which would be considerably more pricey to customers and still be capped at 1080p. If they do release an HMD, Switch will probably just click into it, and the content will be light Nintendo fluff, nothing with a lot of substance or challenge. The N64 Mario face to play with in VR, that type of thing.

 

[tronic307]

I don't think the SOC is Pascal. The low clocks indicate either more shaders than TX1 or a larger process. If it were 16nm the CPU wouldn't need to be downclocked to 1GHz. Hopefully, the 4 A53 cores from TX1 would be used to run the OS so devs get full access to the 4 A57s for games, but there's no mention of additional cores so far. Dual channel LPddr4 would be nice, but that wouldn't even be necessary unless there are 3 or 4 SMs. I just hope it's not 2 SMs at 28nm, though the low clocks coupled with aggressive cooling are starting to make this look like more of a possibility.

 

[Yil]

I don't think the SOC is Pascal. The low clocks indicate either more shaders than TX1 or a larger process. If it were 16nm the CPU wouldn't need to be downclocked to 1GHz. Hopefully, the 4 A53 cores from TX1 would be used to run the OS so devs get full access to the 4 A57s for games, but there's no mention of additional cores so far. Dual channel LPddr4 would be nice, but that wouldn't even be necessary unless there are 3 or 4 SMs. I just hope it's not 2 SMs at 28nm, though the low clocks coupled with aggressive cooling are starting to make this look like more of a possibility.

1.) Eurogamers weren't necessarily 100% trustworthy. A73, being the smallest high performance cpu available and most suited to save space for gpu while retaining high performance, should easily hit double the clock.
2.) The latest Master build of UE4, which is not rumour, has demonstrated the switch with great performance. That means it's much beefier than tegra x1.
3.) TSMC's 16nm is cheaper and better than 20nm (most importantly cheaper). Nintendo will be making the same mistake all over again to choose 28nm and if Nvidia wants a long term relationship they will want to make sure Nintendo is up to date.

 

[Foxi4]

I kinda think that's even less likely because that would mean releasing an HMD with its own displays, which would be considerably more pricey to customers and still be capped at 1080p. If they do release an HMD, Switch will probably just click into it, and the content will be light Nintendo fluff, nothing with a lot of substance or challenge. The N64 Mario face to play with in VR, that type of thing.

Not necessarily. There's no issues with connecting power and HDMI to the Switch if it's clipped in, the only problem would be the whizzing fan, but if it's quiet enough, that's fine. That's why I figured a "cable octopus" is a likely solution here.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

So we know this is a custom maxwell chip and thats about it? No way its an ordinary X1, and that leads me to my next point, maybe calling it based on X1 is a bit of a misnomer seeing as how right now the only things they share in common is the GPU architecture which isnt much to go off of. As for A57 it would be much smarter to ues A73 for the aspects @Yil stated. Anyone think this might have Denver cores?

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Not necessarily. There's no issues with connecting power and HDMI to the clipped into switch - the only problem would've be the whizzing fan, but if it's quiet enough, that's fine.

You probably wont even hear the fan if you have headset on which is more likely than not.

 

[AtlasFontaine]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851139553456128

For the record, this matches with the Foxconn leak that said that the tablet has a 1080p display...

(This guy is a wallstreet journal technology reporter in tokyo and a very reliable source btw).

EDIT: Also:

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851248106283008

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811850362785148928

Thoughts?

 

[DrkBeam]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851139553456128

For the record, this matches with the Foxconn leak that said that the tablet has a 1080p display...

(This guy is a wallstreet journal technology reporter in tokyo and a very reliable source btw).

EDIT: Also:

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851248106283008

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811850362785148928

Thoughts?

I don't what to think, at least it seems promising at the software side, 1080p and 1444p it's the first time I read from a reliable source

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851139553456128

For the record, this matches with the Foxconn leak that said that the tablet has a 1080p display...

(This guy is a wallstreet journal technology reporter in tokyo and a very reliable source btw).

EDIT: Also:

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811851248106283008

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/811850362785148928

Thoughts?

He is usueally correct at times, however when he tweets make sure hes not reporting from what someone else says seeing as how he said parker even though he reported someone else saying it, otherwise a very reliable source.

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I don't what to think, at least it seems promising at the software side, 1080p and 1444p it's the first time I read from a reliable source

I think he means stream 1444p bt this machine could run games at that resolution.

 

[AtlasFontaine]

He is usueally correct at times, however when he tweets make sure hes not reporting from what someone else says seeing as how he said parker even though he reported someone else saying it, otherwise a very reliable source.

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I think he means stream 1444p bt this machine could run games at that resolution.

At this point, I would say that Eurogamer's rumor and this one contradict each other.

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https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/811877626059124736
https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/811884417690046464

And now emily rogers joins the battle, I wouln't take too much her word because I feel some doubt in her claims...

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

At this point, I would say that Eurogamer's rumor and this one contradict each other.

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https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/811877626059124736
https://twitter.com/ArcadeGirl64/status/811884417690046464

And now emily rogers joins the battle, I wouln't take too much her word because I fell some doubt in her claims...

Pretty much yeah, however, I'd trust the WSJ more than EG. they did get the hybrid part of the switch months before anyone else.

 

[Xzi]

Not necessarily. There's no issues with connecting power and HDMI to the Switch if it's clipped in, the only problem would be the whizzing fan, but if it's quiet enough, that's fine. That's why I figured a "cable octopus" is a likely solution here.

Oh I gotcha.