TN displays are easier and more stable to overclock than ips. So would it be possible to overclock the display to 70/81 hz? It would be a lot better to take advantage of the n3ds's better hardware to make games run at 70 hz at least. It would obviously consume more battery, and might not work as well on ips screens, but it would be really cool to have a 70/81 hz nintendo handheld in my pocket. It would need to be adaptive to make sure games that only run at 60 fps run well, like nes or gba games, though.
I don't expect a display overclock homebrew to come out for a while, but it would be awesome.
TN displays are easier and more stable to overclock than ips. So would it be possible to overclock the display to 70/81 hz? It would be a lot better to take advantage of the n3ds's better hardware to make games run at 70 hz at least. It would obviously consume more battery, and might not work as well on ips screens, but it would be really cool to have a 70/81 hz nintendo handheld in my pocket. It would need to be adaptive to make sure games that only run at 60 fps run well, like nes or gba games, though.
I don't expect a display overclock homebrew to come out for a while, but it would be awesome.
No, you have to have a 70hz display to see 70hz. You still need to verify game compatibility, but if the games are running at 70 frames a second you can't see that 70 frames on a 60 hz display.
No, you have to have a 70hz display to see 70hz. You still need to verify game compatibility, but if the games are running at 70 frames a second you can't see that 70 frames on a 60 hz display.
I am doubting that you're an expert on anything related to technology, no offense. A lot of 3ds games already do run at 60 fps, such as a link between worlds and super smash bros 4. So you can overclock the n3ds or use it's already upgraded hardware to get them to run at 70 fps, then overclock the display. It may take a lot of battery/make the 3ds run hot, so it might be easier to start with the less intensive titles such as NSMB2 and a link between worlds, then go on to the tougher titles. I'm talking about running games at 70 fps with a display of 70 hz. I'm not talking about making games that can't run at 60 run at 70 fps.
I am doubting that you're an expert on anything related to technology, no offense. A lot of 3ds games already do run at 60 fps, such as a link between worlds and super smash bros 4. So you can overclock the n3ds or use it's already upgraded hardware to get them to run at 70 fps, then overclock the display. It may take a lot of battery/make the 3ds run hot, so it might be easier to start with the less intensive titles such as NSMB2 and a link between worlds, then go on to the tougher titles.
Ah yes, because a large display is not the same as a small display. A small apple is not even classified as a large apple.
I'm talking about overclocking the n3ds to run games at 70 fps, cap the framerates at 70 fps, then overclocking the display to run at 70 hz. It's very easy to do it on pc monitors
You are going to want to go study a lot more into the entire 3ds architecture before spitting out random thoughts. Most of what you are thinking of probably wont happen. Seeing as the device itself isnt able to output what you want. Nintendo aint going to be putting 100s of dollars into advanced screens. Aswell as what most ive seen of your topics. likely should end up in the 3ds noob paradise questions list.
Actually, no. @Shadow#1 and @ital, monitor overclocking is a thing. Making a 60 Hz display run at 75 Hz, for example, is commonly doable. And, as @XRTerra says, 3DS consoles with a TN display would probably have an easier time handling that than those with an IPS display. And overclocking the CPU/GPU to run games at higher framerates could also technically be done. However, as far as I know, nothing even remotely similar has been tested, and it would probably be pointless to do so, as you'd need the following to take advantage of it in any particular game:
Said game cannot have its speed be framerate-locked. That is, the in-game action cannot be faster at 75 FPS than at 60 FPS;
Said game cannot currently be pushing the 3DS to its limits already
Said game cannot have a software cap on FPS
Said game cannot employ weird framerate tricks like SSB4 does (backgrounds and stages rendered at 30 FPS while characters move at 60 FPS)
And that's before even considering battery and overheating issues. While this is an interesting thought exercise, I'd honestly drop this idea before I burned a 3DS...
as shady pointed out, display overclocking is a fairly common practice. although I've never heard of it being done on any console
I don't believe we have any control over the gpu driver to be able to do any of that but I might be wrong. if anyone, @Sono might be the one person with more knowledge about the 3ds display capabilities so they might be able to answer if this is even possible. although even if it was I wouldn't expect them to be able to work on it considering they already have a lot on their plate
on a side note, for a hacking forum I'm surprised with how close minded people can be. terra here came up with an actual interesting new question regarding 3ds modding and all that they got was mocking and instant 'no's before even considering what they were suggesting.
Actually, no. @Shadow#1 and @ital, monitor overclocking is a thing. Making a 60 Hz display run at 75 Hz, for example, is commonly doable. And, as @XRTerra says, 3DS consoles with a TN display would probably have an easier time handling that than those with an IPS display. And overclocking the CPU/GPU to run games at higher framerates could also technically be done. However, as far as I know, nothing even remotely similar has been tested, and it would probably be pointless to do so, as you'd need the following to take advantage of it in any particular game:
Said game cannot have its speed be framerate-locked. That is, the in-game action cannot be faster at 75 FPS than at 60 FPS;
Said game cannot currently be pushing the 3DS to its limits already
Said game cannot have a software cap on FPS
Said game cannot employ weird framerate tricks like SSB4 does (backgrounds and stages rendered at 30 FPS while characters move at 60 FPS)
And that's before even considering battery and overheating issues. While this is an interesting thought exercise, I'd honestly drop this idea before I burned a 3DS...
Perhaps we could try getting ds games to take advantage of 3ds hardware first, then overclock the display. maybe a cap of 75 hz to start, but first we need ds games to run in 3ds mode. Maybe emulate popular ds games at 70-80 hz first to figure out compatibility. I have some ds roms I could try, specifically nsmb, sm64 ds, pokemon diamond, and Castlevania dawn of sorrow. Kingdom hearts would be a nice test. I'm thinking early 3ds games would be a good middle ground, then try Majora's mask and a link between worlds. Tri force heroes loads less areas at once, so maybe that could be the first 3ds test?
Plus, this could open the door to higher res ds games. Maybe even a very primitive amd fsr where it runs the game at 144p then upscales to 240p. Mgs3 could make use of that, unless it already runs at 144p. I'll admit I've only seen YouTube videos of it. I have played Dk country returns 3d, and it could use some super resolution. There are a few games now that I think about it could use super resolution, like pokemon games in double/triple battles.
Perhaps we could try getting ds games to take advantage of 3ds hardware first, then overclock the display. maybe a cap of 75 hz to start, but first we need ds games to run in 3ds mode. Maybe emulate popular ds games at 70-80 hz first to figure out compatibility. I have some ds roms I could try, specifically nsmb, sm64 ds, pokemon diamond, and Castlevania dawn of sorrow. Kingdom hearts would be a nice test. I'm thinking early 3ds games would be a good middle ground, then try Majora's mask and a link between worlds. Tri force heroes loads less areas at once, so maybe that could be the first 3ds test?
Plus, this could open the door to higher res ds games. Maybe even a very primitive amd fsr where it runs the game at 144p then upscales to 240p. Mgs3 could make use of that, unless it already runs at 144p. I'll admit I've only seen YouTube videos of it. I have played Dk country returns 3d, and it could use some super resolution. There are a few games now that I think about it could use super resolution, like pokemon games in double/triple battles.
everything else you mentiont is just a pipedream even nintendo would have a pretty hard time to realize any of the things you mention fsr...supersampling ...c´mon dude why not try to build in raytracing
stop your dreaming an be realistic 3ds or even n3ds just doesnt have the power ....end of discussion
Perhaps we could try getting ds games to take advantage of 3ds hardware first, then overclock the display. maybe a cap of 75 hz to start, but first we need ds games to run in 3ds mode. Maybe emulate popular ds games at 70-80 hz first to figure out compatibility. I have some ds roms I could try, specifically nsmb, sm64 ds, pokemon diamond, and Castlevania dawn of sorrow. Kingdom hearts would be a nice test. I'm thinking early 3ds games would be a good middle ground, then try Majora's mask and a link between worlds. Tri force heroes loads less areas at once, so maybe that could be the first 3ds test?
Plus, this could open the door to higher res ds games. Maybe even a very primitive amd fsr where it runs the game at 144p then upscales to 240p. Mgs3 could make use of that, unless it already runs at 144p. I'll admit I've only seen YouTube videos of it. I have played Dk country returns 3d, and it could use some super resolution. There are a few games now that I think about it could use super resolution, like pokemon games in double/triple battles.
This would likely be a set back as the twl nand isnt as known as the 3ds nati e firm. it would require quite a extensive reverse engineering knowledge and there may not even be enough space to add such changes to it.
This would likely be a set back as the twl nand isnt as known as the 3ds nati e firm. it would require quite a extensive reverse engineering knowledge and there may not even be enough space to add such changes to it.
Then could there be an external software that can apply those changes without adding permanent files? CTGP-7 already does this by modifying the files of base Mario kart 7 while playing it without adding any space to Mario kart 7 or replacing any files, but that's software changing software, not software changing hardware. It just takes up space on your sd card.
Edit: removed mean things and swearing, corrected some grammar mistakes, and added technical info
Note: any mentions I make to the display assumes that you're holding the display in its physical orientation, that is the top screen is in your right hand, and the bottom screen is in your left hand, meaning that the 3DS is rotated to the right.
I like (okay, actually not, because it's rude) how all of you keep joking on people who are defending the ability of display overclocking just because it sounds stupid.
I actually did a stable overclock of the LCDs up to ~81FPS on an old3DS, new3DSXL, and a 2DS, and all of them work just fine.
It is possible to overclock up to ~103FPS on my new3DSXL with minor glitches appearing at the top of the screen.
If you don't mind severe display glitches, then you can overclock to some ridiculous levels, but at that point you're really starting to trade image quality/stability for extra frame per second.
Oh, and the best part is... you don't trust me? Well, jokes on you, because I have attached an actual functional techdemo to the bottom of this post you can try out yourself
(Warning: hold down the power button to shut down the 3DS if you want to exit. If your display dims on old3DS then immediately turn off your 3DS!)
Technically you could do "supersampling" with a gsp patch, but only for a very little benefit, as the GPU does not actually support anything like that. The PDC supports interlacing, and you could halve the render resolution, and just swap the interlacing each frame, which would create an "old TV effect" where lines appear if the content contains a lot of motion.
As for more interesting things you can do with display overclocking: technically you could do "GSync/FreeSync" on 3DS, but with some limitations.
On new3DSXL you could just poke the PDC in such a way so that you could make it start a new display frame on command.
On old3DS and 2DS however you sadly need to spin the CPU until it's safe to poke the PDC, otherwise the display will glitch out heavily on 2DS, or it can cause the old3DS screen to enter into a bugged "dim" mode where severe display burn-in can occur if you don't turn off your 3DS immediately.
(Note: it is safe to try the techdemo I have uploaded, and it should not trigger the dim mode on old3DS, but be aware just in case)
As for DS/GBA upscaling, or any modification, it's simply not possible. They use fixed-function hardware, which is incapable of having its display timing (and thus size) parameters changed.
On the DS you can do variable framerate adjustment by writing to the VCount register, but that's all you can get.
The pixel clock runs at ~11.17132733333[...]MHz (ARM11 minimum speed / 24 == 268111856 / 24), and you simply can't change that. There is a weird "clock double" bit I can't really figure out how it works, but when enabled, the top screen writes two pixels at once in column mode (weird line doubling), or it writes two pixels at once on the bottom screen (literally pixel doubling, so the image is stretched out horizontally).
While the displays have some processing in them (especially the original old3DS displays, which have a lot!), they are actually quite dumb otherwise, which means that overclocking them is as easy as just modifying the display timing parameters (things like front/back porch, blanking, display area, and total timing).
You can change just the vertical timings alone, and that can slightly overclock the display. Sadly the default is 413 lines, so you can barely get a few extra frames per second if you set it to 402 lines (the minimum functional value).
You can actually have a surprisingly high amount of overclocking by changing the horizintal timings, but even just a small change will start to glitch out the old3DS timings, and it makes sense why they have changed it to so high, as the old3DS display controller actually supports a ton of image processing built-in, which need a lot of time to get processed.
This is actually the reason why the new3DSXL screens are so overclockable, as the new3DSXL actually features a bugged PDC and an oversimplified display controller, which means that you can modify it to your liking as much as possible. Basically as long as the hardware can keep up with the signal speed, it'll try its best to actually work, and this is what actually happens in reality.
Out of all the 3DSes I have, I found that the new3DSXL's display is the most overclockable, able to be overclocked so high that it actually freezes the 3DS kernel! I remember reaching around 2.9kFPS-3.1kFPS before the 3DS froze, although at that point the image displayed on the display was absolutely destroyed, as it was glitching, only displaying blue colors out of whatever color channel happened to be clocked at the time; it was a mess.
Edit: removed mean things and swearing, corrected some grammar mistakes, and added technical info
Note: any mentions I make to the display assumes that you're holding the display in its physical orientation, that is the top screen is in your right hand, and the bottom screen is in your left hand, meaning that the 3DS is rotated to the right.
I like (okay, actually not, because it's rude) how all of you keep joking on people who are defending the ability of display overclocking just because it sounds stupid.
I actually did a stable overclock of the LCDs up to ~81FPS on an old3DS, new3DSXL, and a 2DS, and all of them work just fine.
It is possible to overclock up to ~103FPS on my new3DSXL with minor glitches appearing at the top of the screen.
If you don't mind severe display glitches, then you can overclock to some ridiculous levels, but at that point you're really starting to trade image quality/stability for extra frame per second.
Oh, and the best part is... you don't trust me? Well, jokes on you, because I have attached an actual functional techdemo to the bottom of this post you can try out yourself
(Warning: hold down the power button to shut down the 3DS if you want to exit. If your display dims on old3DS then immediately turn off your 3DS!)
Technically you could do "supersampling" with a gsp patch, but only for a very little benefit, as the GPU does not actually support anything like that. The PDC supports interlacing, and you could halve the render resolution, and just swap the interlacing each frame, which would create an "old TV effect" where lines appear if the content contains a lot of motion.
As for more interesting things you can do with display overclocking: technically you could do "GSync/FreeSync" on 3DS, but with some limitations.
On new3DSXL you could just poke the PDC in such a way so that you could make it start a new display frame on command.
On old3DS and 2DS however you sadly need to spin the CPU until it's safe to poke the PDC, otherwise the display will glitch out heavily on 2DS, or it can cause the old3DS screen to enter into a bugged "dim" mode where severe display burn-in can occur if you don't turn off your 3DS immediately.
(Note: it is safe to try the techdemo I have uploaded, and it should not trigger the dim mode on old3DS, but be aware just in case)
As for DS/GBA upscaling, or any modification, it's simply not possible. They use fixed-function hardware, which is incapable of having its display timing (and thus size) parameters changed.
On the DS you can do variable framerate adjustment by writing to the VCount register, but that's all you can get.
The pixel clock runs at ~11.17132733333[...]MHz (ARM11 minimum speed / 24 == 268111856 / 24), and you simply can't change that. There is a weird "clock double" bit I can't really figure out how it works, but when enabled, the top screen writes two pixels at once in column mode (weird line doubling), or it writes two pixels at once on the bottom screen (literally pixel doubling, so the image is stretched out horizontally).
While the displays have some processing in them (especially the original old3DS displays, which have a lot!), they are actually quite dumb otherwise, which means that overclocking them is as easy as just modifying the display timing parameters (things like front/back porch, blanking, display area, and total timing).
You can change just the vertical timings alone, and that can slightly overclock the display. Sadly the default is 413 lines, so you can barely get a few extra frames per second if you set it to 402 lines (the minimum functional value).
You can actually have a surprisingly high amount of overclocking by changing the horizintal timings, but even just a small change will start to glitch out the old3DS timings, and it makes sense why they have changed it to so high, as the old3DS display controller actually supports a ton of image processing built-in, which need a lot of time to get processed.
This is actually the reason why the new3DSXL screens are so overclockable, as the new3DSXL actually features a bugged PDC and an oversimplified display controller, which means that you can modify it to your liking as much as possible. Basically as long as the hardware can keep up with the signal speed, it'll try its best to actually work, and this is what actually happens in reality.
Out of all the 3DSes I have, I found that the new3DSXL's display is the most overclockable, able to be overclocked so high that it actually freezes the 3DS kernel! I remember reaching around 2.9kFPS-3.1kFPS before the 3DS froze, although at that point the image displayed on the display was absolutely destroyed, as it was glitching, only displaying blue colors out of whatever color channel happened to be clocked at the time; it was a mess.
Thank you <3 I'm going to try it out soon. I'm gonna try 70 fps to be safe.
Edit: Can confirm to all the disbelievers that yeah, there are slight visual glitches, but it looks amazing(tested on n3dsxl)! And it even works in 3d! Just download the .3dsx file, put it wherever you put it, and open it with homebrew launcher. I can't wait to see what this opens up in the future. I personally didn't know how to change the fps, but 90 was fine. And there really is a difference.
I knew it was possible! Sure, it's not in a game, but it really isn't an issue because it still proves the point that yeah, you can overclock a 3ds display.
I accidentally pressed start to close it, but its easy to just power it off then power it back on.
on a side note, for a hacking forum I'm surprised with how close minded people can be. terra here came up with an actual interesting new question regarding 3ds modding and all that they got was mocking and instant 'no's before even considering what they were suggesting.
Exactly my thoughts. If questions going beyond mainstream can not be discussed here, it is confession of failure.
Showing smug superiority (and even wrongly perceived superiority): "Hell, no. You must be soooo stupid for even thinking/asking this."
I like (okay, actually not, because it's rude) how all of you keep joking on people who are defending the ability of display overclocking just because it sounds stupid.
I have to say I'm pretty sick of flat answers
"No", "Nope", "Impossible"… as well as: "Use […] instead.", "Why would you want to?", "Limitation of [old device] → Get [new device]"
For giving the final answer "no", there has to be a reason provided along exactly WHY the answer is no, what limitations are in place and why they cannot be overcome. @Sono Thanks for providing this. I remembered it from previous profile messages, but I didn't want to bother you at the moment. Please keep up the good work.
==============
Messing around with older stuff can be a lot of fun. A PC and a bunch of emulators can be used as killer argument against about everything regarding trying to do something on older consoles: "Use PC, End of discussion.", "Ikr, all shit show."
Embarrassing behavior!
Exactly my thoughts. If questions going beyond mainstream can not be discussed here, it is confession of failure.
Showing smug superiority (and even wrongly perceived superiority): "Hell, no. You must be soooo stupid for even thinking/asking this."
I have to say I'm pretty sick of flat answers
"No", "Nope", "Impossible"… as well as: "Use […] instead.", "Why would you want to?", "Limitation of [old device] → Get [new device]"
For giving the final answer "no", there has to be a reason provided along exactly WHY the answer is no, what limitations are in place and why they cannot be overcome. @Sono Thanks for providing this. I remembered it from previous profile messages, but I didn't want to bother you at the moment. Please keep up the good work.
==============
Messing around with older stuff can be a lot of fun. A PC and a bunch of emulators can be used as killer argument against about everything regarding trying to do something on older consoles: "Use PC, End of discussion.", "Ikr, all shit show."
Embarrassing behavior!
At that point I don't even want to bring up overclocking ram, which could help with running games at higher frame rates. "No, u can't add more ram" "No, overclocking the ram just makes it faster" "but the n3ds ram is only 256mb, you can't add more ram" ""
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