How do you feel about abortion?

[tunip3]

So we have a dead foetus. Is that something of value that was lost?


How is that a useful response to the quoted part?


Ignoring the perhaps part you think fucking went out of style at one point?

You do know in some countries to this day if have a child out of marriage you can be killed

 

[FAST6191]

You do know in some countries to this day if have a child out of marriage you can be killed

Don't know if I could point to any examples of that but it is not outside my expectations given some of the other laws and things dealing with similar matters I could point at. What does that mean in relation to anything I said there, or to this in general? Or if you prefer so some countries and locales have some horrifically unjust laws or de facto laws, what relevance is that here?

 

[tunip3]

Don't know if I could point to any examples of that but it is not outside my expectations given some of the other laws and things dealing with similar matters I could point at. What does that mean in relation to anything I said there, or to this in general? Or if you prefer so some countries and locales have some horrifically unjust laws or de facto laws, what relevance is that here?

You said has fucking ever gone out of fashion in some countries it's gone out of fashion with the ruling party

 

[FAST6191]

You said has fucking ever gone out of fashion in some countries it's gone out of fashion with the ruling party

I would argue precisely the opposite. If killing is a "punishment" and it still happens anyway then clearly not.

 

[tunip3]

I would argue precisely the opposite. If killing is a "punishment" and it still happens anyway then clearly not.

No but I said it had gone out of fashion with the ruling party not the general public

 

[FAST6191]

I am at a loss as to where you are going with this, and either way I don't think we are likely to hold up such places and times as examples of enlightened thinking, rather actually incredibly barbarous and backwards.

 

[tunip3]

I am at a loss as to where you are going with this, and either way I don't think we are likely to hold up such places and times as examples of enlightened thinking, rather actually incredibly barbarous and backwards.

You said has fucking ever gone out of fashion the awnser is yes with those rulers that is the awnser to your question

 

[FAST6191]

I did, and I am prepared to reiterate it and find no counter examples presently or in history.
Going further your example, even if I take it at face value, still does nothing for most of the same, almost invariably people doing a horrible take on a given religion, are very concerned with the amount and efficacy of the fucking their followers are doing -- after all most of the time the only way you get new followers is to breed them. Just in this case they would rather the people doing it are married and don't share the same type of genitals.

 

[Deleted User]

Menstruation is murder.
Women who waste precious eggs should all go to jail.

 

[tunip3]

Menstruation is murder.
Women who waste precious eggs should all go to jail. /S

Fixed

 

[FAST6191]

Menstruation is murder.
Women who waste precious eggs should all go to jail.

What if your menstruations do not coincide with an ovulation?
Equally how do we define precious eggs?

http://www.ecology.com/birth-death-rates/ reckons 131.4 million births per year, we will half that to get women (even if they are slightly overrepresented). http://www.infertile.com/beating-biological/ reckons "Women are born with approximately two million eggs in their ovaries" so that makes 1.314×10¹⁴ eggs made each year. We get to multiply that by a few if we are considering the world supply.
Equally how valuable are any of those eggs? If nature plays a huge part in things and greatness is then in some way hereditary then bug a small fraction of that. Do we value a potential shiftless layabout? Though actually I consider that the epitome of existence so maybe said egg when combined with an equally worthless sperm (mating being a rather selective ritual) would potentially grow up to be a politician or something.

 

[Deleted User]

Once upon a time a worthless egg and a worthless sperm combined their powers to become a fetus. It wasn't aborted and so Hitler was born.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Once upon a time a worthless egg and a worthless sperm combined their powers to become a fetus. It wasn't aborted and so Hitler was born.

That is a hilariously bad argument and you know it

 

[Deleted User]

That is a hilariously bad argument and you know it

It's only an argument if you don't believe in the holocaust.

 

[MadonnaProject]

An unwanted baby destroys three lives, an abortion saves two.

 

[Lacius]

There is another option, but it would violate the bodily autonomy that you have been preaching.

If it violates bodily autonomy, then it's not a viable option.

1. We also don't make policy based on the unknown either.
2. The same could be said about you, you shouldn't promote, see two can play this game, it goes both ways. Because I doubt you know either.

We know that an embryo/fetus is not a child. If you're going to argue that it is, then you need to demonstrate it, and I've never seen anyone attempt to do so without evoking religion.

Also, again, whether or not something is a child doesn't negate a woman's right to bodily autonomy. See my kidney-donation analogy.

That true, but in this case it doesn't help both parties here, the fetus has to die. In organ donation, the organ(s) are not wasted and put to use, by another person needing the said transplant. But if you put it that way, I guess there isn't much of a difference.

You seem to have misunderstood the hypothetical scenario.

Let's say the federal or state government contacts you by phone and says you are required by law to donate your kidney to a compatible stranger whom you've never met. The stranger will die if you don't do it, and you will be breaking the law if you don't do it. Should the government be allowed to do that, or should you have a choice in the matter?

You're pro abortion, good for you. More power to you I guess.

I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. If I were a woman, I probably wouldn't have an abortion under most circumstances, but I would still want the option.

But yes, perhaps back in ancient times and mostly for religious belief.

While many societies have touted abstinence and condemned promiscuity, abstinence has never actually been widely practiced. A good analogy is an abstinence-only school district. While the school only teaches abstinence and publicly touts abstinence as a core value of the community, it's not widely practiced.

Edit: A person who wants to have sex and has the means to have sex generally has sex, even if he or she is abstinent. While it works for some and it's a perfectly fine choice to make, it's generally an unreliable and ineffective method of birth control.

b-b-b-but lacius-sama does this mean i can legally kill my 4 year old child if i were a mother with a four year old kid?

You seem to have missed the point.

You can't legally murder your four year-old kid, no. The existence of the kid does not violate your right to bodily autonomy. However, you shouldn't be required by the law to donate an organ to the child; that would violate your right to bodily autonomy.

How do you feel about this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/feb/10/medicalscience.research
Tbh honest I think something like this https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw06qMdV_iK79QzIbZ6m3NbB would be ideal as well the father can have a child but the mother doesn't have to go through child birth

A woman's right to bodily autonomy means she would have to consent to the kind of procedure that would allow this to happen. Just because a man ejaculated inside of a woman doesn't mean he gets any legal right over anything about or inside the woman's body.

 

[bitjacker]

I need some help here. Is there any way to post multiple polls? I want a poll of each hot point presented in this debate. I only want raw data, not arguements or rationale.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I need some help here. Is there any way to post multiple polls? I want a poll of each hot point presented in this debate. I only want raw data, not arguements or rationale.

You can post a single-question poll with I think up to 15 potential answers

Plus you have to have editing rights to the OP to post one

 

[bitjacker]

everyone pm me questions they feel are hot points! i think i only want yes/no <thread hijack complete>

 

[Yumi]

I'd like to add my 2 cents on this.

I'm pro-choice. No doubt about that. I like having a choice over whether I keep the baby or not. I know that sounds cold but that's just how I feel. I'm happy that some of people are willing to keep the baby and commit themselves to that for that baby's lifetime until adulthood. Now if I accidentally do get pregnant and know that i wouldn't be ready, and this is after thinking hard about it like seriously looking over any financial or living conditions, then I'd have to abort BUT that is something I wish to not happen ever and I like to think of that as a 5% chance of ever happening. I'd prefer to adopt anyways.

Now there are women who make the right call on aborting the baby because of difficult situations surrounding them. Why put their child through misery living in poor conditions?? I wouldn't. "But there's government aid and everything" sure but not everywhere in the world has that.

A human is responsible to their own body, not someone else. You cannot tell me what I can do or can't do with my body. That is final.

** Also, I would take my partner's view into consideration as well.