Hearings about January 6 capital

[Dakitten]

People of colour in America are constantly bombarded with messaging that the consequences of their actions are not their own - somebody else is always at fault. Somebody else made them flunk school, somebody else made them break the law, somebody else, in purpose, made the bus late and they missed an interview, somebody else made them leave a pregnant significant other, or peddled them drugs. There's a boogieboo in the air that inhibits them, it's not them that need to self-improve and stick to the straight and narrow - it's the road that needs to be torn up. Absolutely not - we are all equal, regardless of skin colour. People of colour are on every level of government and public life - they're lawyers, they're police officers, they're doctors, they're mayors, they're in Congress - a PoC woman can be Vice President, a black man can be President, the most powerful man in the world. If you want to correct the sins of the forefathers, do it from within by being a paragon of society, not by blaming the specter of invisible racism that you cannot quantify. The former is a path to success, the latter a path of self-doubt, lack of accountability and defeat. You are robbing people of agency by removing personal responsibility from the equation. You are telling them, repeatedly, that no matter how hard they try, they will never perform as well as their white peers because they're brown. That's patently false.

Ah, how comforting and convenient. Poor minorities just need to take credit for their history of being enslaved, robbed, murdered, and learn to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, just like the... not people in power. I'm sorry, but you're living in an absolute fantasy if you believe in half of what you say here, considering how many lazy wealth inheritors exist today, and how many folk work multiple jobs only to remain in poverty and debt 'til their dying breath. The math isn't as simple as "Oh, stop buying crack and it'll all be swell!" considering murders and maiming by law enforcement can happen even to the innocent and hard working. The law might not outright call out racist names and call for the burning of crosses in yards, things evolve and change over time, but considering that the majority of the people can routinely vote for a president and still lose, there are rules in place that disadvantage them.

Considering that you can have someone do great in school, never choose violence or drugs, stay on the straight and narrow, but because they were born poor they have to work and forgo college, they may likely never make their way out of lower class. Completing high school does not guarantee success and a path to a better tomorrow. Excelling in college does not guarantee success. Having the ability to eat three meals a day and have a roof over your head is not a guarantee for those who want to try for more. Having the resources to get to school every day is not a guarantee. Having a family is not a guarantee of support if they're still dealing with the repercussions of intense persecution in their time, and until you've lived a day in the shoes of the desperate, you're hardly in a position to judge. You can prop up Obama and Kamila and say "See? Racism over!" But they're hardly examples of rising from the ashes.

I take back my earlier judgment. You actually are a monster, comrade, your playing a game or not doesn't even matter at this point.

It's one or the other - either it exists in the present and you can point out precise laws that discriminate based on race *or* it has existed in the past and the consequences are felt today, causing some to be in the position of playing catch-up. Decide which point you're arguing, because so far your response is a strawman. Nobody has ever said that no discrimination against black people has taken place over the centuries - the whole conversation is about common law at present. You pointing out past injustices is not a "W", it's changing the subject.

And the goalpost shifts. Disgusting.

 

[Foxi4]

You actually are a monster.

Thank you, this means a lot to me.

comrade...

I asked you nicely not to call me that. Where I come from this could potentially be construed as an insult, for reasons that should be abundantly obvious, but ones that I am happy to explain, should the need arise. It doesn't really bring up any feelings of hurt - I'm above such trifles. It's simply mildly irritating, and you do it specifically to irritate - you're not that subtle, it's very obvious. Of course you are free to call me however you like, just be aware that I know what you're doing and you'll need a bigger boat.

And the goalpost shifts. Disgusting.

The goal post hasn't shifted once this entire time - it's you guys who are refusing to answer the question.

 

[Xzi]

Ah, I see. So still no, then. I'll take that and agree to disagree, considering this has gone long enough and has nothing to do with the thread. Diversions are nice every now and then, but this one is getting circular.

Well I guess providing no reasoning whatsoever is at least better than using the disingenuous argument that "only 92% of people in neighborhood X are minorities, so that can't possibly be discriminatory."

With all the data gathering that goes on today, you know as well as I that it's possible to micro-target even down to the individual level. Obviously this same technology can be used for malicious and/or discriminatory purposes. It's easy enough to follow the letter of the law while still violating the spirit and intention said law was written with.

 

[Dakitten]

Thank you, this means a lot to me.
The goal post hasn't shifted once this entire time - it's you guys who are refusing to answer the question.

Your question is garbage because you can't accept the very reality the world operates in. Your myopic world view is already focused only on what you want to see, and your trolling persona keeps you from having to owe up to any of your points of view that might possibly fall out of favor. Still, like I've said elsewhere, I'll be content just thrashing your nonsense and pointing out your abhorrent rhetoric for anyone else who happens to browse this place. I don't believe anyone is beyond help, but you're well beyond reasoning with here.

 

[Foxi4]

Your question is garbage because you can't accept the very reality the world operates in. Your myopic world view is already focused only on what you want to see, and your trolling persona keeps you from having to owe up to any of your points of view that might possibly fall out of favor. Still, like I've said elsewhere, I'll be content just thrashing your nonsense and pointing out your abhorrent rhetoric for anyone else who happens to browse this place. I don't believe anyone is beyond help, but you're well beyond reasoning with here.

I don't know how to respond to that. You're welcome to post whatever you please, everybody is welcome in the open marketplace of ideas, even "comrades".

 

[jimbo13]

Ah, how comforting and convenient. Poor minorities just need to take credit for their history of being enslaved, robbed, murdered, and learn to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, just like the... not people in power.

Every group, race, ethnicity, religion & sect in the history of humanity has been slaves and enslaved. No one's innocent, get the fuck over it.

I'm sorry, but you're living in an absolute fantasy if you believe in half of what you say here, considering how many lazy wealth inheritors exist today, and how many folk work multiple jobs only to remain in poverty and debt 'til their dying breath. The math isn't as simple as "Oh, stop buying crack and it'll all be swell!".

Yeah it is, number one way people end up/get out of poverty is a marriage and not getting divorced or separated. That is a statistical fact. It's a two income society, your not competing on one income with single parent homes, stop being dead beats.

You want to have kids out of wedlock and promote single parent homes, enjoy being broke.

Considering that you can have someone do great in school, never choose violence or drugs, stay on the straight and narrow, but because they were born poor they have to work and forgo college, they may likely never make their way out of lower class.

Bullshit, they give out student loans like food stamps which you also get while your milking loans, I lived off them for a decade comfortably while I got my degree. It was four grand or so every month and a half back in the 00's. It's simple, they pay people to fill the forms out for you. No high school diploma? No problem there going to give you loans while you get your GED.

Completing high school does not guarantee success and a path to a better tomorrow. Excelling in college does not guarantee success. .

Yeah, and a big cause of that is the Liberalism plague in public education, most people get a garbage "______ studies" degree 60K in debt and not a trade in the world that gives a damn that a glorified welfare recipient "teacher" milked them because their degree was as useless as the shit they taught.

It's called STEM, no one gives a damn about your ethnic history major with a minor in feminist angst dance.

I realize your not smart enough to understand this but if I am not mistaken Fox is of polish descent, calling an European who probably dealt with or had family that dealt with the soviet atrocities is on par with calling a black person the N word, stop it.

 

[Foxi4]

I realize your not smart enough to understand this but if I am not mistaken Fox is of polish descent, calling an European who probably dealt with or had family that dealt with the soviet atrocities is on par with calling a black person the N word, stop it.

So many stories left untold, you would not believe. It's not a big deal though - I've indicated my dislike of the term, what my interlocutors choose to do about it is up to them. It doesn't hurt me, it merely makes me think less of them, which is fine.

 

[jimbo13]

So many stories left untold, you would not believe. It's not a big deal though - I've indicated my dislike of the term, what my interlocutors choose to do about it is up to them. It doesn't hurt me, it merely makes me think less of them, which is fine.

I'd believe it, I know a lot of people from old bloc countries either directly or their parents. In-laws and grew up next door to refugee community from back in the 80s. I've told Reul more than once I wish he should go try out his dogma around Cubans or any of the people I know that lived under his nonsense. The only reason he walk away is they assume he had mental issues.

 

[SyphenFreht]

I realize your not smart enough to understand this but if I am not mistaken Fox is of polish descent, calling an European who probably dealt with or had family that dealt with the soviet atrocities is on par with calling a black person the N word, stop it.

Weren't you just in the transgender post going on about how people shouldn't be forced to refer to others by their preferred pronoun, but now you're here telling people to stop calling each other comrade? You'd be more fun to interact with if you didn't constantly back pedal and wrap your arguments in hypocrisy and inconsistencies.

 

[Dakitten]

Every group, race, ethnicity, religion & sect in the history of humanity has been slaves and enslaved. No one's innocent, get the fuck over it.



Yeah it is, number one way people end up/get out of poverty is a marriage and not getting divorced or separated. That is a statistical fact. It's a two income society, your not competing on one income with single parent homes, stop being dead beats.

You want to have kids out of wedlock and promote single parent homes, enjoy being broke.



Bullshit, they give out student loans like food stamps which you also get while your milking loans, I lived off them for a decade comfortably while I got my degree. It was four grand or so every month and a half back in the 00's. It's simple, they pay people to fill the forms out for you. No high school diploma? No problem there going to give you loans while you get your GED.




Yeah, and a big cause of that is the Liberalism plague in public education, most people get a garbage "______ studies" degree 60K in debt and not a trade in the world that gives a damn that a glorified welfare recipient "teacher" milked them because their degree was as useless as the shit they taught.

It's called STEM, no one gives a damn about your ethnic history major with a minor in feminist angst dance.

I realize your not smart enough to understand this but if I am not mistaken Fox is of polish descent, calling an European who probably dealt with or had family that dealt with the soviet atrocities is on par with calling a black person the N word, stop it.

Wee, assumptions galore! This is why you are legend, Jimbo.

1) In the modern age, not everyone has been a slave. If you want to get into antiquity, that might be something, but then most of the governments that utilized it crumbled into dust (wiggle room for what I'm sure are a handful of exceptions that also have something to answer for). The United States only has one claim to fame on that topic, and it is still a quite recent and fresh wound that the still existing government has to come to terms with.

2) Ooh, something we sadly agree on. The quickest way out of poverty is sadly marriage, but not likely in the way you presume. That sort of marriage creates an absolutely terrible imbalance of power, and surprise surprise, a white supremacist man is trying to espouse a dynamic that thinks nothing of the women who're still dealing with a financially uneven playing field. Nobody even was making a case of kids out of wedlock or what-have-you, but thanks for presuming some madness. Even without kids, many couples remain well below the poverty line. Guess freedom only matters if you have the money to afford it, and you only start with money if you're lucky enough to be born into wealth.

3) Four grand, coupled with the cost of rent and humble living expenses, would require an income of well over 40/hr to overcome. Presuming you went into computers and got a good google job right out of the gate, and you commute from somewhere that doesn't cost near said loan payment, you'd still be drowning right from minute one. This doesn't even get into repayment rates between races, how poor people don't qualify for many of these loans based purely on their economic starting point, and how not everyone can live with their parents while attending school... and this doesn't even get into what schools you even can get into and how expensive it might be to travel to one!

4) I realize you don't value anything that doesn't have immediate gratification for you, but you're talking about taking away choice from those who aren't born into wealth, which actually is already a problem. This perpetuates the idea of tiered living, and that sort of thing never bodes well for a society...

5) I don't honestly recall Fox requesting to not be called comrade in the past, but I don't actually have an objection to not calling him comrade. I know I've explained my reasoning to someone, Bit perhaps, but I won't apologize for my stance on how society should progress.

 

[Foxi4]

I don't honestly recall Fox requesting to not be called comrade in the past, but I don't actually have an objection to not calling him comrade. I know I've explained my reasoning to someone, Bit perhaps, but I won't apologize for my stance on how society should progress.

If you haven't noticed then that's fine. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me that - we're not "comrades" in any sense of the word. As I said earlier, I'm not offended. You two don't need to fight over my feelings either - you're making me feel like a damsel in distress over here and you haven't even brought wine yet.

 

[Dakitten]

If you haven't noticed then that's fine. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me that - we're not "comrades" in any sense of the word. As I said earlier, I'm not offended. You two don't need to fight over my feelings either - you're making me feel like a damsel in distress over here and you haven't even brought wine yet.

As I've stated in the past, I call folks comrade in the hopes that everyone will eventually decide to become a comrade. Comradre is a beautiful thing, but I also respect simple requests of preference. And don't you worry, I wouldn't dream of stepping in the way of your union, I just always tear up at gallantry~

 

[Foxi4]

As I've stated in the past, I call folks comrade in the hopes that everyone will eventually decide to become a comrade. Comradre is a beautiful thing, but I also respect simple requests of preference. And don't you worry, I wouldn't dream of stepping in the way of your union, I just always tear up at gallantry~

It's not a "preference", it wasn't a very beautiful thing from my perspective, and with some luck my people will never have to deal with "comrades" ever again. If you're interested in my reasoning as to why I oppose the term, you'll have to reach out privately - it goes beyond the scope of the thread.

As a side note, I thought comrades don't believe in private ownership? Sharing is caring, I have lots of love to give, as long as the missus doesn't object to a smooch between friends.

 

[SyphenFreht]

Wee, assumptions galore! This is why you are legend, Jimbo.

1) In the modern age, not everyone has been a slave. If you want to get into antiquity, that might be something, but then most of the governments that utilized it crumbled into dust (wiggle room for what I'm sure are a handful of exceptions that also have something to answer for). The United States only has one claim to fame on that topic, and it is still a quite recent and fresh wound that the still existing government has to come to terms with.

To add to that, while many other countries also participated in slavery for many, many years, the U.S. is notable for utilizing slavery during its infancy, on which it almost solely relied upon to become the world's superpower it is today. For any U.S. historians out there, you should vaguely remember how during its infant years America became a strong contender with its export of various resources, like tobacco, cotton, sugar, lumber, and so on. With very little money being used for import, many of America's founders grew rich from exploiting slave labor and exporting the natural resources to other countries, mainly Britain and the surrounding European countries. From there industry grew, America remained isolationist for almost 200 years (Pearl Harbor resulted from U.S. politics regarding international trade), and the founding fathers (and now their generational brethren) got to reap what were almost 100% profits from slave trade and the labor produced from it.

Why is it still a big deal? Because all those racist ideals trickled down to modern day life, where people look down on minorities because grandpa's grandpa said so and it's always been like that for these families. Yes, many different cultures and races have been enslaved or took part in slaving. America is one of the few countries that probably wouldn't have existed, at least in it's current state, if it wasn't built by slaves, and I'm sure it's awful being someone who comes to the realization that the same country that was built on the backs of your ancestors, thinks less of you.

 

[seany1990]

Benghazi: 4 American deaths
Number of hearings republicans supported for Benghazi: 5
Capital Insurrection: 6 American deaths
Number of hearings republicans supported for the Insurrection: 0

 

[Foxi4]

Benghazi: 4 American deaths
Number of hearings republicans supported for Benghazi: 5
Capital Insurrection: 6 American deaths
Number of hearings republicans supported for the Insurrection: 0

The Capitol riot did not lead to 6 deaths. It led to 1 death, from all available evidence. Benghazi was also a matter of an embassy being attacked by a known terrorist group - the Capitol was vandalised by angry citizens.

 

[Dakitten]

The Capitol riot did not lead to 6 deaths. It led to 1 death, from all available evidence. Benghazi was also a matter of an embassy being attacked by a known terrorist group - the Capitol was vandalised by angry citizens.

And this is why I called you a monster. I know you don't like to think that the suicides should count, but PTSD is real and it isn't really a secret what spurred them on. These would have been just "angry citizens", except their target was extremely political. They were violent terrorists, and they are responsible for deaths and trauma.

 

[KingVamp]

Just want to point out, private and personal ownership isn't the same thing.

 

[Foxi4]

And this is why I called you a monster. I know you don't like to think that the suicides should count, but PTSD is real and it isn't really a secret what spurred them on. These would have been just "angry citizens", except their target was extremely political. They were violent terrorists, and they are responsible for deaths and trauma.

What suicides? The ones that took place months later? Sorry, but five people have died during or immediately after the riot - three of natural causes, one of drug overdose and one who was shot by the security detail. Four additional officers have committed suicide *several* months later. As such, based on all available evidence, the riot directly led to one death - that of Ashli Babbit.

 

[Dakitten]

We've talked this point before, dear. Even if the attack didn't directly cause the fatality, it still ended in his death. And I'm sorry you can't relate to trauma, particularly when folks on the right harass these officers relentlessly for some reason, but those suicides are related. In a sense, it is almost like folk like you and Jimbo might have been involved in said deaths... ¬.¬