Food Shortages, Wendy's takes Burgers off Menu

[SG854]

True, but the flu was never as deadly or infectious as COVID-19 even before we developed shots for it.

1918 Flu, infected 40% of worlds population, killing 50 million.

Covid 19 so far 316k deaths.

 

[Xzi]

1918 Flu, infected 40% of worlds population, killing 50 million.

Covid 19 so far 316k deaths.

I considered mentioning it, but the Spanish flu is quite different from what we refer to as the (common) flu today. It's more closely related to swine flu and bird flu.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

I have no idea what point it is you're trying to make here. Not a single governor declared it illegal to take a walk outside during the stay at home order.

Perhaps not entirely illegal here in the US, but only since the pandemic have brainteasers "journalists" tried to make jogging seem racist.

Like I said, pick your own expert. As long as they have even a rudimentary knowledge of infectious diseases, they'll tell you the same damn thing. Dr. Fauci has been a part of the CDC since the early 80s IIRC, he's served under like ten different presidents. Nobody needed to learn his name until now because every president other than Trump simply took his advice.

Cite your sources. Until then, here's something.
https://www.facebook.com/529738257415086/posts/1387362808319289/

So noble of you, shifting more of society's burdens off of the billionaires and corporations at the top, and back down on to small businesses and individuals already struggling to stay afloat. /s

Eradicate taxes and limit regulations. It'll be more than manageable.

True, but the flu was never as deadly or infectious as COVID-19 even before we developed shots for it.

Infectious? True. Deadly? False.

I didn't post any statistics.

I will for you.

Under-reporting is under-reporting, regardless of the exact number.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count

That doesn't make any sense. Issuing the stay at home order later than we should have is exactly what caused so many overwhelmed hospitals. Fewer people going out means fewer people getting infected. I haven't heard of any doctors being laid off, but if that is happening, it's surely the result of pure greed at the executive level.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-victim-americas-largest-health-systems/story?id=70317683

It's both, otherwise only tests for antibodies would be turning up positive at such a high rate.

https://calmatters.org/health/2020/04/nursing-homes-california-covid-19-patients-coronavirus-newsom/

 

[Xzi]

Cite your sources. Until then, here's something.

I gave you multiple options for a source. CDC, WHO, Fauci, or just your local doctor. I even lowballed the percentage of testing needed to safely re-open. Not sure how much more I can do to prove my point.

Eradicate taxes and limit regulations. It'll be more than manageable.

Sure, if you want this country to become a completely unrecognizable oligarchy more akin to China. Corporations would be more than happy to become our new government and bring back child labor.

Infectious? True. Deadly? False.

We're over 90,000 deaths in the US rofl. Even one death makes it deadly. The flu has a mortality rate of right around 0.1%, while COVID-19 is at 6% currently, at least among confirmed cases.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count

One state over-reporting does not mean other states aren't under-reporting. In fact, the whole country will continue to under-report until we drastically ramp up our testing capacity.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-victim-americas-largest-health-systems/story?id=70317683

Like I said, greed and short-sightedness. The same reasons we won't be any more prepared for the next pandemic.

https://calmatters.org/health/2020/04/nursing-homes-california-covid-19-patients-coronavirus-newsom/

I'm not sure what this article has to do with new infections. I believe only about two states had infection rates that were actually declining before opening back up.

 

[SG854]

U.S. has one of the lows rates of death per capita compared to other European counties, so it has a smaller % of deaths relative to population size. But has the highest infection rates & deaths if you count pure numbers without including per capita, which make sense since the U.S. is a much bigger country with a higher population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52415579

The above link came out last month and Belgium is at the top of the worst country.

And it looks like it stayed the same because as of 4 days ago Belgium is still the worst following other European countries.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...se-on-covid-19-deaths-per-million?context=amp

U.S. gets alot of flak for being crazy where not many is following stay at home orders because of Trump followers. But I look around me and hardly anyone is going out. People are following stay at home orders. And statistics show it also. But then again every country collects statistics in different ways. So apples and apples comparison is not possible.

 

[Xzi]

U.S. gets alot of flak for being crazy where not many is following stay at home orders because of Trump followers. But I look around me and hardly anyone is going out.

It depends on which state you live in. Texas and Florida essentially never really enforced stay at home to begin with, and their infection rates are skyrocketing. Won't surprise me if they stop reporting deaths as COVID-related altogether soon.

 

[SG854]

It depends on which state you live in. Texas and Florida essentially never really enforced stay at home to begin with, and their infection rates are skyrocketing. Won't surprise me if they stop reporting deaths as COVID-related altogether soon.

I think one U.S. state is comparable to one European Country. People don't realize how big U.S. is. They think you can easily drive from Texas to California within a few hours like you can between European countries. But that's not the case.

Comparing Texas with Belgium would probably be a more fair case. But then again not all U.S. is the same following the same rules. So generalizations is bad.

 

[Xzi]

But then again not all U.S. is the same following the same rules.

Precisely. The US is much closer to a worst-case scenario than other countries because we had no coordinated federal response. Just a free-for-all of individual states setting their own individual policies amidst all the chaos and confusion. And now that we're opening back up across the board, people are going to travel from the most infected states to the least infected and cause a whole new round of infections.

 

[SG854]

Precisely. The US is much closer to a worst-case scenario than other countries because we had no coordinated federal response. Just a free-for-all of individual states setting their own individual policies amidst all the chaos and confusion. And now that we're opening back up across the board, people are going to travel from the most infected states to the least infected and cause a whole new round of infections.

Closer to a Best case and Worst case examples since even with the worst states not following stay at home we still manage a per capita lower then those European countries I listed. Which means the best case examples must be doing extremely well, so well the the worst states aren't able to increase our per capita death rates higher then those European countries.

 

[Xzi]

Closer to a Best case and Worst case examples since even with the worst states not following stay at home we still manage a per capita lower then those European countries I listed. Which means the best case examples must be doing extremely well, so well the the worst states aren't able to increase our per capita death rates higher then those European countries.

While that is true, the US has a lot more rural areas than most European countries, so measuring per capita is ultimately just a way to make us feel better about our failures. The goalposts keep getting moved. First we were told with all confidence that total deaths would be under 50k. Then it was 100k. Now since we're fast approaching that, it'll be 150k tomorrow. And 200k a week from then.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

I gave you multiple options for a source. CDC, WHO, Fauci, or just your local doctor. I even lowballed the percentage of testing needed to safely re-open. Not sure how much more I can do to prove my point.

What you need to do is provide links. This is an online debate, not a book report. Naming names is not citing sources.

Sure, if you want this country to become a completely unrecognizable oligarchy more akin to China. Corporations would be more than happy to become our new government and bring back child labor.

I said limit regulations, not remove them.

We're over 90,000 deaths in the US rofl. Even one death makes it deadly. The flu has a mortality rate of right around 0.1%, while COVID-19 is at 6% currently, at least among confirmed cases.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html


One state over-reporting does not mean other states aren't under-reporting. In fact, the whole country will continue to under-report until we drastically ramp up our testing capacity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html

New York City [...] said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it.

Like I said, greed and short-sightedness. The same reasons we won't be any more prepared for the next pandemic.

It's basic economics. If nobody's coming, you're not making as much money. If you're not making enough money, it's time to lay off employees.

I'm not sure what this article has to do with new infections.

It's why there are so many deaths. Old folks with Flu Bear are forcibly being put in densely-packed nursing homes by the California government, causing it to spread to people who can't survive it. Keep in mind this is the same state that extended the house arrest orders by three whole months.

 

[DJPlace]

local burger king in my area is like 50% out of food also.. but they still sell burger and chicken nuggets at least.

 

[SG854]

While that is true, the US has a lot more rural areas than most European countries, so measuring per capita is ultimately just a way to make us feel better about our failures. The goalposts keep getting moved. First we were told with all confidence that total deaths would be under 50k. Then it was 100k. Now since we're fast approaching that, it'll be 150k tomorrow. And 200k a week from then.

According to this more U.S. are living in Urban areas then Europe. About 8% more. About 82% of population living urban vs 74%.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/270860/urbanization-by-continent/

EU is more densely populated then the U.S. So more chances for the virus to spread compared to U.S. where more people are spaced out. But wouldn't that mean that we don't have to be as strict with Stay at Home policies? We can be a little more lax since the population is more spread out? Minus the highly populated U.S. cities.

 

[Xzi]

What you need to do is provide links. This is an online debate, not a book report. Naming names is not citing sources.

Just seems extraordinarily lazy on your part, but okay. You went from claiming that my sources were too anecdotal and narrow to claiming they were too generalized.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-testing-states.html

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/reopen-economy-safely-report-offers-guidance/story?id=70636167

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/how-many-covid-19-tests-are-needed-to-reopen/

Wide Range of Estimates
Several groups have attempted to put a figure on how many tests are needed for the U.S. to reopen. On the lower end, researchers at the Harvard Global Health Institute calculated that the U.S. would need to do approximately 500,000 tests per day, as a bare minimum, by May 1 — a figure they have since revised to 900,000 for May 15.

On the other extreme, there’s Nobel laureate and New York University economist Paul Romer’s plan to test the entire U.S. population once every two weeks, or around 25 million tests a day. He has since raised that to 35 million tests per day, or more, to include daily testing of front-line workers.

In between, Harvard University’s Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics suggests 2 million tests per day to start, then ramping up to at least 5 million tests per day by early June to get the full workforce back in action — with that growing to as many as 20 million tests per day.

No state except Rhode Island has met the minimum testing requirements to safely re-open, even when compared to the lowest estimates.

I said limit regulations, not remove them.

We've already got a trickle-up economy. No need to make it even worse for the people at the bottom.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html

Same response as before still applies, except in this case, it's not that New York is over-reporting, just that their hospitals are overwhelmed and they don't have enough tests for everybody who dies while on a ventilator or with a high fever. You'll get a few cases here and there that turn out not to have been Corona in the long run, but it's still better to be safe than sorry. We certainly don't want to be pulling a China.

It's basic economics. If nobody's coming, you're not making as much money. If you're not making enough money, it's time to lay off employees.

No, it's time to divorce our healthcare system from the profit motive. This level of greed is unsustainable at the best of times, let alone during a pandemic.

It's why there are so many deaths. Old folks with Flu Bear are forcibly being put in densely-packed nursing homes by the California government, causing it to spread to people who can't survive it. Keep in mind this is the same state that extended the house arrest orders by three whole months.

Nursing homes are ground zero in every state. They don't have the same rules and regulations as hospitals, so they end up being the perfect petri dish for the virus.

EU is more densely populated then the U.S. So more chances for the virus to spread compared to U.S. where more people are spaced out. But wouldn't that mean that we don't have to be as strict with Stay at Home policies? We can be a little more lax since the population is more spread out? Minus the highly populated U.S. cities.

That's kind of what's happening right now, and so far the results are not good. In some states you've got cities and counties that are still under stay at home orders, while other nearby counties are reopening. What happens then is you get people who are supposed to be in lockdown traveling one county over and mingling with all its residents, effectively spreading the virus.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Just seems extraordinarily lazy on your part, but okay.

That's me for ya.

No state except Rhode Island has met the minimum testing requirements to safely re-open, even when compared to the lowest estimates.

You'll notice that these researchers say that it should be the whole country, not every individual state. Going by HRHI, we're all set, what with us doing 1.5M tests per day and their goal being 900K.

We've already got a trickle-up economy. No need to make it even worse for the people at the bottom.

Didn't I already say abolish taxes?

Same response as before still applies, except in this case, it's not that New York is over-reporting, just that their hospitals are overwhelmed and they don't have enough tests for everybody who dies while on a ventilator or with a high fever. You'll get a few cases here and there that turn out not to have been Corona in the long run, but it's still better to be safe than sorry. We certainly don't want to be pulling a China.

How does expressing our rights as American citizens count as being like China?

No, it's time to divorce our healthcare system from the profit motive. This level of greed is unsustainable at the best of times, let alone during a pandemic.

In a Utopian society, I'd agree.
How many people do you know that would willingly work hard for nothing?

Nursing homes are ground zero in every state. They don't have the same rules and regulations as hospitals, so they end up being the perfect petri dish for the virus.

Are you saying we should shut down retirement homes?
Are you saying we should kick old people out of their homes?
Are you saying old people should be homeless?
Are you saying old people should live outside when you're trying to keep those of us who are asymptomatic inside for their safety?
Are you saying old people should be exposed to Flu Bear?
Do you want people to die?!

The people who are vulnerable are the only ones who should be under the stay-at-home order. These people include the elderly and people with other medical conditions. That's it.

 

[Xzi]

You'll notice that these researchers say that it should be the whole country, not every individual state. Going by HRHI, we're all set, what with us doing 1.5M tests per day and their goal being 900K.

Not sure where you're getting that figure from, we're still under 300k tests a day as of May 1st.

Didn't I already say abolish taxes?

Which would overwhelmingly benefit the rich and corporations. The poor don't pay a whole lot in taxes, but they do rely on taxpayer-funded programs to survive.

How does expressing our rights as American citizens count as being like China?

I think we got our wires crossed somewhere, that a was a reply in response to our discussion on under/over reporting the rate of new infections and deaths from COVID. China has been caught out under-reporting to make their handling of the pandemic look better, just as some states have.

In a Utopian society, I'd agree.
How many people do you know that would willingly work hard for nothing?

Do you really believe doctors and nurses don't get paid in Scandinavian countries? Somehow America is just about the last first-world nation on Earth that hasn't figured out a proper balance in regard to valuing human lives over profits for useless executives.

Are you saying we should shut down retirement homes?
Are you saying we should kick old people out of their homes?
Are you saying old people should be homeless?
Are you saying old people should live outside when you're trying to keep those of us who are asymptomatic inside for their safety?
Are you saying old people should be exposed to Flu Bear?
Do you want people to die?!

I didn't say any of that, I was just stating a fact. We could definitely benefit by requiring higher standards for nursing homes and the people that work in them, though.

The people who are vulnerable are the only ones who should be under the stay-at-home order. These people include the elderly and people with other medical conditions. That's it.

Literally everybody is vulnerable until we have a vaccine. Contracting the virus is a roll of the dice no matter how young you are or what shape you're in. Even children are showing reactions to the virus which can cause heart attacks or other complications weeks after symptoms initially subside.

 

[Viri]

I guess today I'll go to Wendy's and buy a Hamburger today, even though they're always fucking cold when I buy them. The small corner stores down the street from me always had toilet paper and cleaning supplies. I'm surprised my city didn't force them to shut down too. I like to buy cheese steaks from them, because they only charge 3 dollars.

Also, the way my state handled retirement homes is utterly revolting. My state has nearly 4.7k deaths, and 2.5k of them were in retirement homes.

 

[Seliph]

Friendly reminder that despite the fact that the US population is about 14% of the world population (that's 328.2m people), the US accounts for 28% of all coronavirus deaths (318k and rising) and 32% (4.8m and also rising) of all cases.

Now those numbers aren't 100% accurate, but they're based on this.

Just something to think about...

Also Vietnam, a nation with 95.54 million citizens (for comparison, that's about 1/3 of the US population) has had only had 324 cases and 0 deaths. I could list other countries as well, but I think this is a pretty solid comparison.

Burgers suck anyways, Wendy's sucks. The whole fast-food market sucks. All the more reason for people to switch to healthier and more sustainable diets. I hope the whole fast-food industry crashes and burns.

Edit: also look at India. They have a population of 1.353 billion. That's about 3x the population of the US. India has had only 101k cases compared to the US's 4.8m and only 3,163 deaths compared to the US's 318k. Clearly the US is doing something horribly wrong.

 

[SG854]

Friendly reminder that despite the fact that the US population is about 14% of the world population (that's 328.2m people), the US accounts for 28% of all coronavirus deaths (318k and rising) and 32% (4.8m and also rising) of all cases.

Now those numbers aren't 100% accurate, but they're based on this.

Just something to think about...

Also Vietnam, a nation with 95.54 million citizens (for comparison, that's about 1/3 of the US population) has had only had 324 cases and 0 deaths. I could list other countries as well, but I think this is a pretty solid comparison.

Burgers suck anyways, Wendy's sucks. The whole fast-food market sucks. All the more reason for people to switch to healthier and more sustainable diets. I hope the whole fast-food industry crashes and burns.

Edit: also look at India. They have a population of 1.353 billion. That's about 3x the population of the US. India has had only 101k cases compared to the US's 4.8m and only 3,163 deaths compared to the US's 318k. Clearly the US is doing something horribly wrong.

318k is too high. @Xzi posted the correct numbers earlier. Its more around 90k. On your link change the search results to all regions and it'll say 90k.

You can make healthy foods with meat. And burgers don't have to be unhealthy. If we have a meat shortage neither markets or fast food places will serve meat. And fast food isn't so bad if you eat only sometimes, like chocolates and sugar isn't bad if you eat it sometimes. Live a little, enjoy life, have a little chocolate and fast food once in a while. And sometimes you need the convenience of a quick meal when you are in a hurry. They are here to stay.

 

[Seliph]

318k is too high. @Xzi posted the correct numbers earlier. Its more around 90k. On your link change the search results to all regions and it'll say 90k.

You can make healthy foods with meat. And burgers don't have to be unhealthy. If we have a meat shortage neither markets or fast food places will serve meat. And fast food isn't so bad if you eat only sometimes, like chocolates and sugar isn't bad if you eat it sometimes. Live a little, enjoy life, have a little chocolate and fast food once in a while. And sometimes you need the convenience of a quick meal when you are in a hurry. They are here to stay.

Ah, you're right about the 90k, my bad. That's still pretty appalling compared to India and Vietnam's numbers.

I agree you can make healthy foods with meat, you can make healthy burgers, that's not really the point. My main gripe with fast food isn't that it is unhealthy (though that is a factor), it's the way the industry treats its workers and customers. I don't want to type out an essay, but I will say that the working conditions in fast food restaurants are abysmal. Workers are over-worked and underpaid. There is no upwards mobility in the industry. The fast-food industry (like every other industry, but fast-food especially) is built on the exploitation of its workers and the perpetuation of poverty. Often people who face poverty have no food alternatives but cheap fast food. Not everyone has the luxury to eat fast-food "only sometimes". For some people, that is the only meal they can afford. This is the reason why obesity is such a problem in the US, just look up food deserts. But fast-food corps don't care, because they make billions a year off of their impoverished workers and customers.

TL;DR, fast-food is an industry of oppression and the perpetuation of poverty. It is an inhuman industry that should be destroyed.


HOWEVER, don't let what I've said distract you from my main point. The US is woefully behind other countries (India, Vietnam) in its handling (or mishandling) of Coronavirus. I think the main factors for this mishandling are corporate greed, uneducated populace, incompetent government (both federal and state-side), and ultimately Capitalism.

When you look at countries with socialized health-care (India, Cuba, Vietnam, etc), it's pretty self-evident that they've done a much better job than the US at combating Covid-19.

Just something to think about.