Hardware do we actually know much much the NTSC titles would take up

[Dominator211]

I was watching a video about the Sega Dreamcast the other day and the guy said all of the VMU's ever sold would equal 1tb and that all the Dreamcast games would fit nicely on it.... so that got me thinking how much do all the NTSC Wii titles take up saying you had a copy of every game. DO we eveen have a number for that? I'm just curious

 

[FAST6191]

Maybe not NTSC but I did look into it a few years back after a conversation on IRC (there are a few xbox isos that are harder to come by and we then ran the numbers for a few systems). The number I got back was realistically doable but would have warranted some special measures (if something all fits on an external drive I can order from anywhere then it does not bother me, if I have to span it across multiple drives then I have to consider redundancy properly.

Equally what are dealing in? Wii games used full disc encryption so 4.whatever for the plain dumped and unscrambled iso then multiplied by the number of titles + sub revisions where they were a thing + a bit more of the dual layer (35 across all regions according to http://www.abgx.net/filename/?ch=8&...&bin_search=dvd9&bin_search_results=0&x=0&y=0 , though a few of those will go as they got nuked). Equally why just NTSC? There were some notable exclusives outside it, and possibly some enhanced versions (usually is for all the other systems but I am not sure about the wii at this point). If nothing else if you are going to include all the crappy sports games then you really should do those as well.
Going by the ABGX list for the full whack and assuming 4.35 gigs then just under 18 terabytes. Just under 10 if you do restrict to NTSC only (maybe a bit less as that does not account for the nukes). The wiiware text list does not include the size component though (the main site did but did not allow full listing) so I did not bother with that.

Scrubbed and compressed would drop that somewhat, though proper preservation for possible future systems (said xbox isos often had to be redumped to work with the backwards compatibility of an unhacked 360) would demand the padding be kept in some form (you can always patch it back in later) and being encrypted it it not likely to compress. Assuming you are willing to skimp there then for that I would probably look at one of the USB install size lists and sum the table. I don't have such a list though. I would also want to add wiiware as there were some good things there which never made it outside it. For VC I would probably only pick the notable changes or ones where they got translations where before there were none.
That said I can apparently buy a 6TB drive off the shelf today so I reckon you could probably do a complete NTSC + other notables scrubbed collection on a single drive if that is where you were heading.

For the curious I also wandered over to a torrent site

Atari - 5200 (20081124)
Atari - 7800 (20130121)
Atari - Jaguar (20100525)
Atari - Lynx (20101028)
Atari - ST (20120212)
Bandai - WonderSwan (20101126)
Bandai - WonderSwan Color (20090531)
Casio - Loopy (20090617)
Casio - PV-1000 (20100525)
Coleco - ColecoVision (20100822)
Commodore - 64 (20090416)
Commodore - 64 (PP) (20090507)
Commodore - 64 (Tapes) (20090416)
Commodore - Amiga (20111115)
Commodore - Plus-4 (20090105)
Commodore - VIC-20 (20090106)
Emerson - Arcadia 2001 (20081124)
Entex - Adventure Vision (20081125)
Epoch - Super Cassette Vision (20100525)
Fairchild - Channel F (20081125)
Funtech - Super Acan (20100527)
GamePark - GP32 (20100224)
GCE - Vectrex (20081109)
Hartung - Game Master (20081125)
Magnavox - Odyssey2 (20081127)
Microsoft - MSX (20111129)
Microsoft - MSX 2 (20111129)
NEC - PC Engine - TurboGrafx 16 (20121016)
NEC - Super Grafx (20110307)
Nintendo - Famicom Disk System (20110212)
Nintendo - Game Boy (20120501)
Nintendo - Game Boy Advance (20120512)
Nintendo - Game Boy Color (20121030)
Nintendo - Nintendo 64 (20120427)
Nintendo - Nintendo Entertainment System (20121027)
Nintendo - Pokemon Mini (20081130)
Nintendo - Super Nintendo Entertainment System (20121028)
Nintendo - Virtual Boy (20120206)
Philips - Videopac+ (20081108)
RCA - Studio II (20090104)
Sega - 32X (20110728)
Sega - Game Gear (20120814)
Sega - Master System - Mark III (20120417)
Sega - Mega Drive - Genesis (20120901)
Sega - PICO (20120922)
Sega - SG-1000 (20120425)
SNK - Neo Geo Pocket (20120228)
SNK - Neo Geo Pocket Color (20120227)
Tiger - Game.com (20081125)
Tiger - Gizmondo (20070531)
Watara - Supervision (20081124)
VTech - CreatiVision (20081127)

All in apparently clocks 21.83 GiB (23437324169 Bytes).

 

[Jasjar]

Well there is around 1528 (Well at least according to wikipedia) NTSC wii games. A 1:1 copy of each game is 4.37GB (except for dual layer which is 7.2GB but there is like 5 of them) So with a bit of simple math: (1533*4.37)+(7.2*5)=~6736GB So all the NTSC games would fix nicely on a 8TB HDD. But most of the data on the disk is usually just padding, so you could cut down the size easily to "just" 3TB. There is a tool that can add back the padding(doesn't work for all disks though). So if just wanted just all the NTSC games, 3TB would be enough.

 

[Dominator211]

Maybe not NTSC but I did look into it a few years back after a conversation on IRC (there are a few xbox isos that are harder to come by and we then ran the numbers for a few systems). The number I got back was realistically doable but would have warranted some special measures (if something all fits on an external drive I can order from anywhere then it does not bother me, if I have to span it across multiple drives then I have to consider redundancy properly.

Equally what are dealing in? Wii games used full disc encryption so 4.whatever for the plain dumped and unscrambled iso then multiplied by the number of titles + sub revisions where they were a thing + a bit more of the dual layer (35 across all regions according to http://www.abgx.net/filename/?ch=8&...&bin_search=dvd9&bin_search_results=0&x=0&y=0 , though a few of those will go as they got nuked). Equally why just NTSC? There were some notable exclusives outside it, and possibly some enhanced versions (usually is for all the other systems but I am not sure about the wii at this point). If nothing else if you are going to include all the crappy sports games then you really should do those as well.
Going by the ABGX list for the full whack and assuming 4.35 gigs then just under 18 terabytes. Just under 10 if you do restrict to NTSC only (maybe a bit less as that does not account for the nukes). The wiiware text list does not include the size component though (the main site did but did not allow full listing) so I did not bother with that.

Scrubbed and compressed would drop that somewhat, though proper preservation for possible future systems (said xbox isos often had to be redumped to work with the backwards compatibility of an unhacked 360) would demand the padding be kept in some form (you can always patch it back in later) and being encrypted it it not likely to compress. Assuming you are willing to skimp there then for that I would probably look at one of the USB install size lists and sum the table. I don't have such a list though. I would also want to add wiiware as there were some good things there which never made it outside it. For VC I would probably only pick the notable changes or ones where they got translations where before there were none.
That said I can apparently buy a 6TB drive off the shelf today so I reckon you could probably do a complete NTSC + other notables scrubbed collection on a single drive if that is where you were heading.

For the curious I also wandered over to a torrent site

Atari - 5200 (20081124)
Atari - 7800 (20130121)
Atari - Jaguar (20100525)
Atari - Lynx (20101028)
Atari - ST (20120212)
Bandai - WonderSwan (20101126)
Bandai - WonderSwan Color (20090531)
Casio - Loopy (20090617)
Casio - PV-1000 (20100525)
Coleco - ColecoVision (20100822)
Commodore - 64 (20090416)
Commodore - 64 (PP) (20090507)
Commodore - 64 (Tapes) (20090416)
Commodore - Amiga (20111115)
Commodore - Plus-4 (20090105)
Commodore - VIC-20 (20090106)
Emerson - Arcadia 2001 (20081124)
Entex - Adventure Vision (20081125)
Epoch - Super Cassette Vision (20100525)
Fairchild - Channel F (20081125)
Funtech - Super Acan (20100527)
GamePark - GP32 (20100224)
GCE - Vectrex (20081109)
Hartung - Game Master (20081125)
Magnavox - Odyssey2 (20081127)
Microsoft - MSX (20111129)
Microsoft - MSX 2 (20111129)
NEC - PC Engine - TurboGrafx 16 (20121016)
NEC - Super Grafx (20110307)
Nintendo - Famicom Disk System (20110212)
Nintendo - Game Boy (20120501)
Nintendo - Game Boy Advance (20120512)
Nintendo - Game Boy Color (20121030)
Nintendo - Nintendo 64 (20120427)
Nintendo - Nintendo Entertainment System (20121027)
Nintendo - Pokemon Mini (20081130)
Nintendo - Super Nintendo Entertainment System (20121028)
Nintendo - Virtual Boy (20120206)
Philips - Videopac+ (20081108)
RCA - Studio II (20090104)
Sega - 32X (20110728)
Sega - Game Gear (20120814)
Sega - Master System - Mark III (20120417)
Sega - Mega Drive - Genesis (20120901)
Sega - PICO (20120922)
Sega - SG-1000 (20120425)
SNK - Neo Geo Pocket (20120228)
SNK - Neo Geo Pocket Color (20120227)
Tiger - Game.com (20081125)
Tiger - Gizmondo (20070531)
Watara - Supervision (20081124)
VTech - CreatiVision (20081127)

All in apparently clocks 21.83 GiB (23437324169 Bytes).

well thank you for the very long answer.... i didnt understand what much of that meant like the scrubbing and what not but thank you very much for taking the time to respond

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Well there is around 1528 (Well at least according to wikipedia) NTSC wii games. A 1:1 copy of each game is 4.37GB (except for dual layer which is 7.2GB but there is like 5 of them) So with a bit of simple math: (1533*4.37)+(7.2*5)=~6736GB So all the NTSC games would fix nicely on a 8TB HDD. But most of the data on the disk is usually just padding, so you could cut down the size easily to "just" 3TB. There is a tool that can add back the padding(doesn't work for all disks though). So if just wanted just all the NTSC games, 3TB would be enough.

oh this explains it so does usbloader scrub them when it installs them becuase it seems to only take up the space the game needs

 

[FAST6191]

i didnt understand what much of that meant like the scrubbing and what not

Scrambled vs unscrambled is just a really old thing, don't need to worry about it other than to know you want unscrambled if you ever encounter such a thing which I doubt you would as you would have to really go looking for that one.

Scrubbing. There are multiple types but we will go with the classic style for now. For the purposes of this discussion the resulting size is not going to be amazingly different for the other types either.
The whole wii disc is encrypted. This basically means every byte is random (which does not compress) and you theoretically need all of them so no trimming in the conventional sense.
One game however was noted for having plain 00 or something between its actual files. Along comes a guy named Dack and wonders if we could do that for all games. Turns out indeed we can (I don't think it changed for later games in the system) and it even works on systems with only a modded DVD drive which is nice. With the space between the actual files cleaned, or scrubbed if you will, of the random garbage you could compress the iso and actually gain something for your trouble.

However it was seen on several systems before now, the original xbox being a great example, that when later systems or mods or something come along that all your nice modified files which worked fine before may no longer work. It would also have been trivial for Nintendo to do checks on the data that was scrubbed to see if it is still good as well. To that end "I want all games on USB on my wii" is a rather different total size to wanting to preserve all the isos -- obviously some games used all the space available but things like New Super Mario Brothers was noted for only being a few hundred megabytes (vs 4.whatever gigabytes for a unscrubbed iso).
It is possible to have a scrubbed iso for use however you will and all the data in the scrubbed section stored as a recovery or patch file such that you can restore it (even having the recovery data on another drive) at a later date. Some programs also exist which attempt to infill the data without necessarily having it to stick in there (that was what Jasjar was referencing)l but far more reliable to just use a patching format of some form.

 

[Dominator211]

Scrambled vs unscrambled is just a really old thing, don't need to worry about it other than to know you want unscrambled if you ever encounter such a thing which I doubt you would as you would have to really go looking for that one.

Scrubbing. There are multiple types but we will go with the classic style for now. For the purposes of this discussion the resulting size is not going to be amazingly different for the other types either.
The whole wii disc is encrypted. This basically means every byte is random (which does not compress) and you theoretically need all of them so no trimming in the conventional sense.
One game however was noted for having plain 00 or something between its actual files. Along comes a guy named Dack and wonders if we could do that for all games. Turns out indeed we can (I don't think it changed for later games in the system) and it even works on systems with only a modded DVD drive which is nice. With the space between the actual files cleaned, or scrubbed if you will, of the random garbage you could compress the iso and actually gain something for your trouble.

However it was seen on several systems before now, the original xbox being a great example, that when later systems or mods or something come along that all your nice modified files which worked fine before may no longer work. It would also have been trivial for Nintendo to do checks on the data that was scrubbed to see if it is still good as well. To that end "I want all games on USB on my wii" is a rather different total size to wanting to preserve all the isos -- obviously some games used all the space available but things like New Super Mario Brothers was noted for only being a few hundred megabytes (vs 4.whatever gigabytes for a unscrubbed iso).
It is possible to have a scrubbed iso for use however you will and all the data in the scrubbed section stored as a recovery or patch file such that you can restore it (even having the recovery data on another drive) at a later date. Some programs also exist which attempt to infill the data without necessarily having it to stick in there (that was what Jasjar was referencing)l but far more reliable to just use a patching format of some form.

i get what you are saying, but lets say super mario bros wii. that game is about 2gb per say on usbloader gx so you mean this is not the scrubbed version and that the actual game is even smaller....?

 

[Jasjar]

The 2GB is the scrubbed version. Unscrubbed is always 4.37GB.

 

[Dominator211]

The 2GB is the scrubbed version. Unscrubbed is always 4.37GB.

so usboader scrubbs

 

[Jasjar]

No the file you have was scrubbed

 

[Dominator211]

No the file you have was scrubbed

but that is the amunt taken up of the game

 

[Jasjar]

It is the amount of space taken up by the scrubbed file. (just the files of the game without the padding)

 

[Dominator211]

It is the amount of space taken up by the scrubbed file

yes so usbloader automatically scrubbs the filkes when installs them, yes?

 

[Jasjar]

UsbLoader does not scrub games, the game you downloaded was scrubbed or the tool you used to copy the game to a HDD scrubbed it.

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

As some one who downloads large ISO sets a lot... I fully recommend anything you can do to save space and also while I love the Wii and have loads of games for it, what I would consider the complete NTSC set for all intents and purposes with anything even remotely resembling a good game.... My personal set is 262GB's compressed and some of those are very very small after you trim the wasted space.

This is my top 155 games... I would post a list but I am not typing in that (if some one knows a tool that would generate a list and I could post it here I would)

 

[aSpookyNinja]

As some one who downloads large ISO sets a lot... I fully recommend anything you can do to save space and also while I love the Wii and have loads of games for it, what I would consider the complete NTSC set for all intents and purposes with anything even remotely resembling a good game.... My personal set is 262GB's compressed and some of those are very very small after you trim the wasted space.

This is my top 155 games... I would post a list but I am not typing in that (if some one knows a tool that would generate a list and I could post it here I would)

if on windows, and the drive is able to be mounted normally, use cmd to generate a filelist with 'dir /B > list.txt'

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

if on windows, and the drive is able to be mounted normally, use cmd to generate a filelist with 'dir /B > list.txt'

I tried but either I don't know the command and I am sure I am doing something wrong... or it's that each game is in it's own folder? WBFS formant.

 

[aSpookyNinja]

I tried but either I don't know the command and I am sure I am doing something wrong... or it's that each game is in it's own folder? WBFS formant.

Yeah, WBFS can't be mounted to where you can access it like a normal drive. I'd say check whatever tool you use to manage the drive and see if there's an option to generate a list.

 

[FAST6191]

yes so usbloader automatically scrubbs the filkes when installs them, yes?

Scrubbing is a specific activity with a fairly narrow meaning. It is also not one that has any great meaning outside the Wii; the original xbox stuff (and PC, DS... any system with a filesystem really) with the removed languages/recompressed videos/whatever to get it down in size would be called a ripped iso, and yes it gets confusing as the act of dumping an iso from a disc tends to be also called ripping. Most other systems don't fill or encrypt the junk -- go through the 360 nukes list and some of the reasons will include a phrase like m0 compression as the releaser did not compress their release like they should have.

USB loaders, or the things you used to prep it all, do tend* remove all the padding between files and leave you with just the game's files when you stick the iso into another format. Your space savings will then be equivalent to the scrubbed and compressed iso, give or take a tiny fraction as scrubbing is not perfect by design.

*you will have to go out of your way to do it today but you could leave it all the padding there with some of them.

Personally if I were collecting the games I would not leave them as WBFS and call it a day. Scrubbed and compressed isos would be acceptable though. Having full clean rips is mainly a hedge against future systems and Nintendo has abandoned the Wii now and the wii u was fine with it. If in 5 years a wii classic is released, and cares about the padding, then either suck it up and download again or realise that dolphin is probably a far superior option.

 

[GreyWolf]

UsbLoader does not scrub games, the game you downloaded was scrubbed or the tool you used to copy the game to a HDD scrubbed it.

Yes it does. CleanRip doesn't scrub anything. It makes 1:1 disc images.

WBFS files are always "scrubbed." They only contain the data that was actually allocated on the original disc. Custom IOSes like d2x read the WBFS files as if the empty space that was on the original disc was still there.

 

[Dominator211]

UsbLoader does not scrub games, the game you downloaded was scrubbed or the tool you used to copy the game to an HDD scrubbed it.

but I never downloaded any games i only installed the ones that I had so how does usbloader know how much data is actually on the disk if it isn't scrubbing it. if it isn't scrubbing the games then why doesn't every game just come up as 4.37 GB

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Scrubbing is a specific activity with a fairly narrow meaning. It is also not one that has any great meaning outside the Wii; the original xbox stuff (and PC, DS... any system with a filesystem really) with the removed languages/recompressed videos/whatever to get it down in size would be called a ripped iso, and yes it gets confusing as the act of dumping an iso from a disc tends to be also called ripping. Most other systems don't fill or encrypt the junk -- go through the 360 nukes list and some of the reasons will include a phrase like m0 compression as the releaser did not compress their release like they should have.

USB loaders, or the things you used to prep it all, do tend* remove all the padding between files and leave you with just the game's files when you stick the iso into another format. Your space savings will then be equivalent to the scrubbed and compressed iso, give or take a tiny fraction as scrubbing is not perfect by design.

*you will have to go out of your way to do it today but you could leave it all the padding there with some of them.

Personally if I were collecting the games I would not leave them as WBFS and call it a day. Scrubbed and compressed isos would be acceptable though. Having full clean rips is mainly a hedge against future systems and Nintendo has abandoned the Wii now and the wii u was fine with it. If in 5 years a wii classic is released, and cares about the padding, then either suck it up and download again or realise that dolphin is probably a far superior option.

also, the WBFS Files system is outdated and has a max game limit of 500 so that is why i have my drive formatted as NTFS