Hacking Can I program for XNA with any mods without going online?

[Elliander]

Quick Question: With a Dual NAND, am I still limited in terms of which exploit I can use? For example, I read that RGH2 is slower on Phat consoles than RGH1, but my version is updated later. Since there would be a physical switch, wouldn't that mean that the second NAND is going to have a lower firmware number and therefore vulnerable to more options?

 

[DinohScene]

Spoiler: Bloody mega quotes

That's good to know. In that case, I would likely disconnect the Ethernet cable and block MS DNS and lock up the "official" profile HD. Since I rarely play online anyway, I could just switch back as needed. I don't suppose there would be any way to replace the switch with a key hole to turn instead though?

Oh, and I read that unofficial hard drives have problems playing xbox 1 games? Is that also the case with a hacked 360? and are there any ways to improve compatibility? Also, are there any ways to transfer saves and music from an old xbox to a 360? I have my old Xbox dev hardware in the attic with my old xbox. I can access any of the data on it, but for some reason I was never able to successfully transfer anything between them.



Thanks. When CR4 comes out I will look around for someone who can. Of course, if it ends up costing more than a new console, I would be better off risking it myself. lol



Well, I looked up XBLStealth and all I could find is links pointing to a domain for sale. Even if it is legit, it doesn't matter if the service is defunct. I looked up XBLSE, and it looks like a token sale system. That leads me to believe that it's similar to the market for PS3 console IDs. If someone manages to crack the console IDs for the PS3 they could easily sell them for use until banned and keep turning out more.



I probably can't use that. That's probably why the xbox 360 has an update every few weeks that you have to go through to play games you paid for >.<




I have to agree with you there. I actually own all of my games anyway and am certainly NOT a pirate. (I just like the extra usability of hacked consoles) It's no problem for me to just put a disk in to play online. I would rather spend money on a dual NAND than money on a service like this anyway, especially since, as I said before, my objective is to eventually get back into game programming and I would need official online features for that if I end up doing more work with the xbox.

Don't use any profiles you use for online gaming with your hacked state.
If you got a turnkey that passes an electrical signal then sure.

Follow up me tutorial on installing FSD.
It'll let you restore the HDDX partiton + Xbox emulator.
It's possible, but only retail content saves can be executed (development stuff not sure about it but music you cannot play unless you play games that support it)

Nah the DemoN is a solid 60 quid for sure.
CR4 is rumored to be cheaper so I estimate it around 40 quid.
100 quid in total since you can do the NAND dumping with the DemoN.

360's system works with Keyvaults.
Banned keyvault means banned 360, no way to reverse it other then to inject a new retail keyvault (which will get banned again)
Kids with COD use hacked machines to sell modded lobbies etc as well as cheating online.
Imho, hardware hacked consoles don't belong on online servers as they can ruin gameplay tremendously by cheaters.

JTAG has been patched since 7371.
Chances of you finding a 7371 console are extremely low, unless you ressurect a RRoD Xenon/Zephyr that's been laying in the closet since summer '09.
You're stuck with using either R-JTAG or the new CR4.
Besides, JTAGs can't Dual NAND since MS is able to detect the JTAG wiring (unlike the glitch chips that can be turned off completely)
And no, Downgrading isn't possible cause of the burned eFuses.
Once an eFuse is burnt, there's no way to run an older bootloader set without glitching 2BL.
You're stuck with R-JTAG or the CR4.

 

[Elliander]

Follow up my tutorial on installing FSD.
It'll let you restore the HDDX partiton + Xbox emulator.
It's possible, but only retail content saves can be executed (development stuff not sure about it but music you cannot play unless you play games that support it)

Well, the only music on the drive are songs I ripped from CDs that are too worn out to play anymore, and beyond that just retail disc saves that I would rather not have to start over with.
So if I understand correctly, I would basically copy the entire partition from the xbox as a whole onto a partition of the internal hard drive?

Imho, hardware hacked consoles don't belong on online servers as they can ruin gameplay tremendously by cheaters.

I agree, but I can think of a few examples of modding that doesn't really hurt anyone. For example, I was pretty active on FFXI online modding for a while, and I attempted to do so on the 360, but even after getting access to the file system the file structure was still far too different to swap dats. All that would do is allow me to see character models differently than other people, which impacts my console and no other.

Also, the only online shooter game I found interesting, Shadowrun, had an annoying habit of punishing me for winning. In the middle of a match it would automatically "rebalance" the teams by putting the best player from the winning team onto the losing team. I hated it, and I could think of many ways that modding that gameplay would make the game play more fair.

JTAG has been patched since 7371.
Chances of you finding a 7371 console are extremely low, unless you ressurect a RRoD Xenon/Zephyr that's been laying in the closet since summer '09.
You're stuck with using either R-JTAG or the new CR4.
Besides, JTAGs can't Dual NAND since MS is able to detect the JTAG wiring (unlike the glitch chips that can be turned off completely)
And no, Downgrading isn't possible cause of the burned eFuses.
Once an eFuse is burnt, there's no way to run an older bootloader set without glitching 2BL.
You're stuck with R-JTAG or the CR4.

Ya, I read about the limitations of JTAG, but it's the difference between RGH 1 and 2 that I am more interested in. I am aware that RGH can't normally run on the firmware I am on, leaving me stuck with RGH2, which from what I read is slower than RGH1 on phat consoles, but if DemoN just switches between NAND wouldn't that mean that the official firmware level doesn't matter, and that I can use RGH1 afterall? Or am I missing something?

As for the difference between RGH1 and R-JTAG, I am less clear on. Which is better?

Or maybe the better question is: Which is better for a Phat JASPER console for fastest boot times, since I guess the only real difference is the exploit method?

 

[DinohScene]

Entire E partition can be copied to HDDX yes.
However, you won't be able to access the music (unless you use FSD's filemanager) or use a xbox game that supports it.

Doesn't belong online.
MS doesn't endorse game modding on the 360, nor do legit players online would like cheaters/modders in their room.
Either stick to legit play or pick a LiNK room and hack/cheat all you want. (if the games support syslinking)

RGH is for dashes up to 14699 and RGH 2 (Trinity hack) is up to dashes 14719 on Phats.
RGH2 on Slims is every dash until 14719.
R-JTAG is for dashes over 14719 (also for below since some 360's have trouble booting on RGH2)

Since your bootloader has to be glitched and your eFuses will refuse to boot bootloaders which have a different eFuse value, you're absolutely stuck on R-JTAG or using the CR4.
You cannot ever downgrade it to use an older hack.
Unless you desolder the CPU and put in an older Jasper CPU which has less eFuses burnt.

For your console and your dash, R-JTAG or the CR4 is the only option.
JTAG,RGH and RGH2 will not boot on your dash version since the eFuse value has changed inside the CPU (physically changed so you can't reverse it)
R-JTAG is out of production so left over stock is being sold.
CR4 is in testing stages so you'll have to wait a few weeks before it's released.

Personally, I'd wait for the CR4.

 

[Elliander]

Entire E partition can be copied to HDDX yes.
However, you won't be able to access the music (unless you use FSD's filemanager) or use a xbox game that supports it.

Can the mods allow access to more Xbox games? I know that some of my retail discs don't work in the 360 (For example, Dr. Muto doesn't load at all) or are we still stuck with official compatibility restrictions? And what about game mods? Does it basically treat this as if it's a real xbox and a real xbox hdd?

Can you refer me to the link to your guide?

Doesn't belong online.
MS doesn't endorse game modding on the 360, nor do legit players online would like cheaters/modders in their room.
Either stick to legit play or pick a LiNK room and hack/cheat all you want. (if the games support syslinking)

DAT swapping isn't cheating and has no impact on other players. Not only that, but without a special CRC check it's impossible to detect - unlike cheats, which allow the player to do things that isn't otherwise possible. I can support being against cheating, but I can't possibly understand being against that. MS is against hardware modding too, and that's not stopping anyone here, so that's not really much of an argument either. Not that it matters anyway, since it's much more difficult to swap dat files on the xbox 360 than any other console. I was never able to get it to work anyway.

RGH is for dashes up to 14699 and RGH 2 (Trinity hack) is up to dashes 14719 on Phats.
RGH2 on Slims is every dash until 14719.
R-JTAG is for dashes over 14719 (also for below since some 360's have trouble booting on RGH2).

Yeah, I read that, but if there is a second NAND chip being physically inserted, and I will keep updating the official nand chip, why does that matter? Also, aside from what each version is for, how do the versions compare? I read that comparison in quite a few places, but is there a "better than" equation to consider?

Since your bootloader has to be glitched and your eFuses will refuse to boot bootloaders which have a different eFuse value, you're absolutely stuck on R-JTAG or using the CR4.
You cannot ever downgrade it to use an older hack.
Unless you desolder the CPU and put in an older Jasper CPU which has less eFuses burnt.

For your console and your dash, R-JTAG or the CR4 is the only option.

... what do you mean "or" using the CR4? I was under the impression I needed to use Cool Runner, and DemoN, and also a R-JTAG/RGH?

JTAG,RGH and RGH2 will not boot on your dash version since the eFuse value has changed inside the CPU (physically changed so you can't reverse it)

Wait... you mean that during updates, that physically burn out part of the CPU? No wonder I went through so many red ring consoles...

R-JTAG is out of production so left over stock is being sold.
CR4 is in testing stages so you'll have to wait a few weeks before it's released.

Personally, I'd wait for the CR4.

I was planning to anyway, but now I am really confused about the role all the parts have. >.<

 

[DinohScene]

Can the mods allow access to more Xbox games? I know that some of my retail discs don't work in the 360 (For example, Dr. Muto doesn't load at all) or are we still stuck with official compatibility restrictions? And what about game mods? Does it basically treat this as if it's a real xbox and a real xbox hdd?

Can you refer me to the link to your guide?

DAT swapping isn't cheating and has no impact on other players. Not only that, but without a special CRC check it's impossible to detect - unlike cheats, which allow the player to do things that isn't otherwise possible. I can support being against cheating, but I can't possibly understand being against that. MS is against hardware modding too, and that's not stopping anyone here, so that's not really much of an argument either. Not that it matters anyway, since it's much more difficult to swap dat files on the xbox 360 than any other console. I was never able to get it to work anyway.

Yeah, I read that, but if there is a second NAND chip being physically inserted, and I will keep updating the official nand chip, why does that matter? Also, aside from what each version is for, how do the versions compare? I read that comparison in quite a few places, but is there a "better than" equation to consider?

... what do you mean "or" using the CR4? I was under the impression I needed to use Cool Runner, and DemoN, and also a R-JTAG/RGH?

Wait... you mean that during updates, that physically burn out part of the CPU? No wonder I went through so many red ring consoles...


I was planning to anyway, but now I am really confused about the role all the parts have. >.<

Couple of games can be booted.
Hello Kitty roller rescue won't boot on the stock emulator, but boots perfectly fine on the hacked emulator.
So yep, a couple of more games.
Don't expect much tho.
Links here.

I know that modders found a way to load scripts in GTA 4 (also in online play)
First it where simple texture replacements etc, quickly it also became weapon hacking and even kill commands on random players.
Every upside of legit hacking/modding has a downside.
Personally, I think it doesn't belong on XBLive at all.
Besides, modding online only increases chances of your console getting banned (seeing you share yours with others, they be the victim of it then)

You cannot downgrade a 360.
It's not possible unless you desolder the CPU.
If your dash is over 15xxx, you're stuck with the R-JTAG or CR4.
Regardless of what hacked NAND you'll create.
There's still a part of the bootloader that gets decrypted and checked for signatures/hashes etc.
There's no way you can turn back to an older hack if you haven't previously obtained your CPU key.


R-JTAG is the last hack for the Phatties to come out.
It will be replaced by the CR4.
That's why you still can chose (as long as you can find the R-JTAG chip)
Only thing you need in your situation is a R-JTAG chip + DemoN OR a CR4 chip + DemoN.


RRoD is a result of cold solderjoints under the CPU/GPU/(H)ANA/RAM, not of eFuse burning.
And they are 95% the result of overheating (Xenons/Zephyr consoles)
Other 5% is corrupted NAND/other hardware related failures

Forget about JTAG/RGH/RGH2.
Like I said, your dashboard can only be exploited by the R-JTAG chip OR the CR4 chip.
You don't need both, you only need one.


Also, next time if you quote a post, try quoting it all together or quote specific parts of text.
It's kinda annoying to constantly scroll up and give a good answer at the same time ;p

 

[Elliander]

Thanks for the links and additional explanation.

As for red ring of death, I was under the impression that it was actually related to the replacement of lead ball bearings due to European laws. The new material cracks more easily due to heating and cooling within a few years which is why even after fixing existing problems with a red ring is still comes back. That's also why the PlayStation 3 gets the yellow ring problem. That's why when I bought my ps3 I bought one that was already hard modded with lead ball bearings and a cooler running power supply, and as a precaution placed it on a surface line with laptop cooling fans. Even with the most intense game play, I have never even come close to overheating.

If the eFuses burning out don't cause an increase in heat, then it wouldn't increase the problem. Still the idea of the console being intentionally damaged is a bit disconcerting, and also raises an important question:

If the official updates can burn out a part of the CPU, then doesn't that mean Microsoft can close the exploits that allow a dual NAND to function at all? Where any official update can still kill any mods?

...

As for modding, I'm sorry but I still have to disagree with you. Just because someone decided to cheat, does not in and of itself make everyone a cheater.

In the final fantasy scene, it's a little bit more complicated than just texture swapping. Entire groups of equipment, and characters would be completely altered for updated graphics. Some monsters that look the same regardless of the area given more variety. These enrich the game.No one has ever been banned for this.

Sure, a few people took to cheating. It was found that a few game mechanics were handled by the local computer, but did this work quickly banned and the problem fixed.

The only thing close to changing the mechanics was with the Final Fantasy windower whose primary goal was to give us a window mode, which for a while Square refused. After it gained popularity, square decided to make it a feature.

Then there is a game called populous the beginning. That scene is pretty much dead, but I still pay for the servers to stay online. We figured out how to change the game mechanics, change of subjects and colors, even some of the rules of the game. I was the first to suggest that there was something beyond the constant.dat file, but another team member was the one who found it. It was placed within a customized matchmaker and it gave the players the freedom to choose how they wanted to play. I also made over half of the online levels for play.

I can agree with you that cheating has no place online, but I still can't possibly understand the sentiment of being against modifying online games.

 

[DinohScene]

That's cause the solder balls are made out of tin instead of a tin/lead allow.
Tin/lead alloy is more soft and allows for more stretching before breaking.

eFuse technology is used in more devices.
It's just an anti downgrade method.
Dual NAND can't be patched since you just place a switch to the main voltage line of the NAND and switch it to the second NAND.
CPU can't tell if it's booting from the 1st or 2nd NAND.


Any modding online can be cheating.
MS doesn't see it any different.

Modded games should be held in a private room on LiNK.
Even if it's texture hacking, it could give yourself an advantage.
Game modding is great, but not online.

 

[Elliander]

That's cause the solder balls are made out of tin instead of a tin/lead allow.
Tin/lead alloy is more soft and allows for more stretching before breaking.

Right, but the European Union banned lead in electronics, and it was cheaper to go with one design for the entire world. So how is it that newer versions don't break down as easily?

eFuse technology is used in more devices.
It's just an anti downgrade method.
Dual NAND can't be patched since you just place a switch to the main voltage line of the NAND and switch it to the second NAND.
CPU can't tell if it's booting from the 1st or 2nd NAND.

So the only thing it does is prevent down grading? So if you put a second NAND chip in, and switch the voltage, and if it can't tell the difference, how is it that you are still limited by the official NAND chip?

Any modding online can be cheating.
MS doesn't see it any different.


Even if it's texture hacking, it could give yourself an advantage.

What Microsoft believes is irrelevant especially in regards to my examples which don't even use MS servers, and unless an unfair advantage is given it isn't cheating. Can you give me an example of an unfair advantage given?

 

[DinohScene]

Produce less heat.
That and the cooling is said to be improved.
(honestly, if Microsoft would to take an intake and outtake fan, they wouldn't have had heating issues)
Well that and the 90nm process the Xenon CPU and Xenos GPU where made off produce more heat then the 65nm and 45nm ones.
Iirc, the 22nm is used in the Trinity/Corona, making them produce less heat (also require less power)

Like I said a couple of times before, eFuses are physical fuses inside the CPU, they get burned, limiting what bootloaders you can run.
Regardless of NAND chip, you CANNOT and WIL NOT be able to boot older bootloaders on a updated CPU.

If it doesn't use MS servers then it's only playable on LiNK or Xlink Kai.
They don't care about those services, they only care about their own since the profit is made from their own servers (people paying for XBLG)

Unfair advantage would be brighter textured enemies, making them easier to spot etc.

 

[Elliander]

Produce less heat.
That and the cooling is said to be improved.
(honestly, if Microsoft would to take an intake and outtake fan, they wouldn't have had heating issues)
Well that and the 90nm process the Xenon CPU and Xenos GPU where made off produce more heat then the 65nm and 45nm ones.
Iirc, the 22nm is used in the Trinity/Corona, making them produce less heat (also require less power)

An intake and outtake fan would have been great. Something the flow through the console. Maybe even an official liquid cooling console even. Maybe if they did that MS wouldn't have lost so much money.

Like I said a couple of times before, eFuses are physical fuses inside the CPU, they get burned, limiting what bootloaders you can run.
Regardless of NAND chip, you CANNOT and WIL NOT be able to boot older bootloaders on a updated CPU.

Yes, I read that, but I don't think you understand my question, so let me give you a scenario:

Let's say I have a dual NAND Xbox 360. I want to play online with the official NAND and MS tells me to update. I do so, and it updates to a later version number than is supported by whatever exploit method I'm using. What's to stop the eFuses from being blown thus rendering the fake NAND chip inoperable?

If it doesn't use MS servers then it's only playable on LiNK or Xlink Kai.
They don't care about those services, they only care about their own since the profit is made from their own servers (people paying for XBLG)

Not quite. A game can pass through MS without being on an MS server. Final Fantasy XI is entirely on their own dedicated servers, but MS, not wanting to open the doors to it's console being like it's operating systems, required required square to pass through their servers before logging in. Once you log in, then you are not even connected through MS servers anymore. If they had to be on MS servers, you wouldn't be able to play with people on PS3 or Computers.

Unfair advantage would be brighter textured enemies, making them easier to spot etc.

Ahh, so you are only thinking of shooter games?

 

[DinohScene]

Liquid cooling would be to expensive.
MS even cheaped out on DVD laser protection pads which where 0.25 cents a piece.
Seeing consoles will be produced in millions, the costs would be astronomical.

You can desolder a resistor, but the update will fail.
As log as you have your CPU key, you can build any hacked NAND.
The hacked NANDs contain the same updated bootloaders but will boot to a vulnerable kernel.
IF, you accept a dash update that blows fuses, the chances are that you can't boot from the 2nd NAND chip (hacked state)
Only thing you'll need to do is wait till JRunner gets updated and XeBuild gets updated (takes half a week to 1/2 weeks after an update)
Then you'll just update the NAND via this guide and you're set again.

You're still connected to the MS servers as your gamertag is also online.

Not only shooters but also racer games and other games which hold competative gameplay.
Bottomline is, MS doesn't like it and it can be exploited for unfair advantages.
It just does not belong on online servers where others play with unmodified consoles.

Take it to Link/XLink Kai and nobody will complain about it.

 

[cdoty]

Will that app allow me to copy the files to a USB stick and walk it to the Xbox with updates, or do I still need to upload it to their servers each and every time I make even a slight edit? What about giving others the opportunity to test my games? Either single player, or with online multiplayer and/or score functionality?

For testing, your XBox and PC must be on the same network. Visual Studio finds your XBox, which is running XNA Game Studio Connect, and uploads the game for testing:

http://xbox.create.msdn.com/en-US/home/membership

I don't remember if Microsoft allows free apps, but you can distribute it for as low as $1. The only limitation is that you can only release 10 apps a year, per $99 purchase.

Currently, I am brushing up on my C and C++ before getting back into game design, and I would really like to get into Wii Homebrew, but I would love to be able to officially develop games if possible. I will probably put off the XNA stuff a bit longer though.

If you're interested in developing official games, why not check out the Ouya? Assuming you're using windows, you can use the Tegra Application Development Pack to develop and debug games, on the Ouya, with Visual Studio. And, the Ouya will cost about as much as The XNA membership, and probably less than modifying an XBox.

Have a look at my Super Play open sourced game engine, which supports the Ouya, and a 'few' other systems.