Gaming Between Xbox One and PS4 I went and bought a Wii U

[calmwaters]

You're missing my point that what can be considered "mature" extends far beyond something that can be related, like sex and gore.

Mmmkay; what? This line of thinking that a games' maturity extends far beyond conventional ESRB ratings is the same kind that allows people to say there is sexism in the Zelda games and animal cruelty in Mario. Stop hopping for things that aren't there; your sheer force of will might make them come to life, but that likely won't happen.

And it's hard to say Nintendo is still creative when they've produced the same franchises for decades, with most of them being incredibly samey. And their "creativity" is console gimmicks now, not creating intuitive gameplay like they used to.

Console gimmicks. Are the bongo drums from Donkey King: Jungle Beat and the guns used for shooters on the Wii gimmicky? And the Wii remote/nunchuk controls aren't gimmicky; the way the developers make you jerk them around is.

Your point sounds like "Just believe Nintendo is creative and they'll be creative!" Which makes absolutely no sense.

I guess not; just believe Activision is creative and they will be. Yeah... not happening...

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Mmmkay; what? This line of thinking that a games' maturity extends far beyond conventional ESRB ratings is the same kind that allows people to say there is sexism in the Zelda games and animal cruelty in Mario. Stop hopping for things that aren't there; your sheer force of will might make them come to life, but that likely won't happen.

Console gimmicks. Are the bongo drums from Donkey King: Jungle Beat and the guns used for shooters on the Wii gimmicky? And the Wii remote/nunchuk controls aren't gimmicky; the way the developers make you jerk them around is.


I guess not; just believe Activision is creative and they will be. Yeah... not happening...

I'm saying that you can make a game that can explore some complex themes and still be E or T rated. Like for a TV comparison, let's take Avatar: The Last Airbender (I could choose Korra but I wouldn't say it's as strong). On the front it's a fun show for that Y7 audience, but it's a lot deeper than that. There's overlying themes of genocide, war, just some dark ass shit that you wouldn't think of being in a "kid's show". Like Zelda offers a perfect universe for this but they have no balls to do it. It's why I liked Twilight Princess as much as I did. It wasn't exactly mature in terms of themes but it had some darker moments and was moody as fuck. In terms of atmosphere it's easily the best Zelda game and it has some truly cool moments. Then they step this all backwards with Skyward Sword which is so goddamn bland it hurts. You just seem to lack a fundamental understanding of maturity in terms of story or theme. There will always be room for light and fun games but sometimes we want something a bit deeper. It's why I always liked Sony games, because they span the spectrum. They have everything from your light and fluffy platformers like Crash Bandicoot or Ratchet and Clank to your more complex games like The Last of Us. They touch into every demographic a bit so you've got variety.

Even if Nintendo could find a good writing staff and push out a straight up adult game with a new IP. That'd be a really ballsy move that'd be really great. But they really don't have the balls for it.

Yes the bongos are gimmicky, yes the gun is gimmicky, yes the Wii itself is gimmicky. The Wiimote was by and far shit. The only games I'd say were actually fun with it were MadWorld and Red Steel 2. For everything else it was really goddamn awful. It's hard to deny you'd have rather played Super Mario Galaxy with a regular controller than a Wiimote. Or pretty much any of the top ten Wii games.

Also I said your point sounds like if you believe something hard enough it'll just happen. You responded nonsensically.

 

[calmwaters]

*snip*
Yes the bongos are gimmicky, yes the gun is gimmicky, yes the Wii itself is gimmicky. The Wiimote was by and far shit. The only games I'd say were actually fun with it were MadWorld and Red Steel 2. For everything else it was really goddamn awful. It's hard to deny you'd have rather played Super Mario Galaxy with a regular controller than a Wiimote. Or pretty much any of the top ten Wii games.

Also I said your point sounds like if you believe something hard enough it'll just happen. You responded nonsensically.

I actually liked playing with the remote. I didn't use any GameCube/Classic controllers because the 'Cube ones are for, well, the 'Cube. And they only released the classic controllers for the Virtual Console titles; it just happens that they were also compatible with the games that used the 'Cube controllers. Besides, playing with the remote/nunchuk doesn't force you to be a couch potato or make you sit the length of the cord away from the television. My only gripe with the Wii controllers was that they never promoted the wireless nunchuks that were made. Honestly, it would've made games easier to play, even the ones with jerky movements. Wireless > Wired (and I'm not just talking about your computer's internet)

On my point that was made: don't get me started on how pessimism runs rampant in this world, especially here in the U.S. It is not the thread for this.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I actually liked playing with the remote. I didn't use any GameCube/Classic controllers because the 'Cube ones are for, well, the 'Cube. And they only released the classic controllers for the Virtual Console titles; it just happens that they were also compatible with the games that used the 'Cube controllers. Besides, playing with the remote/nunchuk doesn't force you to be a couch potato or make you sit the length of the cord away from the television. My only gripe with the Wii controllers was that they never promoted the wireless nunchuks that were made. Honestly, it would've made games easier to play, even the ones with jerky movements. Wireless > Wired (and I'm not just talking about your computer's internet)

On my point that was made: don't get me started on how pessimism runs rampant in this world, especially here in the U.S. It is not the thread for this.

But it makes a ton a games need to support it or use it or strongarm me into buying an overpriced alternative controller to play some games effectively. Try playing Monster Hunter 3 or Xenoblade with a Wiimote/nunchuck and tell me it's fine. Albeit I didn't like either of these games but I tried them and it was annoying using the Wiimote.

I'm not being pessimistic, I'm saying that I want Nintendo to be creative but they aren't and from what I've seen they show no signs of changing. I'd say the best thing they've done is at least get some smaller titles signed on like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 but it really won't win them any points in terms of keeping them alive, just some brownie points from a small fanbase.

 

[calmwaters]

But it makes a ton a games need to support it or use it or strongarm me into buying an overpriced alternative controller to play some games effectively. Try playing Monster Hunter 3 or Xenoblade with a Wiimote/nunchuck and tell me it's fine. Albeit I didn't like either of these games but I tried them and it was annoying using the Wiimote.

I'm not being pessimistic, I'm saying that I want Nintendo to be creative but they aren't and from what I've seen they show no signs of changing. I'd say the best thing they've done is at least get some smaller titles signed on like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 but it really won't win them any points in terms of keeping them alive, just some brownie points from a small fanbase.

I did play Monster Hunter and Xenoblade and the controls were as confusing as all hell in both of them (in Xenoblade, frustrating as well). I don't think a different controller would've made a difference.

People want change, but they complain when they get it because it's new. But we're complaining because we want Nintendo to change and they aren't. Maybe they think it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I did play Monster Hunter and Xenoblade and the controls were as confusing as all hell in both of them (in Xenoblade, frustrating as well). I don't think a different controller would've made a difference.

People want change, but they complain when they get it because it's new. But we're complaining because we want Nintendo to change and they aren't. Maybe they think it's better to be safe than sorry.

A different controller would've made them leagues better, ask anyone who understands them and plays them.

Also there's a formula to change. When you hit gold on a game you don't want to change it immediately. People want some more of it for a while, maybe with a few bonuses and added trimmings. But after a while people are burnt out on that formula and want change. That's where reboots come in. It's kinda what's happening with Call of Duty right now. CoD4 was huge and people loved it. So they didn't change up the formula too much for a while because people really enjoyed it. But now it's seeing a slowdown and I think Ghosts was a pretty big sign that the franchise needs some change. I'd say expect a CoD reboot in a couple of years.

Nintendo is reaching that point soon. They have a dedicated fanbase but it's really shrinking. It's the people who bought the N64, then bought the Gamecube. The Wii was a bit of an outlier since it was a general audience console and while the normal fanbase returned (albeit diminished as every fanbase will be), it brought a lot of "casual" players to the scene. Those aren't carrying over to the Wii U and they're stuck relying on that diminishing fanbase from the Gamecube. They can't make another Wii and they're not getting their fanbase any larger. They're just falling off until they can't support a console any more on it.

And don't point to the 3DS because handhelds are a whole different ballgame.

 

[calmwaters]

*snip*
And don't point to the 3DS because handhelds are a whole different ballgame.

Handhelds, yes. The GameBoy/DS family; the PSP; etc.; great games on those. You know, the 3DS might be for the Wii U what the GameBoy Advance was for the N64/'Cube. I'm sure under the Pokemon/Zelda, there lie great games on the 3DS.

 

[grossaffe]

But it makes a ton a games need to support it or use it or strongarm me into buying an overpriced alternative controller to play some games effectively. Try playing Monster Hunter 3 or Xenoblade with a Wiimote/nunchuck and tell me it's fine. Albeit I didn't like either of these games but I tried them and it was annoying using the Wiimote.

I played Xenoblade with the Wiimote/nunchuck and preferred playing it that way. The controller layout allowed me to select my attack while on-the-move, while a classic controller uses the same thumb for movement and attack selection. And since you've acknowledged Xenoblade, I'd point to it as an example of a game with a mature story.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I played Xenoblade with the Wiimote/nunchuck and preferred playing it that way. The controller layout allowed me to select my attack while on-the-move, while a classic controller uses the same thumb for movement and attack selection. And since you've acknowledged Xenoblade, I'd point to it as an example of a game with a mature story.

From what I played it was a pretty awful and nonsense story. Once my ridiculous guessed plot twist came true I just shut the game off.

 

[grossaffe]

From what I played it was a pretty awful and nonsense story. Once my ridiculous guessed plot twist came true I just shut the game off.

I assume I know what plot-twist you speak of, and that did disappoint me personally as it did take away from what I thought was a great, ballsy move earlier on in the game. However, as the story unfolds, it really was integral to the unfolding of the rest of the story.
And you may not have liked what you had played from the story, but I hope you will agree that it comes down to personal taste and can accept that it is indeed mature.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I assume I know what plot-twist you speak of, and that did disappoint me personally as it did take away from what I thought was a great, ballsy move earlier on in the game. However, as the story unfolds, it really was integral to the unfolding of the rest of the story.
And you may not have liked what you had played from the story, but I hope you will agree that it comes down to personal taste and can accept that it is indeed mature.

It kinda just boiled down to the cheesy themes of friendship and it never really explored anything any deeper. You'd be hard pressed to find a JRPG with a mature storyline since most of them end up being terribly convoluted, cliched, and shallow.

 

[grossaffe]

It kinda just boiled down to the cheesy themes of friendship and it never really explored anything any deeper. You'd be hard pressed to find a JRPG with a mature storyline since most of them end up being terribly convoluted, cliched, and shallow.

If you had continued to play, you'd there's more explored than friendship. Yes, it is a common theme you see among the group of heroes, but you also see racism and genocide, fatalism and religion, death and revenge.

 

[Gahars]

As far as I'm concerned, a game is mature if the ESRB gives it an M rating. (It's the equivalent of an R in movies.) But of course no one cares about the ESRB anymore.

Ha ha, no. Ratings are based on the graphicness of the content, not its depth.

To use a film example, despite the ratings, Up (Rated G) is more mature and thoughtful than The Expendables (Rated R).

 

[calmwaters]

Ha ha, no. Ratings are based on the graphicness of the content, not its depth.

To use a film example, despite the ratings, Up (Rated G) is more mature and thoughtful than The Expendables (Rated R).

Graphicness. You mean there are porn videos which are more mature and thoughtful than others? Yeah, sure. But you definitely know more about that than I do.

 

[Gahars]

Graphicness. You mean there are porn videos which are more mature and thoughtful than others? Yeah, sure. But you definitely know more about that than I do.

Are you deliberately misconstruing every single thing people say, or do you really just not understand? And which is worse?

The presence of things that earn a game a Mature rating (gore, violence, nudity, etc.) don't mean a game is mature. Blood and breasts for blood and breasts' sake is pretty juvenile, really. A game doesn't have to have a big ol' M slapped on the front to tell a mature, thoughtful story.

 

[grossaffe]

Are you deliberately misconstruing every single thing people say, or do you really just not understand? And which is worse?

The presence of things that earn a game a Mature rating (gore, violence, nudity, etc.) don't mean a game is mature. Blood and breasts for blood and breasts' sake is pretty juvenile, really. A game doesn't have to have a big ol' M slapped on the front to tell a mature, thoughtful story.

First I started to see posts of Foxi4's that I agreed with, and now you? Well at least I'm still disagreeing with Tobias McFünke, so I know I haven't completely lost my sanity.

 

[calmwaters]

Are you deliberately misconstruing every single thing people say, or do you really just not understand? And which is worse?

The presence of things that earn a game a Mature rating (gore, violence, nudity, etc.) don't mean a game is mature. Blood and breasts for blood and breasts' sake is pretty juvenile, really. A game doesn't have to have a big ol' M slapped on the front to tell a mature, thoughtful story.

I misconstrued this time. I wasn't exactly myself when I replied; sorry. But yeah, blood and breasts just for its sake is pretty immature; but some people go for that stuff. That's what I have a problem with; honestly, there are things that are way more mature than that. But this isn't in the games you people play; they're not that shallow...

 

[zeello]

Mmmkay; what? This line of thinking that a games' maturity extends far beyond conventional ESRB ratings is the same kind that allows people to say there is sexism in the Zelda games and animal cruelty in Mario.

So.... what exactly are you mad about? That stuff is being discussed or analyzed? Or the fact people use the word 'mature' to mean its actual intended definition?

 

[calmwaters]

So.... what exactly are you mad about? That stuff is being discussed or analyzed? Or the fact people use the word 'mature' to mean its actual intended definition?

...Mad? Um, nothing. It's not worth my time to get mad, especially on this site. We got lots of trolls and Nintyfanatics on here. (But the mods try to keep the troll population in check.)

 

[fdias]

It's amazing that people really misunderstand the concept of mature as in evolved and intelligent game for ratings. As someone already said ratings are just a way of alerting parents that a certain game or movie has nudity, foul language, drug reference, sex etc. in no way does it mean that the R rated movie is an intelligent movie made for adults. Take Hangover for example. It's a funny movie and rated R but do you really need to be smart to understand it? Same goes for a lot of FPS games and survival zombie games out there (not saying all are dumb). I once heard a game reviewer saying that Nintendo fan base contrary to popular belief is not made of just kids and teens, in fact most preteens want a PS or Xbox and play a bloody M rated game so they can feel like adults. Most adults though would find funny some of these games and would rather remember the good old times playing Zelda.