PS1/2 99min CD-R

[Yuricorn]

Hello! Need some advice. Can I use 870mb СD-R to burn PS1 games?

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Hello! Need some advice. Can I use 870mb СD-R to burn PS1 games?

Please don't (unless testing/trying out things).

It would be wasted and the PS1 will have a hard time tracking the narrow track.

 

[linuxares]

I wouldn't recommend it. I would just try to pick up a pack of Verbatim so you know it just works

 

[AkikoKumagara]

@alexfree has an excellent guide based on real-world tests on which writable media is best (and also which are worst).
Might be a good starting place and save you some suffering.
https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/

 

[mrdude]

I depends on the size of the game data, Discs are read from the inside to the outside so it your game data is less than 870mb it will work OK. If you already have these discs as spare just mount the iso/img file and look at the data content to see how large it is, obvioulsy if it's larger than 870mb you'll need to used higher density discs. Also just as a point of note, you can use micro sd cards now with disc images rather than burning discs.





https://psio.cybdyn-systems.com.au/

 

[KleinesSinchen]

@alexfree has an excellent guide based on real-world tests on which writable media is best (and also which are worst).
Might be a good starting place and save you some suffering.
https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/

I'm too slow. Was about to post the same link now.

Console drives, especially old and worn ones, are often picky with media they read (and read for longer time without error, not just "game boots").
Banana Digital?? → Wonder what's inside? I'd love to see the ATIP data of those.

Very few different kinds of 99 or 100min CD-R have been made. Overall compatibility with standalone devices is mediocre at best. They had their niche in producing (S)VCD. DVD players tend to be good at reading them.

I depends on the size of the game data, Discs are read from the inside to the outside so it your game data is less than 870mb it will work OK. If you already have these discs as spare just mount the iso/img file and look at the data content to see how large it is, obvioulsy if it's larger than 870mb you'll need to used higher density discs.

870MB, sometimes wrongly labeled 900MB, are already the highest density and waaaay out of CD specifications. PlayStation 1 discs max out at 71min/≈625MB.

 

[Yuricorn]

Thanks for answers! I won't experiment.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2023

I'm too slow. Was about to post the same link now.

Console drives, especially old and worn ones, are often picky with media they read (and read for longer time without error, not just "game boots").
Banana Digital?? → Wonder what's inside? I'd love to see the ATIP data of those.

Very few different kinds of 99 or 100min CD-R have been made. Overall compatibility with standalone devices is mediocre at best. They had their niche in producing (S)VCD. DVD players tend to be good at reading them.


870MB, sometimes wrongly labeled 900MB, are already the highest density and waaaay out of CD specifications. PlayStation 1 discs max out at 71min/≈625MB.

I bought them a few years ago to burn dreamcast games. There are larger rips for dreamcast that fit on these CD-R.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2023

I depends on the size of the game data, Discs are read from the inside to the outside so it your game data is less than 870mb it will work OK. If you already have these discs as spare just mount the iso/img file and look at the data content to see how large it is, obvioulsy if it's larger than 870mb you'll need to used higher density discs. Also just as a point of note, you can use micro sd cards now with disc images rather than burning discs.





https://psio.cybdyn-systems.com.au/

I know about such things. I even have one in my Dreamcast. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about soldering.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

I bought them a few years ago to burn dreamcast games. There are larger rips for dreamcast that fit on these CD-R.

That makes sense. Worth mentioning that the native method of Dreamcast to increase capacity incorporates a greatly reduced pit size ("smaller font") rather than just tighter spiral. And for some reason DC does not really like reduced pit size burned by normal writers (opposed to pressed GDs)

I know about such things. I even have one in my Dreamcast. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about soldering.

PS1 is a special case regarding ODE. Somebody is working on a drop-in replacement like ODEs in other consoles. But the task is pretty complex since the drive unit is more or less the analog part only. All the processing, ECC/EDC at C1 and C2 level, EFM, descrambling is done on the motherboard. In order to "just connect a modern device in place of the drive" this modern device must do all the steps in reverse. Starting from an image file up to the analog signal… just to have the PS1 undo everything as if the drive was there delivering an analog signal from scanning the CD.

Current PS1 ODEs intercept at a different point and that requires modification on the board. I've rejected the idea at he moment looking at my shaking hands and the soldering skills needed.

 

[Ripto]

CD-R Capacity​

Over the years, CD-Rs have increased in capacity due to consumer demand, until they have marginally invalidated the Red book physical disc standard. We have gone from:

• 63minute/550MB
• 71minute/??MB (not sure, very rare).
• 74minute/650MB
• 80minute/700MB (marginal Red Book Standard violation)

There are higher capacities available, but they are completely breaking the Red Book Standard and have zero chance of working with the PSX so ignore them.

The PSX CD-ROM drive hardware has a seek table that was designed for 71 minute long discs. This seek table is a hardcoded optimization that is used to specify how the laser is to handle seeking to different parts of the discs. While all PSX CD-ROMs and PSX CD-R Master Discs were made this capacity, unfortunately there are no longer any CD-Rs being manufactured at this specification. Even back in 1995 on the SCEA BBS archives Sony did not recommend the then popular 74 minute CD-Rs for working with the dev console hardware. 71 minute media was what was recommended at that time because that is what the console is tuned for



https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#cd-r-capacity

https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#cd-r-capacity

Says here they will not work over 800mb

EDIT:
Wow as soon as I replied, it loaded everyone else's reply.
Sorry for being redundant. I will refresh next time.

 

[SylverReZ]

Hello! Need some advice. Can I use 870mb СD-R to burn PS1 games?

I wouldn't dare try using a 99min CD-R. Cheap media are prone to wearing out the laser super easily. Best to get a good brand CD-R such as Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden (aka CMC) cyanine dye.

 

[Ponlork]

I've always wondered if someone was to make a indie game for the PSX if it's possible to use 99min CDs. most PS1 games I've encountered are under 650mb. I've never seen any higher

 

[KleinesSinchen]

I've always wondered if someone was to make a indie game for the PSX if it's possible to use 99min CDs. most PS1 games I've encountered are under 650mb. I've never seen any higher

You might encounter a image bigger than 625MB – because PS1 games are recorded in Mode 2 Form 1 exposing the highest level of error correction with the user data even when not reading CDs in RAW mode. Multimedia data might be recorded in Mode 2 Form 2 missing the highest level of error correction to increase memory capacity.
Sectors in Mode 2 are not 2048 bytes, but 2336 bytes.

You should therefore use the audio CD equivalent in minutes to express size: PS1 games are limited to 71 minutes. Or you can use the number of sectors, where the maximum should be about 319500.

To test the PS1 it would be nice if somebody created a homebrew app doing tests like Nero Discspeed (only those applicable on PS1). Then provide test CDs with various sizes of track pitch and pits to see how the console reacts in terms of reliability and speed (seek times).