Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

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UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 

WeedZ

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Here, this might be on your reading level
https://www.educents.com/hooked-on-...MIj8iwkd-K2AIVXbnACh3tVAEAEAQYASABEgIrufD_BwE

My point is that people are getting too worked up over shit that "could" happen, but you "could" also just get shot walking in the street, or you "could" get in a car wreck, or you "could" just have a heart attack. It's a terrifying thought but people are getting worked up over possibilities like they're the reality they're living in, and it's irrational.
First stop trying to be condescending, you can barely make an arguement.

Secondly, I don't actively walk out into traffic or put myself in dangerous situations. I weigh risks with rewards like a normal person. So, the only thing I've wanted from you from the start.. what good comes from removing net neutrality that is worth the risks? That's the only thing I've been trying to get from you guys.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Should I time stamp how long it takes for someone to answer that question?
 
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First stop trying to be condescending, you can barely make an arguement.

Secondly, I don't actively walk out into traffic or put myself in dangerous situations. I weigh risks with rewards like a normal person. So, the only thing I've wanted from you from the start.. what good comes from removing net neutrality that is worth the risks? That's the only thing I've been trying to get from you guys.
The irony in someone accusing someone of being condescending while being condescending himself. You can go back and read the posts and see that net neutrality as a concept is not being repealed, moreso the Title II order and it's regulations. You can't really burst into a thread that's been full of the discussion and go "hurrrrr can someone spoon feed me? I can't read!"

https://www.babycenter.com/0_starter-library-for-newborns-to-6-month-olds_6606.bc
Maybe these are for someone of your level of reading comprehension.
 
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WeedZ

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The irony in someone accusing someone of being condescending while being condescending himself. You can go back and read the posts and see that net neutrality as a concept is not being repealed, moreso the Title II order and it's regulations. You can't really burst into a thread that's been full of the discussion and go "hurrrrr can someone spoon feed me? I can't read!"

https://www.babycenter.com/0_starter-library-for-newborns-to-6-month-olds_6606.bc
Maybe these are for someone of your level of reading comprehension.
You still didn't answer my question. Nor did anyone else in this thread, I did read it which is why I posted. And we've come full circle to my first post..
There are two types of people in this thread. People that care about net neutrality and are complaining about it, and people that don't care about net neutrality either way and hate people that care about stuff. Honestly, if you have no reason (legitimate or otherwise) to see net neutrality gone then you need to leave people alone and gtfo. Youre just being an asshole and we have enough of those.
 
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You still didn't answer my question. Nor did anyone else in this thread, I did read it which is why I posted. And we've come full circle to my first post..
I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that you've managed to read 40+ pages while still bitching the whole time that no one has answered your question. I also find it interesting how you only really became active in the thread once you saw liberals getting shat on.

I think I can see what's going on here ;)
 
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WeedZ

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I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that you've managed to read 40+ pages while still bitching the whole time that no one has answered your question. I also find it interesting how you only really became active in the thread once you saw liberals getting shat on.

I think I can see what's going on here ;)
Yeah, I got annoyed with people being shitty without any good reason. I can quote my first post again if you wanna give it another read.
 
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Yeah, I got annoyed with people being shitty without any good reason. I can quote my first post again if you wanna give it another read.
Strange coming from the man whose activity only spiked when liberals were mentioned negatively (despite there being fair reasons to do so as liberal media outlets such as Gizmodo have been hilariously disingenuous about this whole thing) and yet suddenly is trying to pretend he's the arbiter of morality in the thread.

Very strange.
upload_2017-12-14_18-36-24.png
 
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WeedZ

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Strange coming from the man whose activity only spiked when liberals were mentioned negatively (despite there being fair reasons to do so as liberal media outlets such as Gizmodo have been hilariously disingenuous about this whole thing) and yet suddenly is trying to pretend he's the arbiter of morality in the thread.

Very strange.
View attachment 108377
I would have been annoyed either way. As I said, the fact only conservatives are doing it is either coincidence or says something about conservatives. But you're deflecting again so I'm going to lurk until my question is answered. Then I'm going to have a real debate. Good day
 
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Kingy

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Strange coming from the man whose activity only spiked when liberals were mentioned negatively (despite there being fair reasons to do so as liberal media outlets such as Gizmodo have been hilariously disingenuous about this whole thing) and yet suddenly is trying to pretend he's the arbiter of morality in the thread.

Very strange.
View attachment 108377
It's funny how much you are trying to avoid being proven wrong. It's just completely silly to see how low you go!
 
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It's funny how much you are trying to avoid being proven wrong. It's just completely silly to see how low you go!
Well let's see here:
Gizmodo, notoriously liberal site owned by Gawker, hilariously notorious for liberally slanted news reports
https://gizmodo.com/leaked-video-shows-fcc-chair-ajit-pai-roasting-himself-1821134881
https://gizmodo.com/heres-the-fccs-plan-to-kill-net-neutrality-1820683360
https://gizmodo.com/fcc-chairman-is-laughing-at-americans-who-dont-want-to-1795193063

Shown here spreading intentional lies about how the FCC is "killing net neutrality" or reporting just plain nonsense about how the FCC chairman just making shitty bants with internet people somehow equates to him openly "laughing at people who don't want the internet killed"

Yet anyone calling out stuff like this is just a conservative.
upload_2017-12-14_18-42-38.png


Now even more strange is how WeedZ's basically absent from the thread entirely until the moment he perceives an attack on the liberals has been made and must carry their honor on his shoulders, despite multiple people -- myself included -- mentioning that this isn't about the personal politics of the website reporting it.

I can see why people would mention liberals negatively when referring to liberal sites, but the ultimate point here is the personal politics of people has jack shit to do with this sort of thing. You could be a liberal like myself and support the bill, or you could be a conservative and support the bill. It's irrelevant what your political stance is in this, which is why I specifically call out Weed for only giving a shit the moment liberals are getting bantered around.

So yeah mate you can both keep trying but until you've made an attempt to read the thread, you're not really part of the discussion.
 
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Seriously I stress again the politics in the debate of net neutrality are basically irrelevant. This isn't a black and white issue like people make it out to be and that sort of partisan "us vs them" nonsense is why this debate is so royally fucked.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh that's cute, 22 states, including California, are gonna sue the FCC. Good luck.
This is going to be a hilarious shitshow
 

the_randomizer

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Seriously I stress again the politics in the debate of net neutrality are basically irrelevant. This isn't a black and white issue like people make it out to be and that sort of partisan "us vs them" nonsense is why this debate is so royally fucked.

And I feel like figuratively throwing up at all the sheer virulent toxicity and animosity that's going on right now. We're better than this.:hateit:
 

WeedZ

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Well let's see here:
Gizmodo, notoriously liberal site owned by Gawker, hilariously notorious for liberally slanted news reports
https://gizmodo.com/leaked-video-shows-fcc-chair-ajit-pai-roasting-himself-1821134881
https://gizmodo.com/heres-the-fccs-plan-to-kill-net-neutrality-1820683360
https://gizmodo.com/fcc-chairman-is-laughing-at-americans-who-dont-want-to-1795193063

Shown here spreading intentional lies about how the FCC is "killing net neutrality" or reporting just plain nonsense about how the FCC chairman just making shitty bants with internet people somehow equates to him openly "laughing at people who don't want the internet killed"

Yet anyone calling out stuff like this is just a conservative.
View attachment 108378

Now even more strange is how WeedZ's basically absent from the thread entirely until the moment he perceives an attack on the liberals has been made and must carry their honor on his shoulders, despite multiple people -- myself included -- mentioning that this isn't about the personal politics of the website reporting it.

I can see why people would mention liberals negatively when referring to liberal sites, but the ultimate point here is the personal politics of people has jack shit to do with this sort of thing. You could be a liberal like myself and support the bill, or you could be a conservative and support the bill. It's irrelevant what your political stance is in this, which is why I specifically call out Weed for only giving a shit the moment liberals are getting bantered around.

So yeah mate you can both keep trying but until you've made an attempt to read the thread, you're not really part of the discussion.
Don't try to paint me into a corner. I'm not a liberal. And if my posting was politically motivated, I'd have posted a long time ago. Im not a member of gizmodo or whatever. I'm a member of gbatemp. I care about my experience here. You're just being ridiculous now. Just admit you're an asshole and move on.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I like when I argue with someone and instead of admitting they're wrong, they're suddenly on "my side" of the arguement. I'm the one that said political affiliation has nothing to do with this lol
 
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Costello

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Got any names? Otherwise this is basically anecdotal.
Here is one example of many, from 2014
http://www.numerama.com/magazine/28...forfait-red-de-sfr-avec-youtube-illimite.html
This operator sold a mobile internet plan with "unlimited Youtube access" and 5 GB for the rest of the internet.
So basically it's okay to visit one particular site as much as you want, but you have to restrain yourself from visiting every other.
And this is just one example, I've seen much worse.
 

ThisIsDaAccount

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All right. Since there seems to be a fair amount of people against net neutrality, let's play a game.

Let's say that I'm Comcast, and I have a few sites I want to promote ahead of others (I.E. Hulu instead of Netflix, PSN instead of XBox Live). Who's gonna stop me from doing so now?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

No one's gonna take on Comcast?
 

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I have actually downloaded over 1TB worth of PS3 games over the past month.

You downloaded 1TB over the past month on your phone?

That Portugal example, besides being misleading, is also mobile only.

As for the reasoning behind the Portuguese mobile data plan packages, the way I understand it is. let's say for example you're paying $40 a month for a package that gives you 8GB. And if it weren't for what you do on Facebook, you could get by on 8GB. But with your Facebook usage included, you're always between 10-12GB total. But you don't want to pay the extra $20 cost of jumping to the 16GB tier. So in that case, you can pay the $8 extra for the Facebook extended data, so you can get 4GB of Facebook data, plus your usual 8GB (which can also include Facebook). The $48 total you're now spending isn't as expensive as the $60 cost of the 16GB package. Some customers will go for the 16GB package anyway, but you want to save $12. It's an option, that's it. And it's mobile only. And this is the one main example that's been getting posted up the last couple days of what a horror show is awaiting us because regulations that have only been in place for 2 years got repealed.

Is there anything in the law that would prevent ISP's from going back to the old AOL pay-by-the-hour model? In the 90's lots of Americans, probably most Americans, used dialup and paid $$$ hourly for the privilege. These regulations that just got repealed weren't preventing a return to that sales model. As far as I know, it's still legal. So why don't ISP's go back to that??
 
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Here is one example of many, from 2014
http://www.numerama.com/magazine/28...forfait-red-de-sfr-avec-youtube-illimite.html
This operator sold a mobile internet plan with "unlimited Youtube access" and 5 GB for the rest of the internet.
So basically it's okay to visit one particular site as much as you want, but you have to restrain yourself from visiting every other.
And this is just one example, I've seen much worse.
We're talking about mobile internet here vs home internet. Not to mention this kind of stuff makes sense, just as with the Telco stuff people have posted, you can purchase the ability to have your youtube access not count towards your data limit. As someone who used youtube a lot for lectures, research, boredom, and so on, that's a deal I'd take personally. That way, you can get the lowest data cap, but circumvent it with the youtube addon so that you don't spend any more money than you have to on data you know you aren't going to use. Better than exceeding your cap with youtube.

That said however, mobile internet plans aren't really the same as home internet plans. You might get a dongle or something but that's not really used for anything besides maybe email and for one person, that's about the closest I can think of mobile internet being used as a home internet thing. So not only is it not fair nor accurate to compare the two, but the example given isn't even that bad. If this is the way the internet is going to be, I totally welcome that shit. I'm fine with data caps if I can personally purchase the ability for shit I know I use to not contribute to it, and not purchase shit I know I'll never touch.
 
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Hanafuda

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Here is one example of many, from 2014
http://www.numerama.com/magazine/28...forfait-red-de-sfr-avec-youtube-illimite.html
This operator sold a mobile internet plan with "unlimited Youtube access" and 5 GB for the rest of the internet.
So basically it's okay to visit one particular site as much as you want, but you have to restrain yourself from visiting every other.
And this is just one example, I've seen much worse.

And what's wrong with this? The customer doesn't have to buy it, and if they do, it's just a mobile plan with data restrictions. What mobile plan doesn't have data restrictions? If that plan (5GB plus unlimited YT) suits a customer's needs better than (for example) a 12GB general plan at twice the cost, then it's a good product for that consumer. Some people are served better by something like this.
 

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