Homebrew Is Possible To Make Playstation 1 Emulator On 3DS?

Seraphiel · Jan 22, 2015

Kelton2 said:
I want that too but more to run old windows versions, I used to be (long story) a old os geek.

I have a strong dislike for the old windows OS but hey, anyone can like and do w/e they want with emulators

.

But now that I think about old windows times i can't help but imagine how awesome it will be to have Atomic Bomberman on 3ds and even better (a dream i know) with wifi function!.

the_randomizer · Jan 22, 2015

Rinnegatamante said:
A Nintendo64 is more simple to emulate if compared to PSX.
Lets go to see DaedalusX64 emulator for PSP what can do with N64 roms.

3DS has 128 MB RAM.
PSP has 64 MB RAM (Talking about 2000/3000/4000/5000/N1000/E1000 models)
3DS has a 266 MHZ DualCore CPU
PSP has a 333 MHZ DualCore CPU
ePSXe Emulator require at least a 200 MHZ CPU (Recommended a 1 GHZ CPU) and 256 MB RAM (Recommended 512 MB RAM)

Best results for NON NATIVE PSX emulation (so i discard POPS) on PSP is this:

So 3DS will never load PSX games at full speed.
(Maybe a good framerate for only a part of titles like DaedalusX64 can be done but absolutely not with ninjhax)

If you want to play full speed PSX games while you're not at home just buy a PSP and use NATIVE emulation through POPS.

(A PSP at this time is very cheap)

Personally, i LOVE PSP N1000 (PSP GO). It's the first (and only) REAL handheld console thanks to its sizes.

More MHz != more speed, that's called the megahertz myth, not to mention the PSP and 3DS have completely different CPU architectures, ARM vs. MIPS, apples to oranges. ePSXe isn't very portable code-wise, PCSX-R is far easier to port to other systems. The fact the PSP has 333 MHz doesn't mean it's faster than the 3DS 266 MHz.

Rinnegatamante · Jan 22, 2015

the_randomizer said:
More MHz != more speed, that's called the megahertz myth, not to mention the PSP and 3DS have completely different CPU architectures, ARM vs. MIPS, apples to oranges. ePSXe isn't very portable code-wise, PCSX-R is far easier to port to other systems. The fact the PSP has 333 MHz doesn't mean it's faster than the 3DS 266 MHz.

POPS run full speed only cause this.

the_randomizer · Jan 22, 2015

Rinnegatamante said:
POPS run full speed only cause this.

Right, but that doesn't mean people can't or shouldn't try/attempt to make PSX emulation on the 3DS.

Rinnegatamante · Jan 22, 2015

the_randomizer said:
Right, but that doesn't mean people can't or shouldn't try/attempt to make PSX emulation on the 3DS.

I said it's not technically possible to get full speed not that it's impossible to emulate.
If you want to see results like DaedalusX64 (in the best setting) so you can wait for a Kernel exploit and a proper CFW with a proper SDK (like PSPSDK).
Actually libctru doesn't provide a full access to 3DS functionnalities, ninjhax doesn't provide access to full service/full hardware and you have only Usermode access.

WeedZ · Jan 22, 2015

I thought PSP was 222-333 single core.

the_randomizer · Jan 22, 2015

WeedZ1985 said:
I thought PSP was 222-333 single core.

It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable single core CPU, set to 222 MHz by default.

PSP CPU Chip:

Sony CXD2962GG CPU
Based on MIPS R4000 32-bit Core
90 nm Semiconductor CMOS Process
1-333 MHz (set at 222 MHz by default) @ 1.2 V
16 kB Instruction Cache / 16 kB Data Cache
SiP:
32 MB eDRAM @ 2.6 Gbit/s
Embedded FPU
Embedded Vector FPU @ 3.2 GFLOPS
Embedded Graphics Core:
1-166 MHz (set at 111 MHz by default) @ 1.2 V
256-bit Bus at 5.3 Gbit/s
2 MB eDRAM (VRAM)
3D Curved Surface and 3D Polygon
Compressed Textures
Hardware Clipping, Morphing, Bone(8)
Hardware Tessellator Unit, 4 passes per cycle
Bézier surface, Bézier curve and B-Spline (NURBS)
4×4, 16×16, 64×64 Subdivision
Rendering Engine and Surface Engine
Pixel Fill Rate: 600 Megapixels/s
Up to 33 Million Polygon/s (with Transform and Lighting)
24-bit Full Color: RGBA
128-bit Bus at 2.6 Gbit/s
3D-CG Extended Instruction Set

WeedZ · Jan 22, 2015

An earlier post said it was dualcore. Didn't sound right.

Joe88 · Jan 22, 2015

Also I dont believe any homebrew takes advantage of the extra 32MB ram the slim has

daxtsu · Jan 22, 2015

Joe88 said:
Also I dont believe any homebrew takes advantage of the extra 32MB ram the slim has

There are several.

-Zelda: Navi's Quest (port of a PC game) http://wololo.net/talk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39359
-The quake ports can use 64MB iirc.
-CPS emulators, iirc.
-Basilisk II.

Rinnegatamante · Jan 22, 2015

WeedZ1985 said:
An earlier post said it was dualcore. Didn't sound right.

From italian page of Wikipedia:

Central Processing Unit
- Sistema Dual Processor a 128-Bit
- Processore principale Allegrex basato sull'architettura MIPS R4000 a 32-bit, con frequenza variabile da 1 a 333 MHz (Default: 222 MHz)[8]
- Coprocessore matematico Media Engine CXD5026-203GG con frequenza variabile da 1 a 333 MHz (Default: 222 MHz)

DiscostewSM · Jan 22, 2015

A PS1 emulator on the 3DS may be possible if dynarec is used. As far as graphics are concerned, it may actually be easier on the 3DS GPU to render PS1 games than it is to render SNES games. With hardware rendering with BlargSNES, each 8x8 pixel tile is rendered using 2 polygons. Up to 33x29 tiles can be visible onscreen per layer. While Mode 0 has up to 4 layers, the most widely used Mode is Mode 1, which has 3 layers (though most do not fill the entire layers with tiles, as that would obscure the layers most of the time). Many games can utilize scanline alterations to the layers (likely 1 in most cases when this happens), so multiply that by up to 224. Then if the game runs at 60fps, multiply the count by 60. When it comes down to it, it's drawing a lot of polygons, and all practically textured. That's not including sprites.

Now, taking into account the polycount given by Sony regarding what the PS1 can output. Specs suggest around 180k textured polygons per second (and that's about how many Vagrant Story does, and I assume that's one of the more heavy polygon titles on the system). That's roughly 3k per frame if done at 60fps. A single SNES layer is already over half that amount. Polygons aside, there is one problem. Most of the time, textures are paletted, which just like it does with BlargSNES, the textures would have to be converted. Unlike the SNES, however, the textures aren't all fixed 8x8 pixels. They are variable, incremental by the power of 2. If bumpmapping and using the 3DS GPU's reflection samplers can be used (like it is being theorized with BlargSNES), then it won't be as much of a problem. The unfortunate thing about that is that the palette size is far greater than 256 actual colors, which the sampler is limited to. Sure, textures can only be up to 8-bit paletted 256 colors), but there can dozens of those, or even 100s of 4-bit palettes, or even a mix, because palette sets don't require much space in the PS1's 1MB of VRAM even after most of it is filled with textures and the display buffers.

daxtsu · Jan 22, 2015

The PSP's Media Engine isn't really something easily used, so I believe that's why most people refer to the PSP as a single-core machine. Official game devs never used it in games (except for built-in Sony libs for decoding different media formats like music/videos). Even homebrew programs that use it don't see a huge benefit AFAIK (Daedalus and Snes9x are the only ones to use it, right?).

Joe88 · Jan 22, 2015

Rinnegatamante said:
From italian page of Wikipedia:

Central Processing Unit

Sistema Dual Processor a 128-Bit

Processore principale Allegrex basato sull'architettura MIPS R4000 a 32-bit, con frequenza variabile da 1 a 333 MHz (Default: 222 MHz)[8]

Coprocessore matematico Media Engine CXD5026-203GG con frequenza variabile da 1 a 333 MHz (Default: 222 MHz)

http://forums.daedalusx64.com/viewtopic.php?p=47422&sid=4719eead9cd018f152840345f5e9ba6f#p47422

Foxi4 · Jan 22, 2015

the_randomizer said:
Snes emulation on the PSP isn't that great since the version of Snes9x it uses has really bad DSP emulation code. Snes emulation on 3DS already has far superior audio, much better SPC emulation. N64 emulation on the PSP is also quite sub par and was only a proof of concept. PSX emulation however, is gonna be superior since the console has the advantage due to the MIPS architecture (PSX and PSP both have MIPS).

Have you considered the fact that it might be better because there's professional coders with full access to SNES documentation working on it, not a bunch of amateurs? As it stands today, the PSP is paradoxically a better PS1 emulation machine purely because it's using backwards compatible hardware - the 3DS does not. While I expect an emulator to pop up, I don't expect it to be anywhere near full speed on complex games that work well on the PSP.

Rinnegatamante · Jan 22, 2015

Joe88 said:
http://forums.daedalusx64.com/viewtopic.php?p=47422&sid=4719eead9cd018f152840345f5e9ba6f#p47422

Talking about PSX, do you know that Media Engine does all the works for audio emulation?
On PSVITA for example, PSPEMU doesn't use Media Engine so if you try to use a CF HEN (like ARK or TN-V) your converted PSX title don't have sound support (ARK) or have a framedrop caused by audio emulation which is done by a porting of a ePSXe plugin (PeOPS).

the_randomizer · Jan 22, 2015

Foxi4 said:
Have you considered the fact that it might be better because there's professional coders with full access to SNES documentation working on it, not a bunch of amateurs? As it stands today, the PSP is paradoxically a better PS1 emulation machine purely because it's using backwards compatible hardware - the 3DS does not. While I expect an emulator to pop up, I don't expect it to be anywhere near full speed on complex games that work well on the PSP.

Leaving PSX emulation aside, the DSP code in Snes9x 1.43, which the PSP port is based off of, it outdated and horrendous when it comes to accuracy. The current DSP code in BlargSnes is far superior and sounds better than most portable Snes9x DSP code is concerned. This is fact, Snes9x 1.43 DSP is utter garbage and at the time of writing, no one has attempted to port Snes9x 1.52 audio code for the PSP.

tbb043 · Jan 22, 2015

HBK said:
I'd just use a PSP tbh. And you can play GBA, SNES, N64, etc...it's the perfect emulation machine.

It's a good emulation machine, but far from perfect. SNES is way off.

For PSX it can't be beat, but that's because it was designed to play PSX games.

Foxi4 · Jan 22, 2015

the_randomizer said:
Leaving PSX emulation aside, the DSP code in Snes9x 1.43, which the PSP port is based off of, it outdated and horrendous when it comes to accuracy. The current DSP code in BlargSnes is far superior and sounds better than most portable Snes9x DSP code is concerned. This is fact, Snes9x 1.43 DSP is utter garbage and at the time of writing, no one has attempted to port Snes9x 1.52 audio code for the PSP.

I know it's outdated, that wasn't my point. My point was that if you hire a bunch of professionals, give them documentation and have them work on an emulator for a few specific games only, they sure will do it - look at the PS3 and PS2 Classics and compare that to PS2 emulation on PC - it's remarkable. This is not the case with homebrew dev where you have a few coders with good intentions porting pre-existing code.

Apache Thunder · Jan 22, 2015

Why are threads like this allowed to exist? It's been debated over and over. There are some things that just won't happen on the 3DS. We are beating a dead horse on this one.

Homebrew Is Possible To Make Playstation 1 Emulator On 3DS?

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