Thanks to the new laws in Belgium, which have classified certain instances of lootboxes and microtransactions as "gambling", 2K Games and Blizzard have been forced to remove these from their games. Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, and NBA 2K have been affected, for the region of Belgium, due to the aforementioned legal decision. Both companies maintain that they do not agree with the ruling, but that they must forcefully comply. Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch no longer allow players to purchase lootboxes, while NBA 2K18 has partially removed MyTeam Packs, their form of lootboxes, though ingame currency can still be used to obtain them.

This follows similar changes made in games like CS:GO and FIFA 18 having to disable lootboxes for Belgian players. While not being considered as illegal, Forza Motorsport 7 and Shadow of War voluntarily removed their microtransactions worldwide as well.

Source: Battle.net

In April 2018, the Belgian Gaming Commission published a report that was endorsed by the Belgian Ministry of Justice in which they concluded that paid loot boxes in Overwatchare considered gambling under local law. While we at Blizzard were surprised by this conclusion and do not share the same opinion, we have decided to comply with their interpretation of Belgian law. As a result, we have no choice but to implement measures that will prevent Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm players located in Belgium from purchasing in-game loot boxes and loot chests with real money and gems.

 

[kumikochan]

I seriously don't get this, why as an adult am I not allowed to use my own earned damn money to buy what I want because some dumbass kids got hold of their parents credit cards.

Because you're sharing it with kids. That would be the same as watching porn in the neighbourhood of kids since you're an adult you are allowed to ? It is a silly comparison but it's basically the same. If they want it to be legal in Belgium then they have to sell it as an 18+ game seeing gambling is legal from the age of 18 here. I doubt they would do that and even like to do that

 

[Taleweaver]

As much as I applaud it, there is a caveat: we've got an election coming up in about 1.5 months. Passing this sort of things is most likely more due to the timing ("we make popular laws! btw, plzvoteforus ") than Koen Geens (our minister of justice) actually caring about the topic.

That's sad. The nanny state steps in once again to protect people from themselves. Everyone's clapping and the market just got a little bit less free.

The question is always whether lootboxes are a form of gambling or not. It is concluded that they are, and therefore should comply to gambling laws. Lootboxes aren't forbidden per se (nor gambling, for what it's worth)...it's just that blizzard decided it wasn't worth the effort (genuinely being able to prove there are no minors participating is probably the main hurdle) and rather ditched the whole thing.

 

[Foxi4]

As much as I applaud it, there is a caveat: we've got an election coming up in about 1.5 months. Passing this sort of things is most likely more due to the timing ("we make popular laws! btw, plzvoteforus ") than Koen Geens (our minister of justice) actually caring about the topic.

The question is always whether lootboxes are a form of gambling or not. It is concluded that they are, and therefore should comply to gambling laws. Lootboxes aren't forbidden per se (nor gambling, for what it's worth)...it's just that blizzard decided it wasn't worth the effort (genuinely being able to prove there are no minors participating is probably the main hurdle) and rather ditched the whole thing.

It's been concluded that people are not allowed to spend their money as they please, including foolishly.

 

[kumikochan]

It's been concluded that people are not allowed to spend their money as they please, including foolishly.

Like I already stated, in a game that isn't 18+ ofcourse since you share that online space with kids and kids can pick it up. If they want you to spend your money on it then they should makes those games 18+ but i'm sure they won't seeing that will generate less sales. Belgium already gave out a statement regarding that, that it is perfectly legal to gamble from the age of 18 and if they want to have lootboxes in game that you can buy with a form a currency that the game needs to be +18. Lootboxes itself don't have to be removed but the currency to buy lootboxes have to because of the +18 gambling law

 

[Izual Urashima]

My sides are in orbit, despite it not changing anything. They're basically saying that the Belgian Ministry of Justice's interpretation of Belgian law is wrong, after all.

The thing is, this law should be applied on a bigger scale for it to have an impact on games. Until then, devs will always take the easy way out by blocking lootboxes on select countries instead of taking the hard way out by making lootboxes less predatory and cancerous.

Still, nice move, my country.

 

[Foxi4]

Like I already stated, in a game that isn't 18+ ofcourse since you share that online space with kids and kids can pick it up. If they want you to spend your money on it then they should makes those games 18+ but i'm sure they won't seeing that will generate less sales. Belgium already gave out a statement regarding that, that it is perfectly legal to gamble from the age of 18 and if they want to have lootboxes in game that you can buy with a form a currency that the game needs to be +18. Lootboxes itself don't have to be removed but the currency to buy lootboxes have to because of the +18 gambling law

And that's the crux of the issue - it's not gambling, nor does it bear any identifying features of gambling, it merely features an element of randomness. The legal decision is sad and I thoroughly disagree with it, but I've talked about it enough in other threads to grow sick of it.

 

[LittleFlame]

Because you're sharing it with kids. That would be the same as watching porn in the neighbourhood of kids since you're an adult you are allowed to ? It is a silly comparison but it's basically the same. If they want it to be legal in Belgium then they have to sell it as an 18+ game seeing gambling is legal from the age of 18 here. I doubt they would do that and even like to do that

okay so here's my problem with that. because kids can't do it I can't do it?
hell an age rating never stopped kids from buying cod anyway and you know what
I like lootboxes actually, specifically the ones in OW where it's fair enough you get'em for just playing the damn game and if you really want something you CAN always just buy the skin from real/in game currency which you rack up pretty quick.

I also liked CSGO Weapon skins, a nice personal touch to your own loadout but I can't even get those anymore cuz the dutch government has banned trading csgo/dota2 items in fact making the problem WORSE cuz now the only way you can get new skins is THROUGH the lootboxes

 

[kumikochan]

And that's the crux of the issue - it's not gambling, nor does it bear any identifying features of gambling, it merely features an element of randomness. The legal decision is sad and I thoroughly disagree with it, but I've talked about it enough in other threads to grow sick of it.

It is, if it wasn't then the Belgian government wouldn't have had this system in place. Just because it's not gambling according to you doesn't automatically not make it gambling. Through legal means in Belgium it has been concluded that it is gambling. If you don't agree with that then I advise you to go against the Belgian government in court showing that it is not gambling

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okay so here's my problem with that. because kids can't do it I can't do it?
hell an age rating never stopped kids from buying cod anyway and you know what
I like lootboxes actually, specifically the ones in OW where it's fair enough you get'em for just playing the damn game and if you really want something you CAN always just buy the skin from real/in game currency which you rack up pretty quick.

I also liked CSGO Weapon skins, a nice personal touch to your own loadout but I can't even get those anymore cuz the dutch government has banned trading csgo/dota2 items in fact making the problem WORSE cuz now the only way you can get new skins is THROUGH the lootboxes

Ofcourse it doesn't stop kids from buying it but legally they would be fine and nobody could do anything against it.

 

[GensokyoIceFairy]

lmao what a stupid post, nuking this message's content lol

 

[LittleFlame]

In my opinion this is an issue of shitty parenting and instead of reflecting on themselves and working on it they once again just "Blame the media" as it's always been.

 

[kumikochan]

well thats good enough, capitalism is gonna get overthrown hopefully

well for me it doesn't need to be overthrown. It just needs to be balanced out more with consumer protection laws. A social democracy like is in place in Europe protects the consumer a lot more wich is not the be confused with democratic socialism since those are not the same but everybody always assume they are the same but that is a topic for another thread

 

[Foxi4]

It is, if it wasn't then the Belgian government wouldn't have had this system in place. Just because it's not gambling according to you doesn't automatically not make it gambling. Through legal means in Belgium it has been concluded that it is gambling. If you don't agree with that then I advise you to go against the Belgian government in court showing that it is not gambling

No, the government ruled that it is - that doesn't make it so. The UK government ruled that air rifles are firearms, which they most certainly are not, for the purposes of gun control legislation as they were deemed dangerous enough to be a restricted good. The government is not a magical body of sages that make no mistakes, it can and should be criticised. Lootboxes are not a form of gambling.

 

[kumikochan]

No, the government ruled that it is - that doesn't make it so. The UK government ruled that air rifles are firearms which they most certainly are not for the purposes of gun control legislation as they were deemed dangerous enough to be a restricted good. The government is not a magical body of sages that make no mistakes, it can and should be criticised. Lootboxes are not a form of gambling.

Not only the UK but almost every country in Europe deemed air rifles to be guns and when transported have to be in a locked case inside your car. I go airsofting a lot. And the government concluded and also the ministery of gambling did so in Belgium it is and nothing you're gonna say is gonna change that unless you challenge them through legal means. Lootboxes are a form of gambling in Belgium because it has been concluded through legal means that it is

 

[LittleFlame]

Not only the UK but almost every country in Europe deemed air rifles to be guns and when transported have to be in a locked case inside your car. I go airsofting a lot. And the government concluded and also the ministery of gambling did so in Belgium it is and nothing you're gonna say is gonna change that unless you challenge them through legal means. Lootboxes are a form of gambling in Belgium because it has been concluded through legal means that it is

I don't think anyone here has the means to actually challenge an entire government body

 

[Foxi4]

Not only the UK but almost every country in Europe deemed air rifles to be guns and when transported have to be in a locked case inside your car. I go airsofting a lot. And the government concluded and also the ministery of gambling did so in Belgium it is and nothing you're gonna say is gonna change that unless you challenge them through legal means

An air rifle is, by definition, not a firearm. A firearm is a portable barrelled ranged weapon that discharges projectiles via combustion of propellant inside a cartridge. Air rifles are *treated* as firearms for the purposes of gun regulation, but they are not firearms.

 

[kumikochan]

An air rifle is, by definition, not a firearm. A firearm is a portable barrelled ranged weapon that discharges projectiles via combustion of propellant inside a cartridge. Air rifles are *treated* as firearms for the purposes of gun regulation, but they are not firearms.

It is in most European countries. Again if you want to challenge that then be free to do so through legal means. At the moment it is considered that and nothing what you think is gonna change that since it has been concluded through legal means that it is. It's as simple as that

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I don't think anyone here has the means to actually challenge an entire government body

Actually it is quite an easy thing to do in Belgium since you don't have to pay massive amounts to start a case. I actually started a few cases against the government or a part of it through legal means and I always won. Starting a case in Belgium costs around 25 - 50 euro plus I never ever had to pay for my lawyer since there are laws in place that says that make it so. I think it's the same in the Netherlands tho

 

[Foxi4]

It is in most European countries. Again if you want to challenge that then be free to do so through legal means. At the moment it is considered that and nothing what you think is gonna change that since it has been concluded through legal means that it is. It's as simple as that

I'm not challenging anything, sit down and read the post slowly. An air gun is not a firearm as it does not have the mechanical properties of a firearm. It is *treated* as a firearm in legal process because it's dangerous provided it reaches a certain strength in joules. A lootbox system is not gambling as it does not feature the properties of gambling, however your government has chosen to treat it *as if it was gambling* because it found the system unsuitable for minors. This is what we call an "analogy". It is my argument that it is not gambling and your government made a mistake which infringes upon consumer rights. That is all.

 

[kumikochan]

I'm not challenging anything, sit down and read the post slowly. An air gun is not a firearm as it does not have the mechanical properties of a firearm. It is *treated* as a firearm in legal process because it's dangerous provided it reaches a certain strength in joules. A lootbox system is not gambling as it does not feature the properties of gambling, however your government has chosen to treat it *as if it was gambling* because it found the system unsuitable for minors. This is what we call an "analogy". It is my argument that it is not gambling and your government made a mistake which infringes upon consumer rights. That is all.

Most countries do consider them firearms. Australian law says it's a firearm, France you need to have a hunting license or a club shooting license for airsoft guns of 20 joules and more, Germany you need to have a carrying permit to even transport it, Sweden airsoft guns are deemed a firearm and a firearm license is needed, Singapore airguns are considered firearms and a license is needed, in the Uk airsoft guns that shoot 8.1 joule are considered dangerous firearms and a permit is needed, and in almost every European country exceeding 7 joules it is considered a firearm. There are plenty more but just named a few to show you

 

[Taleweaver]

No, the government ruled that it is - that doesn't make it so.

That's true. Our government ruled that it's a form of gambling (erm...you missed the part where it cost money in your earlier post). Whether people agree with that or not is...well...mostly irrelevant. It just so happens that many people here (including me) agree with it.

I'm not going into debate on how other countries treat other situations. I'll leave that to people who care about those issues.

 

[Foxi4]

Most countries do consider them firearms. Australian law says it's a firearm, France you need to have a hunting license or a club shooting license for airsoft guns of 20 joules and more, Germany you need to have a carrying permit to even transport it, Sweden airsoft guns are deemed a firearm and a firearm license is needed, Singapore airguns are considered firearms and a license is needed, in the Uk airsoft guns that shoot 8.1 joule are considered dangerous firearms and a permit is needed, and in almost every European country exceeding 7 joules it is considered a firearm. There are plenty more but just named a few to show you

This conversation is rapidly becoming too silly for me to partake in. I explained quite thoroughly what a firearm is and I also explained why certain countries choose to treat them as firearms to simplify legislation. You can legally define a dog to be a cat, but that doesn't make it so. Such legal shortcuts are used worldwide to make things easier for everyone - some are good, some are bad. The primary difference between an air gun and a firearm is that an air gun is a pneumatic device that uses compressed air or other gasses to propel a projectile whereas a firearm is a barrelled weapon which discharges exothermic cartridges to do the same thing. That is the definition of the two mechanisms. You can legislate until you're blue in the face and you won't change that. That's neither here nor there though, I was using a simple example of a similar legal equivalence that doesn't translate into reality to demonstrate a point.