British General Election 2017 Results Discussion

[TheDarkGreninja]

Between the millions of Muslims and the couple of Brits still living. It's a lost battle. The Brits have lost their country.

Damn, you're clueless arent you?
Islam is the second largest religion in the United Kingdom, with results from the United Kingdom Census 2011 giving the UK Muslim population in 2011 as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Damn, you're clueless arent you?
Islam is the second largest religion in the United Kingdom, with results from the United Kingdom Census 2011 giving the UK Muslim population in 2011 as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

And that's why UK will become a Islamic country ultimately.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I dont think its possible to define either conservatives or liberals as for respect, equality, fairness and peacefulness in general at this point. Its pretty clear both sides of the political spectrum have leaders in the U.S. who are perfectly happy to disrespect people with differing opinions, take away others rights or fuck the system to cheat their way to the top.

And that is why centrism is the best way of life. Everything in moderation.

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And that's why UK will become a Islamic country ultimately.

Yeah because 4.4% of the population can overthrow the other 95.6%, you must be a troll. There is no way anyone with a hint of rationality could suggest that.
The country is more at risk of becoming atheist/agnostic seeing as how the population of those guys is 25%.

 

[Aurora Wright]

The country is more at risk of becoming atheist/agnostic seeing as how the population of those guys is 25%.

That's a really good risk

 

[Quantumcat]

I'm a Conservative. I.e., someone who believes in respect, equality, fairness, peacefulness of all people within the same country. I'm against military on foreign countries but I can't do anything about it.

Are you sure you're a conservative? Equality for all people (ie welfare, universal medical care, leaving other countries in peace etc) are usually liberal values (not to be confused with Australia's "Liberal Party" which is actually conservative). Conservatives typically are anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-small government, pro-tax cuts to the rich, pro-big business, etc.

 

[FAST6191]

I'm a Conservative. I.e., someone who believes in respect, equality, fairness, peacefulness of all people within the same country.

Are there any vaguely viable political parties that would not claim such values, and indeed of the more edge case ones then how many of those would claim they seek that for a, at least theoretically, maligned group within a country?

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

That's a really good risk

I would disagree (with atheism being the truth, no issues with people thinking it) but after all it's a choice that must be respected.

 

[Aurora Wright]

I would disagree (with atheism being the truth, no issues with people thinking it) but after all it's a choice that must be respected.

I think from a social point of view lack of organized religion (nothing against spirituality in itself) is better, since organized religion is often used as a way to control people and put them against one another, often pushes to get religious dogmas into law (see the catholic church here in Italy as a prime example), and so on

 

[bi388]

I think from a social point of view lack of organized religion (nothing against spirituality in itself) is better, since organized religion is often used as a way to control people and put them against one another, often pushes to get religious dogmas into law (see the catholic church here in Italy as a prime example), and so on

Religion is really a mixed bag. On one hand, it is used all the time to control, brainwash, excuse acts of terrorism, etc but on the other, if done right, it can create amazing communities, lead people towards good moral values and make a positive impact on the world. However, I think nations having an official religion is horrible, and its pretty shocking so many major nations still do.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I think from a social point of view lack of organized religion (nothing against spirituality in itself) is better, since organized religion is often used as a way to control people and put them against one another, often pushes to get religious dogmas into law (see the catholic church here in Italy as a prime example), and so on

Well that's on a religion by religion basis.

Any ideology could be used to control and manipulate people. Take, for example, Hitler who used his Anti-Jew rhetoric and his Nazi ideology, he used that to manipulate the German people and kill 9 million innocent lives, was that his Christian beliefs or his Nazi ideology?
No offence, but to suggest that religion is only ever used to get other people to kill others is ignorant of all the good religion has done in the past. If not for the Islamic Caliphates centuries ago, the majority of Aristotle's work would've been burnt away, this is just one of many cases where a religion saved something, in this case the culture and works of the Ancient Greeks who were denounced by the Catholic church at the time.

Islam is more of a way of life than Christianity is, so I can only really speak from experience in saying that not all religious dogma is evil and oppressive. One must also consider that humanity is inherently a violent species if we have anything against each other we'll use whatever beliefs at our disposal to fight each other. Only in the last century did Mao Zedong kill more people than Christianity and Islam combined.

Edit: Forgot to mention this, but look at the politics of western nations, people hate each other because of their political views, and will call them names based on them, just even more, evidence than any ideology leads to hate.

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Religion is really a mixed bag. On one hand, it is used all the time to control, brainwash, excuse acts of terrorism, etc but on the other, if done right, it can create amazing communities, lead people towards good moral values and make a positive impact on the world. However, I think nations having an official religion is horrible, and its pretty shocking so many major nations still do.

Why, exactly? I can see it being an issue if the majority of the population do not follow it.

 

[Quantumcat]

What happened to gbatemp??

 

[Ikki Barri]

snip

 

[bi388]

Why, exactly? I can see it being an issue if the majority of the population do not follow it.

Not having an official religion promotes free thought, whereas if your country tells you something, youre far more likely to grow up believing what they tell you just because it is your country. I think every government should be secular, not religious or atheist, because I view anything else as essentially brainwashing. Some people in America even do this despite us not having an official religion, saying things like "america is a christian nation, if you dont believe in god go away" or things like that. Many nations even execute people for not following their religion, and while the first world countries are obviously not this extreme, it really rubs me the wrong way for a government to endorse one religion.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Not having an official religion promotes free thought, whereas if your country tells you something, youre far more likely to grow up believing what they tell you just because it is your country. I think every government should be secular, not religious or atheist, because I view anything else as essentially brainwashing. Some people in America even do this despite us not having an official religion, saying things like "america is a christian nation, if you dont believe in god go away" or things like that. Many nations even execute people for not following their religion, and while the first world countries are obviously not this extreme, it really rubs me the wrong way for a government to endorse one religion.

This argument is made obsolete if the government promotes freedom of religion/ lack of. Of course, your argument is otherwise correct.

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What happened to gbatemp??
View attachment 89606

You can go back to the old tempstyle by going to the bottom and clicking tempstyle 2.

 

[bi388]

This argument is made obsolete if the government promotes freedom of religion/ lack of. Of course, your argument is otherwise correct.

Then whats the point of even having an official religion? It still rubs me as propaganda and brainwashing, but I guess im probably lacking first hand experience.

 

[Aurora Wright]

Religion is really a mixed bag. On one hand, it is used all the time to control, brainwash, excuse acts of terrorism, etc but on the other, if done right, it can create amazing communities, lead people towards good moral values and make a positive impact on the world. However, I think nations having an official religion is horrible, and its pretty shocking so many major nations still do.

Yes I agree that religion/spirituality can have a bonding purpose. However dogmas and organization (hierarchies with clergy and the like) aren't really needed for this to be the case. As I said, I have nothing against the spirituality in itself.
Also, while it's true that not all dogmas are socially "bad", there's a non-religious explanation for those. As an example, if we take "you must not kill", this moral value (which was also put into law pretty much everywhere) exists because without it, society would collapse, so it's agreed upon that people need not to do that and that it's "wrong".

No offence, but to suggest that religion is only ever used to get other people to kill others is ignorant of all the good religion has done in the past. If not for the Islamic Caliphates centuries ago, the majority of Aristotle's work would've been burnt away, this is just one of many cases where a religion saved something, in this case the culture and works of the Ancient Greeks who were denounced by the Catholic church at the time.

Islam is more of a way of life than Christianity is, so I can only really speak from experience in saying that not all religious dogma is evil and oppressive. One must also consider that humanity is inherently a violent species if we have anything against each other we'll use whatever beliefs at our disposal to fight each other. Only in the last century did Mao Zedong kill more people than Christianity and Islam combined.

I don't deny that organized religion was very important to keep society together in the past, or that it did good things. I just think that, today, that importance is lessening more and more (the increasing amounts of non religious people suggests that this is the case) and that nowadays it does more harm than good to society. I also never said that organized religion is the only way to control people (as you said political ideologies can too as an example), but it's a very effective one.

Edit: Forgot to mention this, but look at the politics of western nations, people hate each other because of their political views, and will call them names based on them, just even more, evidence than any ideology leads to hate.

Not sure what you're referring to with this, but if it's socially conservative ideas (and people who believe in those), like being against LGBT rights and stuff, I "hate" them because they worsen people's lives for no reason and I think society should guarantee the highest happiness to its members.
I don't think ideas should be called "political" when they have such a direct impact on people

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Then whats the point of even having an official religion? It still rubs me as propaganda and brainwashing, but I guess im probably lacking first hand experience.

To represent what the majority of the people's beliefs are.

I just think that, today, that importance is lessening more and more (the increasing amounts of non religious people suggests that this is the case) and that nowadays it does more harm than good to society.

I don't know about that. Seeing as how most of our morals, whether you like it or not, come from religious beliefs of the past.

Not sure what you're referring to with this, but if it's socially conservative ideas (and people who believe in those), like being against LGBT rights and stuff, I "hate" them because they worsen people's lives for no reason and I think society should guarantee the highest happiness to its members.

It's more on political beliefs entirely, like liberals hating/disliking those on the right. Which I think to be completely irrational.

 

[Quantumcat]

To represent what the majority of the people's beliefs are.

Why is that even needed? So what if whatever percentage of a country's population is a certain religion? What does that have to do with government?

 

[Lacius]

Seeing as how most of our morals, whether you like it or not, come from religious beliefs of the past.

Morality doesn't come from religion.

 

[bi388]

To represent what the majority of the people's beliefs are.

Doesnt that ostracize minorities? It would certainly make me feel ostracized. When something isnt directly political, why should the government endorse the majority opinion on it? The people of that religion will have the same rights whether its official or not, it makes no difference other than to say "these people are in our nations religion, and these minority groups arent." Religion should have absolutely no place in government imo, because once it enters, someone is going to enforce policies off of religious belief rather than reasoning. It even happens in secular nations.