Hacking Is it safe to say Sky3DS will be invulnerable to Nintendo FW updates forever?

[Miles54321]

Sky3ds could potentially be blocked, it just hasn't happened yet, I think it may take a very long time before it's blocked at this rate, Nintendo don't seem to care or are strugglin to block it, latter is unlikely but you never know

 

[coveiro24]

Why this threads, with no sense?!

 

[Aliogeek]

Sky3ds could potentially be blocked, it just hasn't happened yet, I think it may take a very long time before it's blocked at this rate, Nintendo don't seem to care or are strugglin to block it, latter is unlikely but you never know

Wait & See...

 

[GhostLatte]

It will probably be blocked Soon™.

 

[Fire_Slasher]

It will probably be blocked Soon™.

How soon though? Soon™.

 

[GhostLatte]

How soon though? Soon™.

Let me check.

 

[Kohmei]

Forever is a very long time.

 

[KSP]

Simple answer. Yes it is invulnerable sorta speak.

Being able to detect something and being able to block something are two completely different stories.

DS flashcards with reprogrammable FPGAs could always be detected, and Nintendo has tried to block them since day one by blocking certain game IDs and updating their blacklist, each time the card manufacturer would update the FPGA with new card ID negating Nintendo's block.

In short Sky3DS cannot be blocked because it can spoof the card ID on the fly, using the same principle as say a R4 Gold when it flashes its FPGA to bypass Nintendo blacklist, but Sky3DS does this on the fly.
Cards that don't require an exploit and use hardware card spoofing are unblockable, so long as they can change the card ID on the fly.

Nintendo would need to literally add 10000 card IDs into their blacklist just to block the Sky3DS for one day, because the very next day Sky3DS can update their template and bypass the blacklist by swapping out all their card IDs.

Although Sky3DS can be detected just like the R4 Gold or DSTwo, it can't be blocked in a reasonable fashion that cannot be bypassed, which is why Nintendo hasn't done it yet.

Also blocking 10000 card IDs can be very dangerous since some of those cards could be circulating in the used market, and you'd hurt real customers, which Nintendo can't risk.

Just my two cents.

 

[motezazer]

Simple answer. Yes it is invulnerable sorta speak.

Being able to detect something and being able to block something are two completely different stories.

DS flashcards with reprogrammable FPGAs could always be detected, and Nintendo has tried to block them since day one by blocking certain game IDs and updating their blacklist, each time the card manufacturer would update the FPGA with new card ID negating Nintendo's block.

In short Sky3DS cannot be blocked because it can spoof the card ID on the fly, using the same principle as say a R4 Gold when it flashes its FPGA to bypass Nintendo blacklist, but Sky3DS does this on the fly.
Cards that don't require an exploit and use hardware card spoofing are unblockable, so long as they can change the card ID on the fly.

Nintendo would need to literally add 10000 card IDs into their blacklist just to block the Sky3DS for one day, because the very next day Sky3DS can update their template and bypass the blacklist by swapping out all their card IDs.

Although Sky3DS can be detected just like the R4 Gold or DSTwo, it can't be blocked in a reasonable fashion that cannot be bypassed, which is why Nintendo hasn't done it yet.

Also blocking 10000 card IDs can be very dangerous since some of those cards could be circulating in the used market, and you'd hurt real customers, which Nintendo can't risk.

Just my two cents.

You're totally wrong.
3DS carts are not like DS ones.
If Nintendo want to block Sky3DS, they won't block the cart ID.
The games aren't running on bare metal anymore : big OS is watching them.
Nintendo can perform speed checks while the game is launching (and even while the game is running).
Sky3DS basically can't have the same speed than the proprietary Nintendo cartridge format. The OS can use that to block Sky3DS once for all.

 

[KSP]

You're totally wrong.
3DS carts are not like DS ones.
If Nintendo want to block Sky3DS, they won't block the cart ID.
The games aren't running on bare metal anymore : big OS is watching them.
Nintendo can perform speed checks while the game is launching (and even while the game is running).
Sky3DS basically can't have the same speed than the proprietary Nintendo cartridge format. The OS can use that to block Sky3DS once for all.

Games were never running on bare metal, DS DSi all had OS's that could theoretically run speed checks, never prevented flashcards from running.
Speed checks are impractical since Ninety cards run on various chips that vary in speed from manufacturer to manufacturer, to block games based on the speed of the chip is pretty ludicrous which is probably why it hasn't been implemented.
As much as you'd love to see sky get blocked, its just not gonna happen.
What's next, voltage checks? How about latency checks? How about heat checks? LOL

 

[Oishikatta]

The whole speed thing is irrelevant since we know there's a simpler way, and we also know that sky can't (or won't) update their fpga.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Games were never running on bare metal, DS DSi all had OS's that could theoretically run speed checks, never prevented flashcards from running.

Um, no they didn't. Well, I guess the DSi kind of did, but the DS sure didn't. All it had was a TINY firmware with no official update mechanism whatsoever.

 

[motezazer]

Games were never running on bare metal, DS DSi all had OS's that could theoretically run speed checks, never prevented flashcards from running.
Speed checks are impractical since Ninety cards run on various chips that vary in speed from manufacturer to manufacturer, to block games based on the speed of the chip is pretty ludicrous which is probably why it hasn't been implemented.
As much as you'd love to see sky get blocked, its just not gonna happen.
What's next, voltage checks? How about latency checks? How about heat checks? LOL

DS games are running on the bare metal. Whatever the device (DS, DSi, 3DS).
Speed checks were ALREADY used by game makers at DS time (but that was ineffective because we could patch the games as they weren't signed).
There is only three agreed manufacturers, and the manufacturer code is written into the game anyway.
That's realistic.

The whole speed thing is irrelevant since we know there's a simpler way, and we also know that sky can't (or won't) update their fpga.

Yes, but Nintendo surely wants a future proof method that cannot be circumvented by a green or a purple or a whatever button revision.

 

[Deleted-19228]

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

 

[Foxi4]

Games were never running on bare metal, DS DSi all had OS's that could theoretically run speed checks, never prevented flashcards from running.
Speed checks are impractical since Ninety cards run on various chips that vary in speed from manufacturer to manufacturer, to block games based on the speed of the chip is pretty ludicrous which is probably why it hasn't been implemented.
As much as you'd love to see sky get blocked, its just not gonna happen.
What's next, voltage checks? How about latency checks? How about heat checks? LOL

DS games practically run on bare metal, so much so that you could flash a small game onto the system instead of the firmware and it'd work fine.

As for how flashcarts were blocked at the time, it was a "cat and mouse" sort of dealio for a very, very long time until Nintendo realized that they're being idiots at which point they implemented a flashcart detection system based on the non-rewritable save IC info. The great majority of flashcarts didn't have correct save IC info written on the chips so they were all obsoleted in one fell swoop with the v4.4.0-10 update.

Will the Sky3DS be banned eventually? Yes, as soon as Nintendo engineers figure out how it works, which might take them years since they're incompetent, as seen above in the case of the original DS and the DSi.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

DS games practically run on bare metal, so much so that you could flash a small game onto the system instead of the firmware and it'd work fine.

Wait, has this been done? It sounds like a terrible waste of money but also SO COOL.

 

[Foxi4]

Wait, has this been done? It sounds like a terrible waste of money but also SO COOL.

Sure it's been done and it's not a waste of money at all provided you have FlashMe and a dump of your firmware to "fix" the DS afterwards. You can flash it with anything you want provided it fits, I've seen homebrew tested that way just for giggles. To be fair though, you have next to no space - the firmware is just 256kb.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Sure it's been done and it's not a waste of money at all provided you have FlashMe and a dump of your firmware to "fix" the DS afterwards.

Oh that's right, flashMe has a restore feature. Memories...

 

[nl255]

Sky3ds could potentially be blocked, it just hasn't happened yet, I think it may take a very long time before it's blocked at this rate, Nintendo don't seem to care or are strugglin to block it, latter is unlikely but you never know

Well keep in mind that apparently Nintendo wasn't capable of making a decent GBA emulator for the Wii U, they had to hire M2 to do it for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the N64 VC was done the same way.

So yes, I would say that they are probably struggling to block the Sky3DS.

 

[motezazer]

Well, keep in mind that apparently Nintendo wasn't capable of making a decent GBA emulator for the Wii U, they had to hire M2 to do it for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the N64 VC was done the same way.

And for GBA VC for the 3DS, they put GBA hardware in the console...