Hacking Nintendont - wiimote & nunchuck support discussions

[nakata6790]

Personally, I am referring to naggers config almost exclusively on my above post with results for each genre.

I recomend everyone try racing games with the appropriate racing config. They were booth intended to free the hand holding the wiimote to be able to press any button.

Will do!

When you guys are talking about using IR are you requesting:
When the wiimote is pointed to the left the cstick position will be generally to the left.
or
When the wiimote is pointed at a spot on the screen I want the crosshair to move to that exact spot. It should adjust for whare I am standing in the room, how high I am holding the wiimote, the size of the screen and weather wide screen is on.

The former i think. The second must be really hard to achieve.
Btw, could i provide you a custom wiimote & nunchuck control config i have for Not64, so you can try it in GoldenEye or Perfect Dark and see what i have in mind?

Are you proposing to use wiimote tilt/ir at the same time as nunchuck tilt for different controls or using the wiimotes tilt/ir instead of the nunchucks tilt?

No, not at the same time, that would be like those clown baloons that flail around their arms when air blows from underneath

The latter i propose, ie using the wiimotes tilt/ir instead of the nunchucks tilt.

And Howard, many many THANKS for the beta, even at this incomplete state it rocks. I will donate again next month, you deserve it.

 

[VinsCool]

I will test more games too I agree with Nakata, the naggers config is the best one for alot of games I will test racing games later, with racing mapping.

Edit: will test tomorow. I need to sleep before

 

[nakata6790]

I tried racing config ( - and dpad Up to activate) and it works well in Burnout games, V Rally 3 and Dakar 2


Howard and whoever else interested in the topic of configs:
Hey man, to have a firsthand idea at what i am proposing and how well it works, please try the following:

• Wiimote IR in 3rd person/platform games Try Tomb Raider Anniversary Wii, game has you controlling the camera with wimote IR when you are holding nunchuck C pressed. Works really nice.

• Wiimote IR in FPS games:

1. Download Wii64, here (link updated).
2. Unzip & place in your SD card.
3. Download Goldeneye 007 rom and/or Perfect Dark rom and place them in /wii64/roms folder
4. Start Wii64 from HBC, use Wiimote & nunchuck (wii64 should auto detect them and show a pic of wiimote & Nc like in the picture below).

5. Make sure you map the buttons in Wii64 like in the pic below (settings-->input-->configure buttons):
(hint:alternatively, you can load slot 4, i have the above mapping ready)
---> --->

6. Now load the GoldenEye or Perfect Dark roms. FYI, i have provided complete savegames for both.
---> --->

7. Now, once in game, set control config to 1.2. / Solitaire (from the in game options in GE & PD).


I am suggesting you try this, in order to see firsthand how IR replaces analog stick movement in a FPS game. If you have done the above, the games should control like this:
Wiimote IR looks and turns (replaces N64 analog), nunchuck analog moves and strafes (replaces c buttons of N64), wiimote A aims (replaces N64 R) and wiimote B-trigger shoots (replaces N64 Z-trigger). N64 A and B are nunchuck's C & Z buttons to change weapon & reload.


EDIT: updated instructions & links in order to be more straighforward

 

[nakata6790]

So, anyone else tried the beta? What about the Wii64 IR in GoldenEye & PD? (or any Wii fps for that matter ;p)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Howard]

How consystent across gamecube fps is button useage?
Do any of the gamecube fps use the analog ability of the triggers?

 

[VinsCool]

I tried the beta and all I could say is that works very well as is. Maybe some more custom mapping and we're done

 

[Farowe]

Here is my feedback:

everything in the control is extremely reliable except functions triggered by the nunchuk tilt like the c-stick. Im not againts motion controls but it seems more natural if c-stick were controled by wiimote movement.

FPS games are basically unplayable currently as they requiere precise inputs from the c-stick; smash bros does works, but again, c-stick is unreliable, i can´t use c-stick smash attacks precisely.

Nunchuk does a good job detecting horizontal movement, however it is extremely unprecise when detecting the vertical movement. And even if nunchuk was accurate, i don´t find it as intuitive as using the wiimote to control the c-stick.

-

Another issue with controls: the nunchuk stick. I was playing f-zero and i noticed that the stick threshold wasn´t been reached; hopefuly, f-zero gx has an option in which you can calibrate stick and rearrange the threshold and dead zone; but what if the game doesn´t have this built in calibration option? Well, even if you tilt the stick towards the edge, nintendont detects this input as a halfway tilt. My suggestion is that you reduce the stick thresholds so stick input is on par with the actual tilt angle.

 

[nakata6790]

How consystent across gamecube fps is button useage?
Do any of the gamecube fps use the analog ability of the triggers?

I have played and beaten the following GC fps: Timesplitters 2, Timesplitters 3, Turok Evolution, Die Hard Vendetta, 007 Nightfire, XIII, Metroid Prime (FP Adventure), Hitman 2 (can be played as an fps exclusively), MoH Frontline & MoH European Assault & Red Faction II.

All of them use L as aim and R as shoot by default. Z is usually secondary fire or grenade by default.
Most of the above have customizable controls, some even fully (RFII, TS2, TS3).

Out of the above, IIRC only Timesplitters 2 and Metroid Prime use a GC trigger as an analog one. The former has a zoom in, analogous to how much you press the L button and the latter has the target reticle show bolder, the more you press the GC R button. However the former is easily replaceable with the zoom in/out function (default dpad up/dpad down while holding L) and so it works exactly the same, with even a digital L trigger (Timesplitters games offer really good GC customization in game). The latter (Metroid Prime) is really really a no big deal cause it does not affect gameplay or control in any way whatsoever. What's more, MP already has an awesome Wii port in Metroid Prime Trilogy. Also Hitman 2 (full L press=duck, mid L press= move stealthily) but if you set crouch at toggle, this is not needed, and bypassed with the 1,2 wiimote buttons (see below).

Even for other games that also use the GC analog triggers, there is not a problem. I tested the 2 Rogue Squadron games (Rogue Leader & Rebel Strike), and Super Mario Sunshine (full press= water nozzle at full power and you stand still, mid press and you spray while moving). When testing the beta, i also ran these games as well as Luigi's mansion. They were really easy to go through, thanks to the L1/L2 and R1/R2 assignment you gave to the wiimote 1 & 2 buttons, which register as mid pressed L & R buttons of GC pad. So, no worries there, Howard.

Here is my feedback:

everything in the control is extremely reliable except functions triggered by the nunchuk tilt like the c-stick. Im not againts motion controls but it seems more natural if c-stick were controled by wiimote movement.

FPS games are basically unplayable currently as they requiere precise inputs from the c-stick; smash bros does works, but again, c-stick is unreliable, i can´t use c-stick smash attacks precisely.

Nunchuk does a good job detecting horizontal movement, however it is extremely unprecise when detecting the vertical movement. And even if nunchuk was accurate, i don´t find it as intuitive as using the wiimote to control the c-stick.

Yep, that is the only thing not ideal yet.
You can get by in FPS (make sure to set vertical look to invert), but it is worse than the GC default pad, something that does not happen with other genres where wiimote & nunchuck can be just as good as the GC pad for me, with the naggers config. Even Soul Calibur 2, yesterday i beat the arcade mode with Link in 2'34'' with NC & wiimote controls.

Another issue with controls: the nunchuk stick. I was playing f-zero and i noticed that the stick threshold wasn´t been reached; hopefuly, f-zero gx has an option in which you can calibrate stick and rearrange the threshold and dead zone; but what if the game doesn´t have this built in calibration option? Well, even if you tilt the stick towards the edge, nintendont detects this input as a halfway tilt. My suggestion is that you reduce the stick thresholds so stick input is on par with the actual tilt angle.

Hm, i had not noticed that, thanks. It's great that F Zero also has a fully customizable control mapping in game.

 

[Howard]

Here is my feedback:

everything in the control is extremely reliable except functions triggered by the nunchuk tilt like the c-stick. Im not againts motion controls but it seems more natural if c-stick were controled by wiimote movement.

Wiimote movement would only be usefull in games whare you need constant use of the cStick.

FPS games are basically unplayable currently as they requiere precise inputs from the c-stick; smash bros does works, but again, c-stick is unreliable, i can´t use c-stick smash attacks precisely.

I dont see a way to make Smash brothers work well with a wiimote + nunchuck. It realy needs a joystick as the cStick because how fast you move the cStick affects what it does. giving up the main stick even as a shifted function wont work in that game.

Nunchuk does a good job detecting horizontal movement, however it is extremely unprecise when detecting the vertical movement. And even if nunchuk was accurate, i don´t find it as intuitive as using the wiimote to control the c-stick.

The nunchuch is NOT detecting horizontal or vertical movements. It is detecting tilt in relation to gravity. For left and right roll your wrist left and right. For up and down tilt your wrist up and down.

Another issue with controls: the nunchuk stick. I was playing f-zero and i noticed that the stick threshold wasn´t been reached; hopefuly, f-zero gx has an option in which you can calibrate stick and rearrange the threshold and dead zone; but what if the game doesn´t have this built in calibration option? Well, even if you tilt the stick towards the edge, nintendont detects this input as a halfway tilt. My suggestion is that you reduce the stick thresholds so stick input is on par with the actual tilt angle.

Which configuration?
Are you talking about the nunchuck stick or the tilt function?

I think you are having the problems your having with the tilt functions because your trying to move the nunchuck up, down. left and right. For it to work properly you need to not be moving it but rotating it in space.

 

[Farowe]

Wiimote movement would only be usefull in games whare you need constant use of the cStick.

Time splitters is a fps which relies on c-stick movement for aiming. Most fps or games with free camera angle work this way making them uncomfortable for the c-stick to be attached to nunchuk tilt angle.

I dont see a way to make Smash brothers work well with a wiimote + nunchuck. It realy needs a joystick as the cStick because how fast you move the cStick affects what it does. giving up the main stick even as a shifted function wont work in that game.

Nunchuk does reduce the function of the c-stick as movements aren´t as swift as those on a stick but it works for me; the problems comes when i tilt my nunchuk up or down with my wrist in other to do up or down smash attacks.

The nunchuch is NOT detecting horizontal or vertical movements. It is detecting tilt in relation to gravity. For left and right roll your wrist left and right. For up and down tilt your wrist up and down.

Yes, the nunchuk detects tilt in relation to gravity, but the input that the game reads is an "x" and "y" value, its the "y" value which seems is not in par with the real tilt of the nunchuk; perhaps the nunchuk has some delay in updating input or needs some constant calibration to detect up and down tilts.

Which configuration?
Are you talking about the nunchuck stick or the tilt function?

Im talking about the stick (which also tilts). Here is an image which describes the issue i addressed previously.

Spoiler

In this image you can clearly see that the nunchuk tilt doesn´t fill the threshold, its a little more than half there and this is harmful for games that relay on stick sensitiveness such as f-zero or racing games overall.

I think you are having the problems your having with the tilt functions because your trying to move the nunchuck up, down. left and right. For it to work properly you need to not be moving it but rotating it in space.

I wouldn´t bother to make the previous post if i wasn´t sure that i was using the nunchuk properly; i do know that nunchuk detects tilt, its all in the wrist. With that say, my feedback remains solid.

 

[Howard]

Nunchuk does reduce the function of the c-stick as movements aren´t as swift as those on a stick but it works for me; the problems comes when i tilt my nunchuk up or down with my wrist in other to do up or down smash attacks.

Yes, the nunchuk detects tilt in relation to gravity, but the input that the game reads is an "x" and "y" value, its the "y" value which seems is not in par with the real tilt of the nunchuk; perhaps the nunchuk has some delay in updating input or needs some constant calibration to detect up and down tilts.

Im talking about the stick (which also tilts). Here is an image which describes the issue i addressed previously.

Spoiler

In this image you can clearly see that the nunchuk tilt doesn´t fill the threshold, its a little more than half there and this is harmful for games that relay on stick sensitiveness such as f-zero or racing games overall.

What program has the test display in it?

 

[VinsCool]

What program has the test display in it?

F-Zero GX

 

[Howard]

F-Zero GX

I realize you can tilt your joystick. Can we please call a joystick a joystick and call tilt tilt so I can tell which we are talking about.

What values are you seeing on the calibration display? I tested actual gamecube controllers some of them put out values as low as 93. All of my nunchuck joysticks put out values higher than that.

Is their a way to get the calibration display to display the cStick instead of the main stick?

 

[VinsCool]

I realize you can tilt your joystick. Can we please call a joystick a joystick and call tilt tilt so I can tell which we are talking about.

What values are you seeing on the calibration display? I tested actual gamecube controllers some of them put out values as low as 93. All of my nunchuck joysticks put out values higher than that.

Is their a way to get the calibration display to display the cStick instead of the main stick?

Oh, he was talking about the joystick. I don't know if there is a method to calibrate cstick in games.

 

[nakata6790]

Is their a way to get the calibration display to display the cStick instead of the main stick?

Unfortunately not, I tried messing with F-zero GX but no dice. HOWEVER, I thought of a way you can test and calirate the "c-stick". Make an experimental mod of your nunchuck mod, just for this test: here GC analog = c & wiimote IR and NC analog = C-stick of GC. Now you can under take the above F-Zero GX test and use the results to calibrate IR so as it accurately mimics a stick (note: c-stick & analog perform simularly on a real GC pad). Finally, use that data to map IR to GC stick. I hope I explained this well, I am on mobile atm.

 

[Howard]

Those of you that donated should have recieved

Nintendont Nunchuck Beta 2
Based on 2.167

Major internal chganges. Test everything related to
bluetooth it may have broken.

When using the tilt as a the cStick reduced how much you
need to tilt to get full stick range. It was possable to
achieve full range before but was very uncomfortable on your
wrist.

Fixed config racing analog gas and break tied to tilt. The
tilt function wasent working well.

Added new configuration One = FPS
Same as default except always uses wiimote IR to control the cStick
Right now it is more of a proof of concept. It is not intended to be playable yet. It still needs a lot of work.

 

[Farowe]

Those of you that donated should have recieved

Nintendont Nunchuck Beta 2
Based on 2.167

Major internal chganges. Test everything related to
bluetooth it may have broken.

When using the tilt as a the cStick reduced how much you
need to tilt to get full stick range. It was possable to
achieve full range before but was very uncomfortable on your
wrist.

Fixed config racing analog gas and break tied to tilt. The
tilt function wasent working well.

Added new configuration One = FPS
Same as default except always uses wiimote IR to control the cStick
Right now it is more of a proof of concept. It is not intended to be playable yet. It still needs a lot of work.

Alright, i just tested this release and i can perceive some real improvements. C-stick on nunchuk feels less uncomfortable, the only thing left to suggest is if you could only lower the dead zone as it is still uncomfortable to tilt down.

Now onto the fps config: wow, even as proof of concept i can see the potential. I was playing a fps and i was really liking it, when moving horizontally it feels amazing, almost like a true wii fps; the problem begins when moving vertically: as soon as i pointed the wii remote up or down the c-stick began to flicker and move into other directions. With some minor (i believe) adjustments this could turn to be very close to emulate a wii first person shooter.

Also, on the FPS config, L and R buttons should be mapped to Z and B buttons, the gamecube Z could be mapped to the nunchuk right tilt; b button should be d-pad down, x and y left and right d-pad.

No bluetooth errors so far by the way.

 

[VinsCool]

Very cool Thanks Howard! I will test later.

 

[nakata6790]

Thanks for the newest beta!

Tested with TS2, TS3 & Die Hard Vendetta.
First thing's first: i really think that IR should be paired with naggers config's button mapping. It should replace nunchuck tilt for naggers config, and take its' place.
Default config's button mapping is not ideal for FPS (you need L & R buttons a lot in GC FPS, so nunchuck tilt is not a good idea to map those 2 buttons. Wii Z & B are much better suited for this, so naggers config is best for this genre.

If you want, i could even propose a FPS only button mapping for a custom beta .dol for FPS games with IR.

As far as the IR is confirmed, it works quite well! I think the sensitivity should be a bit higher (meaning the deadzone of the IR should be smaller) so that more fine small movements of the wiimote translate to fine small movements of the aim.

Other than that, really REALLY great work!


No bluetooth errors here, either, tested with nunchuck and with Classic controller .

 

[VinsCool]

^ I second this, naggers would work better in fps, and ir tilt in naggers would be better in most games using cstick for camera control.