A Belgian voting tale...

[h1]Introduction[/h1]

Okay, I admit it: I've added to the controversy about the US mail voting controversy. More specific: I created this poll about it. I had anticipated polarized results, but honestly didn't expect it to be this bad. If I had known that a large majority of republicans want to vote in person (as opposed to democrats, who largely want to vote by mail), it'd been a different situation, but I didn't. From what I can see, there are two major issues at hand:
1. voter registration. This...apparently has quite some cracks in it, or at least has the idea that this is much harder than it should be. About the only thing that helps me understand it is that in the USA citizens don't have an ID-card.
2. the USPS is in financial trouble. Critics say that this is because of legislation that puts them in a position where it would be impossible to make a profit. Either way: recent actions on that front have led to a political tug of war.

I won't go into detail on neither of those. I mean...that's what the thread linked earlier is for. Instead, I'm going to use my own blog space to talk about Belgium's last election, highlighting some differences. Here goes...

[h1]Preface[/h1]

The first thing to know is that in Belgium, voting isn't optional. It is obligated (I repeat: obligated) for all citizens above 18. I'm not joking: you can get fined if you don't cast your vote, even if that vote is just a blank. That's what nearly happened to me and my girlfriend last election, but I'll get to that. I might be mistaken, but afaik this obligation doesn't apply to Belgians living abroad somewhere. They have options to cast their votes by distance (mail or the internet...I'm not sure, honestly), but won't face fines if they don't vote. It's different for Belgians who have their home address in Belgium. Should they be on vacation or business trip on election day, they should apply for someone to cast a vote in their name. I know because I voted for my parents once when they were on vacation.
EDIT: almost forgot: convicted criminals aren't allowed to vote. There may be other exceptions, but certainly not many.

There are also four kinds of voting, which usually align to some degree. The district's the closest (it's the town or city you live in), then there's the "gewestverkiezing" (basically Flanders vs Wallonia vs Brussels...Belgium's weird like that :rolleyes: ), federal (the actual 'Belgian' election) and one for our electorates in the EU. We also have over a dozen political parties. Half of these are Flemish parties, the other half Wallonian. And they're divided, so as a Flemish citizen I cannot vote for e.g. PS or ecolo (Wallonian parties). They cannot vote for SP-A or Groen. The mentioned examples have very similar ideologies. Still...
But I digress. When I say I follow Belgian politics, I mean I keep track of what the parties want to achieve, what they actually achieve and what they criticize. Nearly every political party vies (runs?) for all kinds of voting areas, but I have to admit it's a whole mess to figure out which areas are courtesy of the "gewest" and which are handled at a federal level, let alone what the EU has as responsibilities (district's usually easiest to figure out, though).
To add to the choice-stress: we have a say in the person(s) within the party as well. When we pick a political party, we next get a list of candidates of that party. They usually put their front runner on top of the list, but you can explicitly vote for your neighbor if he/she runs for something. Since all the voting happens on the same day, you either go early or you have to queue. I (and since I'm with my girlfriend: we) go somewhat "early but not too early". I've never had anything any issues until last election (again: I'm coming to that).

By the way: the poll boots I've been to were always within a few streets from my home, and always carried computers with touchscreens. There are still a few districts that still do pen and paper, but Antwerp have at least voted completely electronically since at least 2000 (the year I started participating in our democracy). Never had a hitch or any controversies about it either (well...not entirely true: every election it happens that a few voting machines fail, resulting in longer waiting lines because the remaining ones are used more often. That's about it).

Our last elections were on May 26th 2019. For the next part, it's important to know that me and my girlfriend moved to another province early April. Or say mid april, when we officially changed our address.

[h1]The voting process[/h1]

Obviously, with voting being obligated, there is no registration process. Everyone over 18 gets their ballot in the mail a couple weeks in advance. You bring it to your voting boot, show your ID-card, receive a voting card for the computer, insert that card in the computer, cast your vote, you get your ID-card and the ballot (with a stamp on it) back, and that's that. That stamped ballot is only needed in case there has been some administrative error somewhere (note: I'm not sure on the word "ballot". Perhaps in the USA the actual voting card is sent through the mail instead of an administrational invite to swap for the actual ballot. But you get the idea, right?).

...which brings me to the major thorn in the foot of the USA: no unified ID-card. It's not that I haven't seen in films and series how drivers licenses are used for ID, but it still strikes me as odd. In Belgium, everyone has an ID-card that he or she needs to have on him at all times. Should you lose it, you must immediately apply for a new one. It acts as age verification, legitimation and for most if not all administration tasks. Heck...I had to use mine just yesterday when we were taking garbage to the dump(1). It's for local citizens only. I'm a registered local citizen, so I put my ID in the machine and it allowed us access. Easy-peasy.
And to be frank: get your shit together, USA. Your complaints about "illegal aliens" suddenly got a lot less believable once I realised you don't have a unified way to ID your own citizens in the first place. :rolleyes:

Back on-topic: since the recent controversy, I should perhaps point out something in regards to mail: OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS NEVER HAVE POST STAMPS. Whether it's a fine, an official announcement from the mayor, a fine or a voting ballot: it is delivered free by the mail. Or more precise: the Belgium state sponsors it. Granted, our postal service isn't tied to some ridiculous claims like in the US, but to us it's equally ridiculous to expect that the postal service should try to make a profit. It's almos the inverse: the name "postal service" itself says that it's a SERVICE. We don't expect the road next to our house to make a profit for the country in order for them to build or maintain it. Like that, and like our ID cards, it are things we simply expect from our government. More so...when our ballots didn't came through, we never once thought it might have been the postal office "withholding our ballots".


I've mentioned my girlfriend and me moved houses, right? As a result, I went to the postal office to request our mail to be forwarded for the next six months (it's a service they do for people moving houses). So when our mail came through but not our ballots, we initially assumed it was just late. But pretty soon, all our friends and neighbours had theirs and we still had nothing. I contacted the district's office, who told me that since our official change of address was too close to election day (roughly a month earlier :unsure: ), we would still have to vote in our old neighborhood. The ballots "should arrive at your new address, though". They didn't. I called my old house, but neither my old neighbor nor my rentee had received anything.
The problem was easy to solve, though. I just checked the Antwerp district's site, (again) identified through my ID-card and just printed out a replacement ballot. The next day, my girlfriend and me did the same for her (using her card).

Whenever some republicans (it's always republicans for some reason) claim that mail in voting is prone to fraud, I mentally imagine myself just printing out that ballot in my name dozens of times. Would have been easy to do. And if US ballots have something akin to "yeah, just put it in whatever voting boot you want" on it I would see the fraudulent potential. But this Belgian quality ballot had my name, ID card reference and the voting boot address on it. I could either bring in the original ballot (that we still expected by mail at that time, btw) or the copy. Either would end up having my name marked as "this guy has voted", and just queue-ing again with another ballot (and perhaps a fake moustache for comedy purposes :P ) would just reveal that I had already voted before I would get my actual voting card.

So...on May 26th, my girlfriend and me took a trip back to our old country to cast our vote, using the printout ballot (original is still...somewhere). We accidentally ran into our old neighbors. We visited my parents (who lived in that area). And returned to our actual home later that day. Voting in our new town (and if this pandemic keeps up: from home) is something for next election. At that time, neither of us thought anything else of it. But it wasn't...

[h1]The error[/h1]

About two to three weeks later, I got a mail. From the election committee. It was a fine of over 100 euro's (I forgot the amount). I apparently didn't show up for poll booting duty. This duty is a random draft. The poll boots have to be manned (y'know: helping people who manage to find marking a dot difficult, crossing off names and so on), and for obvious reasons these can't be political volunteers. So in addition to being obligated to vote, there's a chance you're drafted to show up and aid in the voting process. My brother had it happen twice. My father some time as well. My mother - strangely enough - never thus far. And up until now, I was never selected either. And the ironic thing is: I wouldn't mind aiding. It's on a day nobody (by definition) has anything planned before the afternoon, and the only thing my brother didn't like - getting up so early - isn't something I'm bothered with.
So apparently I now was selected...but only got notified afterwards. :unsure:

I wrote back the situation. That my girlfriend and me moved in April, and didn't get our ballots. How we had to call both the new and the old districts to find out where to vote and how to obtain a ballot copy. I enclosed a scanned copy of the stamped ballot, proving that we drove about 70 kilometers just to cast our vote. Had I known I'd be selected for jury duty on that very same voting boot, I would have been there. More so, I wrote: I'd be glad to be selected next time, albeit in our new district(2).

This letter was a gamble, I admit. I've challenged unfair fines before, but they usually end up adding "administrative costs" on top of the original fine. So I was more than thrilled to receive a letter back not only acknowledging my situation but apologizing for the erroneous fine as well.



[h1]Conclusion[/h1]

Yeah...what else to say about Belgian elections? To me, it was just something that's sort of "there". I'm sort of on the fence on the obligation part (most other EU countries don't do it, and I know a few people who deliberately don't vote despite the potential fine), but I'd certainly vote if it wasn't obligated. Our political system is a mess that needs to be cleaned up, yes. But if I've learned anything from the USPS mail by voting situation, it's that our problems are luxury problems. These sorts of hiccups are minor and incidental. We've got plenty of political parties, but there is never a clear winner (btw...it's well over a year since that vote and we still don't have a government :rolleyes: ). But that means that whatever passes is approved by a large notion. We don't have a "winner takes all" attitude where a new leader can spend his time undoing what his predecessor achieved. I was never really proud of what we have in Belgium, but in retrospect perhaps I should be. It's certainly not something one can take for granted...


(1): we're still renovating. Last week my father and me tore down a wall and a ceiling to make room for a stairs to the attic. Result: an insane amount of rubble, stone, bricks and dust
(2): to be honest, I wasn't really thrilled to be part of the assistance committee if they started out by not properly notifying me. Also: voting is usually in public schools, so at about five minute walks for most people (at least in urban areas). An hour drive obviously diminishes the enthousiasm a bit.
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I've been part of the poll booting duty. Twice. And it was actually quite different to do each time.

First time was the introduction of what they called "computer counting", which was... Far from being counted by computer. Basically, the duty group was cut into small, 10-person groups based on last name's first letter (I was on the G-L group), and then assigned all the votes from the people in my city with the same group.

What was expected was that each vote would be scanned and registered by the computer, but the result was manual input. So, to hasten the thing (since we only had one computer for 10 people), each of us would count manually 1/10th of the votes, then check twice and report it to the computer.

From there, as I was the second one to finish counting his own votes, I noticed something else - I was the only one of the group who wasn't inept in using computers. So, as the third one struggled, I stayed near the computer to input the others' numbers, which end up going faster to the point our group was the fastest that day, and managed to come home around 3pm when most got stuck until 7pm.

Second time proved much harder, since no computers due to a collective failure. However, since the amount of votes got seriously cut (there were two places to vote in my city, and most people in my last name letter range were at the place I wasn't drafted to), we were 14 people, and only 4 were needed, so a random draw was done, and... I wasn't in it. So I signed, got off half an hour after being in, and got paid for it (because yes, you're forced to go in, but you're paid for the whole day, something around 50 € / person).

So yeah, lots of fun.
 
Belgium politics :toot::cry::angry::shit::gun:
Something we Belgiums even don't fully understand!

Note:
I vote for the German speaking population to also have an own government to make it easier to understand!! (hehe)
 
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@Izual Urashima

True!
Last months and previous time shows how true this is :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:
 
Didn't know it was mandatory in Belgium. That sucks. I really dislike such things being made mandatory - forced to go somewhere just to spoil something or proxy a vote... really rubs me the wrong way from a "do what you like as long as it is not harming others" standpoint.

Also no German special interest parties?

As far as mandatory ID.
I can see it going both ways.
Would it help? Sure.
Would I be inclined to force it to be a thing? Not a chance. Mandatory birth registration (and presumably enrolment in whatever state pensions scheme goes from that) by all means, taxes presumably follow along at some level, OK with voter registration as well (have something similar in the UK even if I skip it myself technically) but beyond that have official ID for those that want it (passport, driving test or same card but for those that don't care about driving), those that don't then don't have to worry.
That is not a failure of system but a system that values the option to do what you like from where I sit.
 
@FAST6191
The problem is: (what i find a problem)
- With our system the party with less votes can sit in the government
- The party with most votes can be set aside at the losing end
- The person with the most votes can be set aside and even not be in the new government,

In other words, it really doesn't matter what party or person you vote, in the end, all party's want to rule by forming coalitions until there coalition has the most seats, so all losing party's can rule and win in the end

For example (not excisting political party's)
- gbatemp: wins 38 seats
- djoen: wins 5 seats
- New 3DSXL wins 15 seats
- DSi: wins 20 seats
- GB Classic wins 12 seats
- GB Color wins 10 seats

gbatemp with DSi can form a new goverment and own 58 seats/100 - counter party has 42 seats/100
BUT DSi says, i don't want gbatemp so let's talk other party's

djoen wants in and says DSi let's do it and we need some extra seats, so let's bring in GB Classic and New 3DSXL and you can choose the prime minister, i just want the education seat for me!
djoen + New 3DSXL + DSi + GB Classic = 52 seats/100 = win win (close win)

So when the last option happens, those party's will choose the people to sit in the new government and that's fully decided by the party's, not by the people

So people with the less votes can sit in the government (doing nothing but cash in)

I'm in for a system
- The biggest party wins and has to make a new government with the second biggest party (unless the winning party has more then 50% seats
- The person with the most votes has to be prime minister

Note:
- If gbatemp owns 51 or more seats, there is no problem, but 51 is a close risky win
 
That sounds fairly similar to many places (UK has one almost exactly that, though coalitions are probably not as common*, Canada not so very far removed (though it has that weird no confidence things), Germany not so very different. Certainly would not view it as anything like unique to Belgium.

*give or take world war 2 there have been two in in what is practically living memory (there might be one or two 110+ types still out there to remember 1916 and 1922), or one and an agreement of support to make up the numbers and form a functioning parliament if you want to get technical. Albeit both of those in the last 10 years.
 
@Izual Urashima ouch...doesn't sound like a fun time, to be honest. Still...I can't help being curious to seeing it in practice (well...once the covid situation is over, obviously :) ).

Belgium works the best without any government.

I sort of hate to agree to this, but it's true. Things are too messy and a political cesspit...until an actual problem shows up: then everyone suddenly works together on the best possible solution.
That basically proves your point. It also proves that non-problems are stretched waaaaaaay too long if all parties benefit from disagreement (Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde, anyone? :rolleyes: ).


@DjoeN : I share your criticism of the current situation, but don't agree with your solution. If you ask me, it's either federalize everything (again) or split. I'm in favor of the former, but this patchwork of governments, local parties and division is going nowhere (again: until an actual problem comes along. But I want a government to deal with long term problems as well, not your local pandemic). Besides...N-VA and PS are the largest parties; They have tried to form a government how many times now? Three? I'd almost congratulate them, but you can't blame them for wanting a government that achieves something. And that's where they simply cannot reach an agreement.

It would open a can of worms, but I'd also wonder if other means of citizen participation beyond elections would help. Giving every person two votes for different parties, giving everyone a negative vote on top of their current...nowadays it's more like a race to see who can present themselves (and not even their plans) as being the least shady character.
 
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