Hacking Why are the VC releases relevant?

[Prophet]

I think I've missed the point of the recent surge of VC releases, or atleast I hope I have. To me the entire concept seems kind of asinine, why rip snes/nes/genisis or any games for consoles pre-N64, when you could emulate them? Are the VC releases to tide us over until the homebrew scene has produced said emulators for the wii, or is there some strange market for oversize, repackaged roms? I concede the N64 releases might be genuinely appreciated by many as emulation of the n64 on the wii would be problematic and possibly never as smooth as what Nintendo has already implemented. But shouldn't the focus be on cracking the channels to run any N64 rom put in place of the genuine one? Something like the psp's poploader would make sense. I've read of some progress in this regard, but admittedly haven't researched it much. What I really wonder is, if a development like this is made or the adequate emulators are released, will the VC flood come to a close or are these to become a mainstay of the scene? Maybe I'm just viewing this wrong, perhaps it's all for archival purposes? I don't know but, I can't shake the feeling that all of this VC stuff is going to put a squeeze on the wii scene with ramifications farther reaching than the simple annoyance of seeing them displayed on the main page.

Meh, my 2 cents.

 

[JJBro1]

well i bought 8 vc games before i even knew roms and emulators existed.

 

[2cb2ct7]

As has been stated many times already;

Scene releases are not for the benefit of the public.

The "scene" is a fairly abstract concept and you'd be forgiven for thinking that these release groups exist purely to serve you. They probably don't even care what you think of their "releases". Game dumps have more to do with preserving digital copies of any and all commercial releases (freely available to all) on the internet.

This is why "scene rules" dictate that scrubbed releases must nuked. That releases with incorrect nfo must be nuked. A scrubbed releases plays like an uncompressed release but it is not a true dump. An incorrect nfo does not make a game play any differently...

I really don't think the release groups care if you play their VC dumps or if you just use GCOS to load emulators. I don't think they care one little bit. What is done with the releases is irrelevant. It is all about dumping them for completeness and coming up with new ways to exploit the hardware.

 

[shtonkalot]

Was going to make a longer reply but I think 2cb2ct7 summed it up nicely.

There doesn't have to be a point that makes sense for you, or me. Unless you are ripping and dumping for "the scene" I can't see how it affects you at all.
There isn't a point in releasing PS3 ISOs for most. Almost every PS3 owner has no interest in owning them whilst they can't be played. Some people will still collect them waiting for that special day, others will obtain them to try tinker with. Some tinkerers don't even own a PS3.

So there is a point, or many reasons really to have them 'released'.

 

[Prophet]

Scene releases are not for the benefit of the public.

... Game dumps have more to do with preserving digital copies of any and all commercial releases (freely available to all) on the Internet.

Sorry if this has been covered in excess and thanks for trying to clear that up for me, but I'm still a bit confused. I previously conceded that these VC releases could serve some sort of archival purpose but it is a hard sell. I don't think anyone has much confidence in the longevity of these releases working, which is to say that no one can be sure that Nintendo won't find a way to fix this hole. In which case these releases become immediately nuked. In the long run a process will surely be found that is virtually undetectable or undeterred and these future releases will become the ones that are "archived." But is archiving for the purpose of archiving really anyones goal? Anything could be archived, for instance lets archive Internet ads. Lets gather and save them. From an intellectual stand point Internet ads would have just as much significance in the future as will these games. These ads would become a window into the psyche of the marketers and their targeted consumers. From this stand point the archiving of anything will bear some fruit of worth. But the scene is about archiving games for a reason. To ensure that they are "playable" to the masses of now and future.

One could argue that the scene does not exist to serve but I think thats kind of a silly. Read the .nfo of a highly anticipated release and you'll find gloats. Sometimes there are games that are released with the group knowing full and well that it will be nuked due to it being a beta, or something else. But they still release it, are we to think of these as some sort of bone simply thrown to us?

There seems to be a divide in the scene on one side there is a sense of archival purpose on the other side a bravado of sorts. This bravado stems directly from getting the the informed masses what they want before any one else can give it to them. If on the 29th a group finds its self with both a copy of GTA 4 and SNK Arcade Classics Volume 1 we all know which they would rip first. From an archival stand point this is ass backwards, you should rip SNK cause GTA will be widely available and surely ripped soon even if your group isn't the one to do so.

Further more, there have been a lot of games that have included roms with in them. I don't remember anyone trying to rip the NES games out of Animal crossing? This would of course be viewed as a dissection of a product and not as a viable release but that is precisely my argument. VC games are a part in parcel of the Nintendo wii umbrella. The only “virtual” rips that should be considered as anything more are apps and wii ware games as these are entity that exist solely (for the most part) on the wii alone. The only thing we should actively archive as far as VC games is the technique used to rip said games.

/end transmission before it evolves into a dissertation

 

[shtonkalot]

But is archiving for the purpose of archiving really anyones goal? Anything could be archived, for instance lets archive Internet ads. Lets gather and save them. Believe it or not people are doing just that. It's not perfect but archives usually aren't. You are correct that it has relevance to someone at least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive

One could argue that the scene does not exist to serve but I think thats kind of a silly. Read the .nfo of a highly anticipated release and you'll find gloats. Sometimes there are games that are released with the group knowing full and well that it will be nuked due to it being a beta, or something else. But they still release it, are we to think of these as some sort of bone simply thrown to us? I guess the point is it doesn't matter what you see it as or what the releaser (indvidual or group) intends. The scene has rules for this reason. It's not about intent it is about content.QUOTE

There seems to be a divide in the scene on one side there is a sense of archival purpose on the other side a bravado of sorts. This bravado stems directly from getting the the informed masses what they want before any one else can give it to them. If on the 29th a group finds its self with both a copy of GTA 4 and SNK Arcade Classics Volume 1 we all know which they would rip first.

That depends on the group and or individual. Release groups gain certain advantages from releasing certain material or being the first to do it. That has nothing to do with the rules of releasing though. Cops have to do their job but might not get a bravery award for catching the mob boss responsible for 100s of deaths compared to the nearly dead great grandma that he saved from the burning building, a bit abstract but it makes my point.

Your opinion is noted but it's not likely to change the status quo.
I too see many problems with the way the scene operates but as I'm not directly involved it makes little difference my opinion.

 

[Prophet]

I'm going to be completely honest, this was a really stupid posting on my part. The more I think about my initial feelings on the matter the more I realize that. I only posted because it's kind of annoying to see "silly" releases on the front page, usenet, trackers. Like spam kind of, because its irrelevant to me. It was self serving, my apologies. But the more I try to wrap my head around the bigger picture, the more i begin to see the depth of the issue. There is certainly some real meat here. I joked about a dissertation, but truthfully the subject could easily serve as a basis for one. So many intricacies in something we all take for granted sometimes. The comments were enlightening and although I have more questions now than before, you all have definitely helped open my eyes a bit; Thanks.

 

[drock360]

I don't think the Scene has anything to do with Wii Virtual Console games...

 

[ImpulsE69]

I've always considered the "scene rules" sort of a big joke. For many on the game side, regardless of how anyone tries to sugarcoat it, it IS simply a contest of who can release the most first. It's existed forever though and for the most part the rules have remained the same over the years, but lets face it, if they stopped, someone else would pick it up, they always do. People like myself, who collect, like some sort of order to it. No doubt you've seen "releases" on sites that are named something cryptic with no sense of what is actually in the file. It can be annoying. The VC dumps exist because at SOME point they are valid, and/or they may prove valid at a later time and the ones who dumped them get the credit.

 

[shtonkalot]

It was a good thing to bring up.
In my replies I may have sounded like I understand what's going on behind the SCENE, or at least like I believe I do. That is not the case. I was just putting out my perspective, much of which I hadn't thought about that much until your post challenged my thoughts.
Relevance is a difficult thing to ascertain especially when you are trying to do so for anyone that may be involved both now and later.
I guess VC games are both relevant and not. Depending on who you are.

 

[tatanga]

Yeah dude stop asking that question. Having free Mario Bros. in channel form is nice, even though most people can afford to pay $5 for it anyway. There doesn't need to be a reason, it's just that some like it better this way. I myself don't care for emulation anymore. I made a DVD full of SNES and Megadrive romsets for the Gamecube, and I've barely used it last generation. Yet, I downloaded a few VC titles. I probably just like the convenience and they work fine so why not?

Besides, I'd like to see you emulate the Opera browser and future WiiWare titles

 

[cherryduck]

I'm in full agreement with tatanga, I have a disc chock full of ROM's and yet having them in channel form seems somehow so much better. I never play the emulated ROM's from the disc, yet somehow the VC titles seem so much more fun, I can't really explain it but there's just more incentive to play if the channel is sitting there, and it's also better if I'm not overwhelmed by a huge game list. In this way I sort of prefer VC and oddly enough I'd rather it doesn't get hacked so we can use whatever ROM we'd like, then it makes it up to Nintendo what is available and I'm more likely to play. If any of that makes sense...

 

[Brownstone]

Very simple. You got a wii channel for each game, u dont have to insert a DVD or anything. It comes with a nice save function and manual.

What I'm hoping for in terms of emulator for Wii is a channel for each console, N64, Snes, Nes etc that has the function to load roms from the SD-card.