Good discussion and opinions, although many of them are very common concerns with regards to digital and used. I'd like to bring something up though. I'm seeing the term "cloud" being tossed around left and right. People tend to do that with buzzwords without actually understanding what they mean. What everyone seems to be talking about is digital distribution, and not actual cloud gaming. OnLive is cloud gaming. Services like Xbox Live Games on Demand and Steam are not. The primary difference between the two is whether the game is stored on a local machine or not. This is not the case with OnLive, which is why the service is considered cloud gaming. However, with Steam, the Nintendo eShop, etc., games are stored locally- you download them onto your computer's hard drive (or memory stick, etc.). This is not cloud gaming. It's simply a way for publishers and developers to get the game to you, without a CD/DVD. Also, although you usually require an Internet connection to access you games on both services, OnLive requires a constant connection to play whereas Steam only requires a connection to log in.
Used Games Sales and the Future: Still Needed?
- Thread starter Ryukouki
- Start date
- Views 9,159
- Replies 98
Hm, fair enough! I will take that into consideration next time I approach the subject. Thanks for your feedback thus far, everyone.
Whenever the discussion of gamestop comes around I usually have to throw out a phrase like "something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it", it looks like this thread will also be one of those times. Alternatively as far as supporting the game industry it could be seen as justifying prices of games being what they are by giving them a measure of retained value.
I download the game from the internet, in many cases I can also download it wherever I may be, I fire it across to friends via similar methods, my saves may well be stored remotely, if I am playing multiplayer there is likely so serious remote processing going and there is the ever present concept of metrics.
Now if I was going to make a case between thin client vs fat client I would be using arguments like yours, as far as cloud goes, despite cloud being about as nebulous a term as there ever was, I can not get there.
Out of all the games I have, only 4 or so were bought used and it was because I couldn't get them new anywhere else. The price difference between a new game and a used game is minimum, a new game over here costs in the 45€, whereas a used game costs around 30 to 35€, for that difference I'd much rather pay the 45€.
Another thing is that I enjoy having games on their release day, which makes me pre-order most of the games I want (besides, I end up saving money due to amazon's pre-order price guarantee).
Another thing is that I enjoy having games on their release day, which makes me pre-order most of the games I want (besides, I end up saving money due to amazon's pre-order price guarantee).
15 euro difference is a lot
the only downside of used games (for me) is actually paying shipping cost.
there are no gamestop here, but even without it, human will always try to trade for something and get a better deal.
even if it's digital, I've seen so much people selling their account (Steam/xbox/psn/mmo games).
the only downside of used games (for me) is actually paying shipping cost.
there are no gamestop here, but even without it, human will always try to trade for something and get a better deal.
even if it's digital, I've seen so much people selling their account (Steam/xbox/psn/mmo games).
Doesn't necessarily have to be a Gamestop store. It could be any used retailer that is in your area. I was just using GameStop as an example of sorts, there are plenty of other examples.
This question is moot, in the future used game sales and cloud gaming will be integrated into one and you will be able to resell your digital games.
That said I don't think sales of physical copies of any sort will die out as long as you don't have the ability to lend your digital copies to a friend or resell them.
That said I don't think sales of physical copies of any sort will die out as long as you don't have the ability to lend your digital copies to a friend or resell them.
In most cases I tend to save 12£ which is 20$. Since I get games with pre-orders around 22£ and their release price ends up being 34£.I'm always saving $0.03.
Used games are still going to be needed, especially when you consider the alternatives as of current.
Given the ubiquity of Gamestop, and the draconian DRM that has become the norm rather than the exception, the used game market for PC's of any kind (or OS) has effectively been killed for anything that is not more than several years old, or by some miracle does not require some kind of convoluted activation system to run. I think the last game that I came across for PC that did not need some kind of serial/activation limit was oddly enough Mass Effect 2. Instead, that game rather limits you in terms of the appropriate DLC that would be available if you got the disc second-hand. At the least you could play the core game, though. And as we see there, for many it's a forgone conclusion that PC gaming isn't relevant to them. Entire genres are not even acknowledged or available on the platform. The last actual sports game that I am aware of even being available for PC was Madden 2000... which I stress was more than a decade ago. The last fighting game that got any announcement or press of even existing for PC was vanilla Street Fighter 4. I didn't even know that SF X Tekken was ever released for PC until someone pointed it out to me on Steam.
Yet comparatively, at the least used games can keep someone being able to at least try to find a hidden gem or an overlooked game that they weren't able to get while it was still in print. This is especially true for systems and platforms that were around before the ability to even download and retain games was even possible. For systems like this especially, the ability to at least be able to find a copy second-hand is not only valuable, but could very well be mandatory in my opinion.
That's also one of the reasons that I personally hate Gamestops... their obnoxious attitude about what they choose to carry or not, and the kind of insane markups is stressful, in the kindest way I can put it. They won't take guides, pc games, and you're SOL if you want anything from less than the current-gen. They didn't even give the Dreamcast 24 hours after Sega's announcement to exit the hardware business before they just stopped carrying or accepting anything for the system, even though there were still games in the pipeline to be released for it.
Digital would be a way to at least preserve the availability for classics and particularly good games in one way, but it's not without its problems either. One of the many problems is of course the fact that the servers needed to access them could just up and die. The original Xbox was one of the first consoles to have the ability to actually download full games from a technical standpoint. But as we all know by now, Microsoft pulled the plug on the ability for those systems to access the network years ago. I would fully expect the same for the 360 now that the X1 is out; obviously not know, but you'd be a fool to think they won't sooner or later.
The other problem with digital, especially for any non-PC platform, is the fact that the marketplace seems to completely ignore the fact that many consumers know that it doesn't cost them as much to offer it digitally as it would be to put it on a physical medium. So without some kind of cost savings, there is no incentive to get it digitally. I certainly would rather hunt at the chance to get GTA Vice City for $10 on disc than to spend $40 to get it as "games on demand" on the xbox, and so on. Nintendo will still charge the same amount (with sales tax!) to get the same game digitally... but then if I don't like the game, I'm stuck. There's no way to 'return' it to at least maybe put the credit toward a better game. I feel more aggravated with the $3 I spent for that awful dream radar 'app' than the $30 I paid for Project X Zone. While I couldn't do this as much growing up, one other thing I did appreciate was being able to share and let a friend borrow a game or borrow one of theirs on a physical copy. That's something that you still can't do with digital no matter who it's from.
I could go on, and that's part of the problem... for me this is a hugely weighted topic with a lot of history, and as of this time I don't have enough time to extrapolate on it properly.
Given the ubiquity of Gamestop, and the draconian DRM that has become the norm rather than the exception, the used game market for PC's of any kind (or OS) has effectively been killed for anything that is not more than several years old, or by some miracle does not require some kind of convoluted activation system to run. I think the last game that I came across for PC that did not need some kind of serial/activation limit was oddly enough Mass Effect 2. Instead, that game rather limits you in terms of the appropriate DLC that would be available if you got the disc second-hand. At the least you could play the core game, though. And as we see there, for many it's a forgone conclusion that PC gaming isn't relevant to them. Entire genres are not even acknowledged or available on the platform. The last actual sports game that I am aware of even being available for PC was Madden 2000... which I stress was more than a decade ago. The last fighting game that got any announcement or press of even existing for PC was vanilla Street Fighter 4. I didn't even know that SF X Tekken was ever released for PC until someone pointed it out to me on Steam.
Yet comparatively, at the least used games can keep someone being able to at least try to find a hidden gem or an overlooked game that they weren't able to get while it was still in print. This is especially true for systems and platforms that were around before the ability to even download and retain games was even possible. For systems like this especially, the ability to at least be able to find a copy second-hand is not only valuable, but could very well be mandatory in my opinion.
That's also one of the reasons that I personally hate Gamestops... their obnoxious attitude about what they choose to carry or not, and the kind of insane markups is stressful, in the kindest way I can put it. They won't take guides, pc games, and you're SOL if you want anything from less than the current-gen. They didn't even give the Dreamcast 24 hours after Sega's announcement to exit the hardware business before they just stopped carrying or accepting anything for the system, even though there were still games in the pipeline to be released for it.
Digital would be a way to at least preserve the availability for classics and particularly good games in one way, but it's not without its problems either. One of the many problems is of course the fact that the servers needed to access them could just up and die. The original Xbox was one of the first consoles to have the ability to actually download full games from a technical standpoint. But as we all know by now, Microsoft pulled the plug on the ability for those systems to access the network years ago. I would fully expect the same for the 360 now that the X1 is out; obviously not know, but you'd be a fool to think they won't sooner or later.
The other problem with digital, especially for any non-PC platform, is the fact that the marketplace seems to completely ignore the fact that many consumers know that it doesn't cost them as much to offer it digitally as it would be to put it on a physical medium. So without some kind of cost savings, there is no incentive to get it digitally. I certainly would rather hunt at the chance to get GTA Vice City for $10 on disc than to spend $40 to get it as "games on demand" on the xbox, and so on. Nintendo will still charge the same amount (with sales tax!) to get the same game digitally... but then if I don't like the game, I'm stuck. There's no way to 'return' it to at least maybe put the credit toward a better game. I feel more aggravated with the $3 I spent for that awful dream radar 'app' than the $30 I paid for Project X Zone. While I couldn't do this as much growing up, one other thing I did appreciate was being able to share and let a friend borrow a game or borrow one of theirs on a physical copy. That's something that you still can't do with digital no matter who it's from.
I could go on, and that's part of the problem... for me this is a hugely weighted topic with a lot of history, and as of this time I don't have enough time to extrapolate on it properly.
I'm a proponent of used game sales. First off, they provide a competition to new games helping to drive down the costs as time goes. They also provide incentive to game makers to give their games lasting value; if someone thinks the game is worth keeping, it won't find it's way to the used game market. There's the obvious part where used games will allow people to buy and experience games they otherwise did not have the money to purchase.
One thing, however, that people often neglect, is who is selling these used games in the first place, and I'm not talking Gamestop. I mean the original purchasers of the game new; the people who put money into the pockets of the game makers. Even they only have so much money to purchase new games, and when they sell their games, it provides them with the money to buy more new games, thus the money from used game sales does indirectly bring a piece back to the game makers.
The most important thing, though, for me, is the freedom to do as we please with what we own.
One thing, however, that people often neglect, is who is selling these used games in the first place, and I'm not talking Gamestop. I mean the original purchasers of the game new; the people who put money into the pockets of the game makers. Even they only have so much money to purchase new games, and when they sell their games, it provides them with the money to buy more new games, thus the money from used game sales does indirectly bring a piece back to the game makers.
The most important thing, though, for me, is the freedom to do as we please with what we own.
*Looks at Adobe* Nope, I'll be sticking with physical items. The cloud might appear light at first, but then thunder clouds start forming and then normally that very same day, those clouds start pouring rain on the earth. Hopefully it won't rain so much that places get flooded, but still.
If a game isn't in its shrinkwrap, then it's used. Now there are people out there who take excellent care of them and make sure they don't get scuffed up (I am such a person) and this is the way it's supposed to be. But I buy used games because I want as large a library as possible while still keeping money in my bank account. Buying games for $50 tends to get expensive real quick.
If a game isn't in its shrinkwrap, then it's used. Now there are people out there who take excellent care of them and make sure they don't get scuffed up (I am such a person) and this is the way it's supposed to be. But I buy used games because I want as large a library as possible while still keeping money in my bank account. Buying games for $50 tends to get expensive real quick.
Sorry for being that guy, but next gen gaming was here like a year ago with the Wii U.
Anyways, no. I think that used games and stuff like that should stay. With cloud gaming you have to pay for your internet, the game and what not but with a used game you can get it without needing internet.
Not to mention that people in developing countries that have shitty internet (been there, done that.) can't download anything at 54kb/s.
Anyways, no. I think that used games and stuff like that should stay. With cloud gaming you have to pay for your internet, the game and what not but with a used game you can get it without needing internet.
Not to mention that people in developing countries that have shitty internet (been there, done that.) can't download anything at 54kb/s.
Like it or not, physical copies are on their way out, and I'm looking forward to the day they die out completely.
What happens when you loose or can't find your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when you scratch your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when a natural or artificial event destroys your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when you're travelling? You're baggage fee is screwed.
What happens when people buy used games? Developers are screwed.
What happens when you want to dispose of old games or broken games? The environment is screwed.
What happens when you want to quickly find a game from your large collection? Your time is screwed.
Buying a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, $10 charged from credit card (Steam sale), wait a while, play
Physical: Drive to store, try to find game, sold out, fail to find game, drive to different store, find game, buy game for $50, drive back, play
Pirating a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, wait a while, install crack, play
Physical: Nope.avi
Getting a game on launch day:
Digital: Wait in the warmth of your home
Physical: Wait in the cold outside the store
And if you want DRM-free digital games, try GOG.com
What happens when you loose or can't find your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when you scratch your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when a natural or artificial event destroys your disc? You're screwed.
What happens when you're travelling? You're baggage fee is screwed.
What happens when people buy used games? Developers are screwed.
What happens when you want to dispose of old games or broken games? The environment is screwed.
What happens when you want to quickly find a game from your large collection? Your time is screwed.
Buying a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, $10 charged from credit card (Steam sale), wait a while, play
Physical: Drive to store, try to find game, sold out, fail to find game, drive to different store, find game, buy game for $50, drive back, play
Pirating a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, wait a while, install crack, play
Physical: Nope.avi
Getting a game on launch day:
Digital: Wait in the warmth of your home
Physical: Wait in the cold outside the store
And if you want DRM-free digital games, try GOG.com
"What happens when you loose or can't find your disc? You're screwed."
Possibly.
"What happens when you scratch your disc? You're screwed."
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/sy...?menu=general_info&submenu=wup-repair-gi-disc
http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-360/games/disc-replacement-program
http://help.ea.com/uk/article/ea-uk-warranty-policy
"What happens when a natural or artificial event destroys your disc? You're screwed."
Flood, fire, lightning and more insurance exists.
"What happens when you're travelling? You're baggage fee is screwed."
There is insurance here as well.
"What happens when people buy used games? Developers are screwed."
Do elaborate. There are no more copies of the game out there than they originally released.
"What happens when you want to dispose of old games or broken games? The environment is screwed."
I must admit I have not looked into disc recycling. One search later
http://www.startuk.org/at-home/recycling-a-z/cds-and-dvds.aspx
"What happens when you want to quickly find a game from your large collection? Your time is screwed."
That is what we call reaching, still this is why we have a system. Or a system.
"Buying a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, $10 charged from credit card (Steam sale), wait a while, play
Physical: Drive to store, try to find game, sold out, fail to find game, drive to different store, find game, buy game for $50, drive back, play"
Really? I tend click a button on amazon myself. Similarly a trip to the second hand shop is interesting to see what I might actually find.
"Pirating a new game:
Digital: Click mouse, wait a while, install crack, play
Physical: Nope.avi"
Do game rentals not exist any more? Borrowing it from a friend and copying it manually?
"Getting a game on launch day:
Digital: Wait in the warmth of your home
Physical: Wait in the cold outside the store"
Again I click on a button on Amazon and depending upon the postal system I may even be playing it pre release and if not by the time I return to the house. Of course this is assuming I am fool enough to play something before at least the first round of bug patches.
Spoken like someone that hadn't touched a video game system since before downloading was even possible.
As a card-carrying member of the IGDA, even developers in the field and making games now don't think much of the used games somehow "screwing them". The only ones that were even aware that was some kind of issue were those that worked for studios that also published the games.
Here's a simple way to keep it in mind. Publisher : Developer as RIAA : musicians. Or did you not even take your SAT's? The content of your post makes me think you're not old enough to do so.
Probably about the one thing PC has a leg up on consoles. At the least you could simply re-download and burn the ISO at that point if the manufacturer won't help. Long as you got the case proving your purchase.
Scratched disc? There are ways to repair those discs now... even BluRays. Not free, but available... somewhere. I suppose the trick is knowing of a place that can do it. If I still lived on the east coast, I might have agreed with you. Gamestops make it seem like there's no other choice... but that just makes it all the more liberating when you can find an alternative, because chances are they will have this service.
there is insurance to help reimburse the costs to find replacement.
Uh, one simple way is to secure it or don't bring it there. That's one incentive to mod your consoles anyway... that way instead of bringing those precious discs around for TSA to manhandle, you just bring the external drive to load them up from.
Oh, I'd love to hear how you plan on substantiating this claim. I've yet to read/hear one single explanation that made any amount of sense, and the only ones speaking so vehemently against it are usually publishers rather than any actual developer.
As a card-carrying member of the IGDA, even developers in the field and making games now don't think much of the used games somehow "screwing them". The only ones that were even aware that was some kind of issue were those that worked for studios that also published the games.
Here's a simple way to keep it in mind. Publisher : Developer as RIAA : musicians. Or did you not even take your SAT's? The content of your post makes me think you're not old enough to do so.
Why would you want to dispose of an old game as long as it works? Not to mention there are people - clearly more skilled than you - capable of repairing most such 'broken' games. Most cartridge games can be easily restored to function and form with some disassembly and cleaning. A disc game might need a resurfacing (or few) to get working again... and with the right tools you could then do repairs that would afflict the majority of systems. Only some more serious problems would need more advanced hardware, which has only really started being a problem with the more recent generations of consoles.
Okay, seriously, how *expletive* spoiled are you that you actually consider looking through your game collection a chore?
Your digital one falls apart the moment you factor in things like:
- Internet data caps
- Less-than-perfect internet connection
- Possibly a dialup connection, or satellite
- Lack of credit card, for some
- You yourself can't seem to decide whether we're talking about PC's or consoles
Looks like someone hasn't heard of:
- CD/DVD/Bluray burners
- flashcards/carts
- console modifications
- daemon tools or Alcohol 52%
Or, you could not be a prototypical neck-beard and just pick it up at a more convenient hour, like when you happen to be in the area of a preferred store.
What if a digital game got delisted? It happens frequently. What then?
Publishers offer disc exchange for scratched discs.
Predicting future is a stupid idea. A place could crash right into my house and I die along with it. Someone could've detonate an EMP bomb that knocks off all electronic devices. Anything thing could've happen in the next moment.
All I can say is, take better care of your discs. If disc is damaged, blame it on yourselves, not the market.
A true video game aficionado shouldn't let these be a problem. Apparently you are not. You can ship ahead, go backup, or simply don't bring them alone.
Dude, the only people who objects to used market is publisher, not developers. Developers already got their pay check when they signed an agreement with the publisher.
Beside, if you want to object to used market you better start with rental service and even public library. Neither of them gives publisher any money so we should outlaw rental service and close down public library, right?
What happens when you want to dispose old PC components, old console, old electronics, old cellphone, etc? If you really care about environment you can ship discs to specialized recycle facility.
If you organize your stuff well, this ain't be a problem.
How about you go to Amazon.com and buy a physical games? That way you don't need to drive out and game will reach your mailbox.
And you were worry about developers/publisher not getter their share of money because of used market? Piracy doesn't give them money either. Facepalm.
Many physical pre-orders will ship early so that by launch date it'll reach your house.
Furthermore, out of entire US population only 28% as of 2012 has individual broadband Internet subscription. This makes digital only distribution not practical for home console, movies, etc where size often goes for 3 GB and more. Many Americans are content with wireless broadband Internet. Some are forced to use dial up. Some didn't sign up for an Internet plan at all, relying on public Internet or workplace Internet instead.
thats probably why cloud services like that fade into obscurity, they were just plain shit and nobody wanted to use them and they've kept being shit till the bitter end
but i don't think that same will happen with Steam anytime soon, they've already have so much support from all goodwill they've generated within their community, also their legendary sales don't hurt either
The problem with this post is everything. You're talking about the absolute worst case scenarios of everything.
Not all games go on insane sales on Steam.
And why can't you wait? What does it matter to you? You're already at that point. Oh well, let's be honest, when physical copies go away.. there's going to be a lot less gamers.
Similar threads
-
- Portal
-
- Portal
- No one is chatting at the moment.
-
@
Psionic Roshambo:
I wonder if they could get CPUs to run that hot then use the heat to power a steam turbine to power the CPUs.... -
-
@
Psionic Roshambo:
It's not the movies or games downloads that I would worry about, like breaking into networks, downloading encrypted things, spying on network traffic. I have seen so many "Top Secret" seals on files when I was a kid
-
@
Psionic Roshambo:
I was obsessed with finding UFOs, a surprising amount of US files where stashed on computers in other countries, China back in the early 90s omg sooo much
-
@
BigOnYa:
Yea that crazy, I've never tried hack into anything, I just pirate, and my ISP have send me 3-4 letters, so had to VPN it -
@
Psionic Roshambo:
Ship to ship communication software for the Navy although without access to the encrypting chips it was mostly useless
-
@
Psionic Roshambo:
I bet now a 4090 could probably crack it? Hmmm maybe not even back then I'm pretty sure they where using like 1024 bit encryption
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
@
Psionic Roshambo:
I remember one time I downloaded like a 500MB ISO file on 56K and that literally took like 2 days
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
