US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[jimbo13]

I love when you try to use the term "demonstrably false" while saying something demonstrably false. Birtherism started during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign, with conservative origins, but didn't get a lot of national attention. Some Clinton supporters sent some emails about it that originated from the aforementioned 2004 bullshit, but it didn't get a lot of national attention either. After he was elected president, birtherism among conservatives soared similar to Q anon conspiracy theories today (lots of the same people, I imagine), and it was championed by Donald Trump, and he used it to put the national spotlight on himself. He willfully became the face of birtherism. It's what got him into the political arena.

Regardless of how it started, it was racist conspiracy theory nonsense, and Trump was gleefully the poster child for it. Obama didn't dignify it with the birth certificate they were demanding for years.

Demonstrably false. Obama in response to the birtherism claims addressed the issue April 27, 2011 at 8:57 AM with a statement including the publishing of his long form Birth Certificate. Years before Trump was a candidate.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.

Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.

If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.

You are uptight and delusional, also a Warmonger as evident by your continued support of a warmonger like Biden who has never voted against or opposed a war in his life.

 

[Lacius]

As we've seen today, it would have happened regardless. He also lowered the troop count to 2,500 after the election, which made it easier for them to take over today. But at the same time, having less troops in preparation to withdraw made it hopefully slightly easier to get out today.


Nobody really wanted to pull the trigger on that one. It would have looked bad for anyone. If Trump was re-elected, I would expect that this would be happening today (Or earlier based on the original negotiation). Unfortunately that honor has fallen on Biden, since it was basically already set.

“there is no gracious way to lose a war”

It's possible Trump would have withdrawn, but I have my doubts. He was escalating military conflicts in the middle east, and he had four years to officially withdraw without doing so. Biden was apparently the only one with the guts to actually do it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Demonstrably false. Obama in response to the birtherism claims addressed the issue April 27, 2011 at 8:57 AM with a statement including the publishing of his long form Birth Certificate. Years before Trump was a candidate.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



You are uptight and delusional, also a Warmonger as evident by your continued support of a warmonger like Biden who has never voted against or opposed a war in his life.

I'm a little less surprised you're a Trump supporter now. You apparently skipped everything before 2015.

His time in the national political spotlight preceded his run for the presidency by years, marred with racist and vitriolic birtherism. Obama largely ignored the birtherism for years, not wanting to dignify it with a response, until he finally released his birth certificate around 2011 and then humiliated Trump at the White House Correspondent's dinner with him in attendance.

Getting back to my original point, those years Obama ignored the racist birtherism without releasing his birth certificate wasn't evidence that it was real.

Edit: In response to the latter part of your post, which I missed, people on the right side of an argument don't normally need to resort to personal attacks.

 

[ChronoTrig]

If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.

Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.

If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.

I have responded to your posts until you continued to deflect or ask a question rather than respond. It was becoming kind of moot. You twist things. I honestly still believe you troll people in what you say is a very serious topic with serious posts when you're continually just spouting or saying things in the same manner.
You do come across as crass and I hope you're able to see the light some day of both sides of republican and democrat rather than just super hard left delusional. I've come to realize as people have stated before that it's pointless to respond to you with facts or actuals because you twist them in your own commentary like you've done and shown with my previous posts.
Good day.

Oh, and this isn't an omission of defeat by you, since I know you get off to shit like that and fap about it cause you're weird, it's simply I'm not trying to explain things to someone who's delusional.

 

[titan_tim]

It's possible Trump would have withdrawn, but I have my doubts. He was escalating military conflicts in the middle east, and he had four years to officially withdraw without doing so. Biden was apparently the only one with the guts to actually do it.

Yep, it definitely takes guts to know that this was going to be a shitshow, and you know you still need to get it over with.

I wouldn't write off Trump as someone who didn't have guts though. I also thought it took guts to talk to Kim Jung Un (Not the falling in love part though, that was just....weird). He was more of a gutsy type which acted first and thought of the consequences later. Biden is more the type to think of the consequences first, and then acts.

But luckily/unfortunately we don't have the ability to go on what if situations.

 

[jimbo13]

If a person supports a politician who is demonstrably anti-LGBT (see my post above for how), then support for that politician is anti-LGBT. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

Edit: In response to the latter part of your post, which I missed, people on the right side of an argument don't normally need to resort to personal attacks.

If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,

If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted for or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.

 

[Lacius]

I have responded to your posts until you continued to deflect or ask a question rather than respond. It was becoming kind of moot. You twist things. I honestly still believe you troll people in what you say is a very serious topic with serious posts when you're continually just spouting or saying things in the same manner.
You do come across as crass and I hope you're able to see the light some day of both sides of republican and democrat rather than just super hard left delusional. I've come to realize as people have stated before that it's pointless to respond to you with facts or actuals because you twist them in your own commentary like you've done and shown with my previous posts.
Good day.

Your post consists of little more than personal attacks and what appears to be an argument to moderation fallacy, so I would agree our conversation is rather pointless.

If there's something you said that you don't feel like I adequately addresses, and you'd like to have a good-faith conversation about it, please repeat it and tag me in the post. While I sometimes miss things, I believe I responded appropriately to each of your points.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,

If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.

1. I openly disagree with some of Biden's foreign policy votes (e.g. the Iraq War vote). I wouldn't call everyone who voted for that war a warmonger, however. Many were tricked by the Bush administration.
2. Biden was part of the administration that ended that war, however, and I agreed with it. The Republican alternatives apparently wanted to stay in the region indefinitely, so I don't regret my vote.
3. In case you have not noticed, Biden is ending our presence in Afghanistan, which I support.

Edit: The Democratic side is generally the less warmongering side, FYI.

 

[Haloman800]

[snip]

When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)

 

[Kunty]

When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)

It's a bit unnecessary to take the piss out of him for something he can't control. It was quite transparent as to why Biden was even put forward by the Democratic party anyway. As a centrist he can appeal to both left and right people and then someone like Kamala would be able to slide in. There's been far too much conservatism in the world so it's about time for some more left.

 

[Lacius]

When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)

I don't think anybody's surprised that you added nothing it substance to the conversation. Make sure you tag me if/when that changes.

 

[jimbo13]

It's a bit unnecessary to take the piss out of him for something he can't control. It was quite transparent as to why Biden was even put forward by the Democratic party anyway. As a centrist he can appeal to both left and right people and then someone like Kamala would be able to slide in. There's been far too much conservatism in the world so it's about time for some more left.

No it's very necessary, he slings all kinds of shit for politicians other people support. He supported Biden knowing full well of what his war record was and he has never given anyone else a pass when they denounced individual policies.

Suddenly virtue warrior wants to claim nuance, were all enjoying it.

 

[Kunty]

No it's very necessary, he slings all kinds of shit for politicians other people support. He supported Biden knowing full well of what his war record was and he has never given anyone else a pass when they denounced individual policies.

Suddenly virtue warrior wants to claim nuance, were all enjoying it.

Thing is Biden was the lesser of 2 evils. I don't think Biden is any good, but Trump was completely vile. I think in general it's important to hold the person you voted for accountable. But taking the piss out of a mental health issue that Biden may or may not have isn't the one.

 

[Xzi]

Isolated incidents of mentally ill individuals who most likely were on serotonin reuptake inhibitors which has been the case in nearly every spree shooting that has ever taken place is not equivalent to broad terrorist organizations.

You could make the exact same excuse for every Muslim who carried out a terrorist act as an individual. The bottom line is that these ideologies are radicalizing people, and while we shouldn't generalize Abrahamic religions as extremist, specific denominations within them are undeniably problematic. Westboro Bapist Church is an obvious example of this.

It's the fucking it all up, even after he extended the timeline for doing so by months, that has people upset. And it was definitely, very royally fucked up.

In what way could Biden have possibly changed the outcome? Under the Trump administration's agreement, the country was promised to the Taliban in exchange for safe withdrawal of US personnel. There have been no reported casualties of US personnel. The only way Afghani personnel could've been better protected during withdrawal is if the Afghani government/military had stood up for itself. And if they weren't willing to do that after twenty years of US support and training, they were never going to do it.

 

[jimbo13]

Thing is Biden was the lesser of 2 evils. I don't think Biden is any good, but Trump was completely vile. I think in general it's important to hold the person you voted for accountable. But taking the piss out of a mental health issue that Biden may or may not have isn't the one.

Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism. At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.

Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.

Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.

 

[Lacius]

Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism. At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.

Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.

Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.

I've posted numerous times about how Trump escalated preexisting wars, increased drone strikes, increased civilian deaths, and tried to hide civilian death numbers. I have also posted about Trump's dumbass deals with the Taliban that contributed greatly to the current situation in Afghanistan.

If your position depends on you ignoring these facts, it probably isn't a position worth holding onto.

 

[Xzi]

Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.

You can call him a warmonger until your face turns blue, it doesn't change the fact that his actions as president so far don't reflect that. He's pulled us out of one conflict and hasn't started any new ones, which is something you praised Trump for just a few sentences earlier. I shouldn't have to point out the hypocrisy there.

Additionally, Trump only flip-flopped on support of the wars after mainstream support for them began to fade. He's a star-fucker and an opportunist, which is why he even called himself a Democrat back then.

 

[jimbo13]

I've posted numerous times about how Trump escalated preexisting wars, increased drone strikes, increased civilian deaths, and tried to hide civilian death numbers. I have also posted about Trump's dumbass deals with the Taliban that contributed greatly to the current situation in Afghanistan.

If your position depends on you ignoring these facts, it probably isn't a position worth holding onto.

Those aren't facts, those are your subjective partisan opinions.

Votes and signatures are facts, Biden has never expressed opposition to any military conflict.

 

[Kunty]

Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism. At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.

Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.

Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.

Yeah brill Trump didn't support wars and Biden did. Trump did however rape plenty of women, supported illegal measures against his own people to control the BLM movement, had 4 years to withdraw US troops but elected not to in favour of making deals with the Taliban and embarrassed himself when he lost the election. He may not have supported the wars but he sure as hell would have benefited off of them just like any politician. As I said Biden was the lesser of 2 evils, that doesn't excuse his incompetence however.

 

[Lacius]

Those aren't facts, those are your subjective partisan opinions.

No, they're facts.

Votes and signatures are facts, Biden has never expressed opposition to any military conflict.

He's literally withdrawing from Afghanistan as we speak, lol.

 

[jimbo13]

No, they're facts.


He's literally withdrawing from Afghanistan as we speak, lol.

Well get back to me when he decides if it was his decision to do so or he was locked in to Trumps withdrawal. That's probably going to be dependent on how much carnage his incompetence caused.

 

[SyphenFreht]

If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,

If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted for or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.

And if a person supports a racist like Trump who voted for or supported every racist- based law, injunction, bill, what have you, that has been before him that is being a racist. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

And now, let the obligatory personal attacks and/or subsequent rants about ignoring me because it's harder to prove Trump isn't at least a closet racist than a paragon for the American people. At least Trump backed his sentiment toward the minority groups by running Republican this latest time.