Gaming Isn't Wii supposed to be cheaper ?

The_Cylon_Surfer

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Well Mr Vampire Hunter D, I like my Wii, I dont love it.... IMO there are not many more than 3 good Wii Games. The 3 I personally like are


Mario Galaxy
Resident Evil 4
Zelda TP

Everything else I have played has been half assed. Not Nintendo's fault maybe...But all the same half baked shitty games. And sorry I am NOT including games from previous systems which are now available on the Wii online service, I am not including NGC games - this is good thing in my eyes the NGC was a failed system and backward compatibility for games other than mario sunshine and mario kart is a complete waste of time.


I hope to dear god that the Wii picks up soon but the way I see it, racing games using the wiimote on it side as to mimmick a wheel are impossible or at the very least shit to play. This gives me serious 2nd thoughts about mario kart - i'm just hoping for classic controller support. As the Wii has demostrated to us all - the control system cannot deliver unless you call me waving my wiimote around and the on screen character doing a pre defined move in no relation to my guesturing to be good!

The Wii is a gimmick - the next 6 - 12 months will prove this. Its currently over rated and its lack of real games will be its downfall
 

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Let's put it this way: if you think Wii is "too expensive", then the Wii isn't for you. If you're comparing the Wii to other consoles, then the Wii isn't for you.

Get the Wii only if you know exactly what you want from an entertainment system, and that the Wii can provide it. If you can't decide on what it is you really want, get something else.
 

The_Cylon_Surfer

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Sorry but i do not agree. Most people buy a Wii because of the wiimote controller and how Nintendo claimed it "would" work. In reality the Wiimote does not function in this manor. I was very excited to get my Wii on the UK Launch day, I loaded up Zelda for the 1st time and yes it was great BUT the wiimote swinging did not make link swing his sword in the same way during game play but merely emulated a simple button press. I eagerly purchased Red Steel for some kick ass sword fights and gun battles...if you can call that a sword fighting the well, your retarded. As of yet I am yet to see the wiimote function in any other way than a button press or add on motion pack (yoshi gravity type thing) would do equally as well. I am yet to see anything ground breaking on the wii and the gfx most of the time although not the most important thing in a game, look quite bad. I have a HD TV and the Wii looks really bad on it. So yes in my eyes it should be cheaper. Every Wii owner I speak with pretty much agrees - the Wii is a gimmick and sales in japan are starting to show us this.

From what i see the wiimote is unable to do much more than what we have seen so far. It hardly works in real time - anyone can see the lag between you moving and a on screen character movement. With this in mind I fail to see how any of the games we all dreamed would come from such a ground breaking control device will ever happen. I do hear that the star wars light saber game is still in the works but i cringe to think about how bad it will really be.

Maybe and please don't hate me for this, the Wii should have been a NGC add on. However do i see why Nintendo needed to release a so called next gen system. Its just a shame how the customer has to pay for this when it could have so easily have been a add on for the NGC and cost £50 - £100 .

Maybe future titles will change my mind and stop my Wii from gathering dust after I beat SMG..somehow I doubt it.
 

The_Cylon_Surfer

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QUOTE said:
I think he is bitchin because he has a PAL Wii.


LMAO
rofl2.gif
How do you come to that conclusion?? I have modded Wii and have all of the "top" titles currently available....I suggest you try reading my post again. You seem to have missed the point.

QUOTEYou didn't like Metroid Prime? I don't necesarrily disagree with your point, just curious.


I just have'nt got round to playing this yet. To be honest Call of Duty and Red Steel put me off fps titles on the Wii. I feel this this is such ashame as my initial feelings towards the wii were that it would make one hell of a fps gaming system. As i mentioned before tho, the wiimote does not do as nintendo claimed it would. I spent a lot of my wii fps experiences "spinning" around when i try to aim at a enemy far to the left or right of the screen...Just a mess really. If however you feel that Metroid, baring in mind that its a true nintendo title has resolved these issues then yes, I will give it go and see how it is.

The games I have listed are all great and have made me happy with my purchase but I am yet to see anything revolutionary from the system. Maybe thats why they dropped the "Revolution" name tag... Lets face it, both Mario Galaxy and Zelda TP could have (and in Zelda's case) been just as good on the old NGC. RE4 on the other hand I feel greatly benefited from the wiimote, however I do believe this could have been achieved on the PS2 with the aid of the light gun attachment...
 

The_Cylon_Surfer

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QUOTE said:
Hmmm defensive...

I'm not about to get into a flame war with you young sir. I really feel that you have not read my post. If you had then I fail to see how how the PAL region of my Wii has anything to do with the points I have made. Your quite welcome to disagree with me after all I have only voiced what I believe to be true. I really don't see how owning a NTSC Wii would have changed my opinion in any way shape or form. But hey there little fella if you feel you have some kind of information which may sway my obviously regionally confused warped little mind then please go ahead and enlighten me...
wtf.gif
 

VmprHntrD

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Seems you're more just anti-Wii in various reasons due to basing opinion off of shitty shoveled out titles and rushed to market launch games.

I'm curious what you have touched in the period since Metroid Prime 3 came out? I'm confused how most your Wii FPS experiences would be just spinning around and being confused. I have CoD3, played it out like 2 1/2 times so far and loved it, never had an issue other than the crowbar motion in one part of 1 stage was done really sketchily. But FPS didn't get persay really comfy/fixed to a level someone who uses the key/mouse setup could appreciate until Metroid and Medal of Honor Heroes 2. MOH actually trumps MP3 in control as it's just so customizable on sensitivity, size of the bounding box, speed setting for all motion and so on.

I still think it's really sheisty saying the Wii has 3 good games and the rest is shit, especially if you haven't bothered to try the stuff. I know you're in the PAL area so some stuff isn't there yet, but I think if the games I'm about to list don't change your impression of the system nothing likely will and you should just part with it.
- Metroid Prime 3
- Medal of Honor Heroes 2
- Zack and Wiki
- Geometry Wars Galaxies

Those 4 alone are very high calibur quality games that really got the control system done right and the gameplay in general is very strong and enjoyable. I am with you completely on Zelda, that game pissed me off and I got rid of it about 3 weeks ago. The saving was so spotty you'd lose progress, the 'waggle' for the sword but precision effort on secondary stuff really pissed me off to no end, the wolf controls were clunky crap too. And then I had tried out RS on a $30 deal early this year...FPS control was awesome, and the sword had me sell it as it ran like shit...slice(which it mimiced)...wait 1.5sec...it does it. LAME!

Supposedly the Star Wars game is in synch with motions so I don't think it's the Wii that is the issue or the controller as the technology is sound. The problem being is that people have not bothered to take the time to do it right and test it solid except in a few cases of games such as those I listed. I would have loved to toss 'The Godather' on that list but I wanted to keep remixes/ports out of the picture...but it's spot on 1:1 quality movement too that really did open up the so-so ease of accessibility that games like it and other GTA clones do.

I will say you are dilluded though if you really feel they dropped the name 'revolution' because Mario could be done on the Cube. Trust me, from a developers standpoint I can assure you it can't, not in the least bit at all be done. I got into a convo with my brother, a game producer for THQ about it, and it can't. Zelda yes, you're right, it's a damn lousy cube port, but not Mario.
 

xflash

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you forgot mario galaxy anyway im sorry if i offended you i didn´t mean it that way what i meant was hardcore gamers like mthrnite said

also i wasn´t saying the wii was cheaply manufactured i just said some people might think it is because of a low price

and yeah i know the 360 has had a lot of problems lately

but the only game im really looking forward to for the wii right now is brawl and it´s still a few months off so im not going to sell it
 

The_Cylon_Surfer

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Vampire Hunter D - you make some excellent points...And I guess when you compare the Wii to the PS3 in terms of launch titles then they both have some pretty crappy launch titles.


I truly hope you are right in saying that the wiimote issues currently seen in many games are due to poor development and not Nintendo's hardware - I really do. I will at least try the four games mentioned in your previous post and see how they are. I have no idea if they are my kind of games or not.


I fail to see how SMG couldn't be done on the cube - I am not talking 1:1 exact same game here - what I am saying is that I feel the cube could have produced a game graphically similar that left the player with the same game play experience minus the wiimote aspects. Or indeed that came with a tilt style NGC controller addon for ball riding, ray surfing etc. There is nothing that ground breaking in the game that wasn't seen in sunshine. Dont get me wrong tho, I love SMG its an great title with awsome level design. I'm quite sure that I read that SMG was based on many concepts and ideas designed in SM128. I don't work for Nintendo but I'm quite sure that SM128 would have been developed on a NGC and then concepts improved for the Wii later in time.

I am not saying in anyway shape or form that Nintendo Devs changed the name from Revolution to Wii due to Mario Galaxy but I am saying that they maybe realized that "Revolution" was a bit of a brag and maybe to much of one, hence the name change.
 

VmprHntrD

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Well xflash I didn't take offense no...I just in general tire of the bad rap across the board Nintendo has taken hits for since sony popped on the scene. In last they get no respect, and now when it's #1, now it's like no respect either like they don't deserve it. I'm a fan, sure, and I like my Wii, but I'm not like in 'love' with it though for sure.


Alymer that's true enough and was part of where I was getting at without naming names. Both them launched with trashy stuff, mind you while there was more bulk of trashy stuff on Wii in quantity, they did have more quality titles too in the last year and very early on.

Now from personal experience on games I recommended to you, and also Godfather which I mentioned later I have learned that it really was RUSH TO LAUNCH stupidity with the bigger name stuff. It really and totally was a bridge of potential laziness and rushed time frames on things, or even cheapass port budgeting too I bet.

I dunno if you pirate or not this stuff, I refuse to, so these are BUYS I'm informing on so you know if I get fucked out of $40-50 large I'm going to be a complete shit out of it when someone asks.

In short on the 4 I listed... MP3 you point and go, can turn as quick as needed for that style of game. You can grapple and pivot, lash out and rip things away, camera behaves both in slid around views while in a ball or on the eyes as expected. Everything in the game has a motion from soldering a slashed circuit board to spinning about a multi-lock turn key grip...and it does it the instant you do, no lag, no having to be overkill.

MOH H2 is as is above, but they refined it more. In this respect you can turn instantly (saves your ass in 32MP mode online.) You can take your bounding box (aim around from center before movement) from huge to like an inch (well basically the size of the crosshair on the menu etc), and you can modify what does what on the controllers and how damn fast/slow they turn and general sensitivity...you can get mouse/key speedy easily.

Zack and Wiki is a point and click adventure but a little more involved. Imagine having like Secret of Monkey Island/Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on your Wii. But, on top of that it's more interactive. You'll need to hold the controller in multiple ways to perform the non simple click tasks. Hold it like a pump and do so, hold it like a lever and move up/down, grab a drill and jam it in, move to/away to saw, etc. All these things keep synch just with you, no lame 1sec lags of Red Steel.

Geometry Wars Galaxies can be done using a pointer mode, or just the classic controller for dual analog. The pointer is spot on, how I've played it so far but will be trying with the pad maybe later today. You just aim at screen with your right hand where you want the fire to go, and use the left stick to move. B/A fires and C/Z bombs...and it's precision with the aiming with the pointer...exactly as responsive as 2 sticks so it comes to a comfort issue.


Those 4 are 'hardcore' titles I own that are new and non-porty. I had already lightly mentioned how Godfather which is a remix works, and it has NO lag either. You can choke, pistol whip, baseball bat, lob molotov cocktails, etc as you intend to. Camera with the point controller is excellent, easily hide around corners like in a first or third person shooter or duck under stuff with ease, and aim like a dead shot in a FPS. It takes all those things people bitch about but look over when rating things like GTA3 so damn high and fixes it just due to the interface.

As far as Mario goes. All I know is that technologically on the GCN (even wii controls removed) could not be done. This is coming from my brother a producer at THQ with a dev kit. They ran tests on the game, whatever those are probably using that kit, and saw that the textures it's shoveling, the amount of area being rendered, and the rest isn't possible at all. Unlike the old smarter N64 era of render only what you need on screen +1" outside they did on Mario 64, they rendered the entire damn galaxy you're in. It's always on screen when it is not, everything is calculated for movement, behaviors, etc...the entire world is on the go and isn't called up on the fly... That and certain things in the a/v dept are just (mostly v) nudged to shoved over what GC can do.
 

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Sorry but i do not agree. Most people buy a Wii because of the wiimote controller and how Nintendo claimed it "would" work. In reality the Wiimote does not function in this manor. I was very excited to get my Wii on the UK Launch day, I loaded up Zelda for the 1st time and yes it was great BUT the wiimote swinging did not make link swing his sword in the same way during game play but merely emulated a simple button press. I eagerly purchased Red Steel for some kick ass sword fights and gun battles...if you can call that a sword fighting the well, your retarded.

The fact that games don't use the Wiimote the way it can be used is by no means a fault of the hardware itself, but a fault of the developers; unfortunately, Nintendo included. The Wiimote does work the way Nintendo claims it would. The fact that games don't use that functionality is a different matter. It may be true, but is entirely unrelated.

You mention lag. This is due to the way current games interpret the data received from the Wiimote. Instead of following your movements directly, the game waits for a predefined motion curve, that's mapped to a certain move in the game. On all consoles, all moves are pre-rendered, as short animations of your character performing the action you wanted, usually with the desired effect (striking the enemy, for example) near the end of it. On other consoles, you'd press a controller button to set the animation in motion; the Wii waits for you to swing the remote the predefined way, which of course takes longer to do than simply pressing a button. The lag stems from there: from the moment you start your swing to the moment the action has an effect. Add the filter on the motion detecting that serves to filter out coffee jitters, and you're actually mid-swing before the Wii even starts paying attention. Result: lag.

As I said somewhere before, using this method would be like replacing action buttons with a touchscreen, but having the player write "B" on it in order to attack. Recognizing a "B" stroke would set off the sprite animation of your character swinging the sword. Sounds crazy? Zelda: Phantom Hourglass is not far from that. You don't hold the sword with the stylus and have Link follow it around, you attack using predefined stylus strokes that the DS translates into actions. It works well, but it isn't as instantaneous as pressing a button would be. Yet to many, this is more fun.

Another problem with the games is the aforementioned predefined action animations. Your character isn't a real-time ragdoll model, it's a series of short pre-rendered animations triggered by a set of predefined Wiimote motions. There's only a limited amount of animations, and in a sword fighting game they are, broadly speaking, limited to four: a horizontal swing, a vertical swing, a diagonal swing, and a forward thrust. This means that no matter how you swing, what speed and strength and angle you achieve with the Wiimote, your in-game with character will only perform four predefined actions, and the hit or miss is defined as "if (swing) and ({enemy position - player position} < weapon range) then (hit) = true". Not exactly master swordplay. The thing is, using standard game mechanics on a new system is a step backwards, despite the fact the new system itself is a step forward. As with using a touchscreen to write commands by hand and so play a command-line adventure (instead of developing a point and click system), waving a remote to emulate pressing buttons is wrong. The whole game control philosophy should change, not just the way of entering commands.

The Wiimote makes it possible to have your motions translated to your character directly. The character's weapon arm would have to be a ragdoll model animated in real time, so that the arm could follow your swings exactly and wouldn't be limited to a predefined set of animations, and the hit/miss/block would have to be done through collision detection on the entire body, rather than just doing the "distance && swing" operation. Super Mario Galaxy does this, it detects when opponents touch you, and regards that as a "hit". However, Mario is a chubby chunky little thing, and for purposes of collision detecting can be approximated with a sphere, while two normal shaped and sized characters with independently moving parts would be slightly more difficult. Not to mention that if you get the model wrong, the movements would be jerky and awkward, instead of the smooth, elegant pre-rendered movement animations you get in "standard" games.

This, to most developers, seems like too much work, when the majority of players are quite happy with the current situation. Hardcore gamers may be disappointed to see the potential and actual hardware capabilities of the Wii be neglected this way, but most Wii owners are just happy to see the little guy on the screen react to random Wiimote waggling, and don't demand anything more.

The thing is, in time they might. In fact, it's almost certain that they will start resenting the faults that, at the moment, they are more than happy to oversee. After the umpteenth incarnation of "Identical Minigame Madness 3" or "PS2 Port With Analogs Hacked Off And Wiimote Glued On (sub-par graphics included)", even the most avid random-wagglers will start complaining.

Luckily, developers are starting to pick up on this, and more and more games recently actually take advantage of the Wiimote as a device in its own right, not just a mouse/analog stick replacement, and more and more games have better, more natural, but most of all, more Wii-specific controls. Are things looking up? Will we actually get what we paid for? I believe so. And pretty soon, people will stop doubting that spending this amount of money on the Wii is actually worth it. I believe it is.
 

TGBoy

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You know the price of Wii in Kuwait. You would be shocked!

They sell the Nintendo Wiis for 299KD (1034 USD) which is four times the price.
They charge 45KD (155 USD) for the Wii Controller and another 45KD (155 USD) for the nunchuk attachment.
These are the prices at Virgin Megastore in Kuwait.

Outrageous or wat
wacko.gif
 

BlueStar

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The Wii is going through exactly the same phase the DS went through. With sales the way they are, there is no way the Wii is going to die in the next few years. The user base is so big that developers would be idiotic not to plow loads of time and money into seriously developing for the platform. What we are seeing at the moment is due to sceptical devs from last year, before anyone knew which way the market was going (Remember EAs announcement about how they "backed the wrong horse" by focusing on PS3 development?). What we will see next year are the fruits of their new interest in the machine. Remember the first year of the DS? A few decent Nintendo games, shoddy ports with DS-specific controls as an after thought? Then a few killer apps like Nintendogs massively inflating the userbase and then *bang* six months down the line decent third party games start popping up and things people said were "impossible" on the DS are suddenly being used in games as devs become more committed to the system and start seriously on R&D. Anyone who thinks the Wii is on the way down, rather than the way up is going to be shown to be rather naive over the next year.
 

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The Wii is going through exactly the same phase the DS went through. With sales the way they are, there is no way the Wii is going to die in the next few years. The user base is so big that developers would be idiotic not to plow loads of time and money into seriously developing for the platform....

Indeed. It would be counter to common sense for them. You're right, the user base is not only already huge, but continues to grow incredibly fast. That can, hopefully, only mean good for us Wii owners. There's the promise that we'll have plenty of great titles to choose from, even if we have to sift through a lot of garbage. And when your fanbase becomes large, developers have no choice but to start getting serious about how they compete. Right now, they're throwing anything onto the system just to have a presence there, but that will change, I'm sure.
 

VmprHntrD

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Good call blue as that is very showing.

DS was with like enough bigboys to count on your one hand in a year, Wii too...one huge game shoveled massive hardware (the puppies) and on the Wii the Mario game is moving them pretty hardcore so far...but then again so is Wii Play.

We're just NOW in the last month or two starting to see the beginning of games you could consider real first gen efforts from 3rd parties outside UbiSoft with Rayman and Red Steel and even yet those 2 were rushed. MOHH2 shows up and it's spot on fast and furious on controls (CHECK 12/3 todays review on NintendoWorldReport.com as it explains way detailed on it.) And things like the others I listed in my last big post...they outside of GW obviously with its retro look use the system geniusly and tap some form of potential (well GW does excellent control on pointer mode.) Mario and MOH are showing a taste of what the system has potential to do on the visual scope, all them show the control can be 1:1 and damn well beautifully done with speed and accuracy.

If it were possible I'd say steal that 'Poo Be Gone' thing from that Jack Black movie 'ENVY' and spray it over all but about 6-7games on the Wii from launch until Metroid Prime 3 and Zak and Wiki showed...and start from scratch with the NOW being what SHOULD have been at launch from 3rd parties and guilty ass Nintendo too with SMG doing something fresh.
 

osirisFIVE

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Down here in Singapore, Wii consoles are sold in bundles.

It's pissing because it's $650 with pre-selected Spiderman 3 and Bust-a-move.

Of course you can slowly look through all the Wii bundles and find a bundle with Zelda and Prime together, but it'll be gone before getting a credit card out.

You guys in the states and UK are luckier since even in retail shops, the Nintendo Wii's more expensive than the 360.
Good thing I won mine in a lucky draw
tongue.gif


Cheers.

EDIT: S$650 is like US$450 or somewhere around there.
 

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Some say it cost about 200Euro(so 50Euro goes to nintendo)
If that is true i wouldn't mind, Nintendo is a great company and always victim of piracy so i don't mind them getting my 50Euro
Consoles should make money for the company behind it
Why just earn money on games?
This wasn't before was it, did Sony fuck that up or something?
 

VmprHntrD

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I'm not sure who started that retarded trend that has confused people(gamers and companies) into thinking it was an acceptable business model, but it's not, it's a path to failure. Selling perpetually at a loss praying to make it back from other revenue is about as retarded as the 'arguing on the internet' downs kid doing the run image.
 

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