Hacking Question How stupid is Nintendo?

[Arck]

They find out that piracy boost console sells
So they left an unused browser to allow it.

afaik piracy don't affect games sells since pirate don't and won't buy their games.

+ Switch hackers are more open to the public than PS4 or XboxOne hacker, pretty sure there is way to play backup on those but privatly and the public don't even know

 

[Deleted User]

May as well ask the same question I ask whenever I see threads like these:

Could you do better?

...

No? Cool, figured. The grand majority of GBAtemp couldn't run more than one lemonade stand at once if they tried, much less properly proof the Switch against people who batter it as hard as they can for months to find exploits. Compared to the other primary major console developers, they have some catching up to do, but they're leagues ahead of everyone else. Chill.

the fact me and you and somebody else cant do better is partly because of lack of budget, time and knowledge. big company like nintendo should have at least the money, to hire some security experts that work with that shit. security isnt my job and prob. not your either but it should be somebody's... it is like saying "wow ppl buy my hello-world game! what, its bad? most of you cant do better!". and most of the ppl arent programmers so it is true to a degree.... or like expecting a indie game to be as good as a AAA game. yes minecraft is successful but it isnt the case for most of the indie sector...

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They find out that piracy boost console sells
So they left an unused browser to allow it.

afaik piracy don't affect games sells since pirate don't and won't buy their games.

+ Switch hackers are more open to the public than PS4 or XboxOne hacker, pretty sure there is way to play backup on those but privatly and the public don't even know

that's just untrue, I have many friends who decided not to buy pkmn when some 3ds hack was announced (I think it was either gatewait or something....) hacks boost console sales but stop software sales. gimme at least one counter-example if you can

 

[fenderjaguar]

They find out that piracy boost console sells
So they left an unused browser to allow it.

afaik piracy don't affect games sells since pirate don't and won't buy their games.

Agreed.

Thread title should really be "how stupid are people who believe that hacked console = bad console/game sales". Most easily pirated platform ever; NDS = best selling handheld ever

 

[Taleweaver]

I would create a brick-code, would insert it in any scene release that comes out, and upload these manipulated games/software to countless file hosters. I would spread terror and fear

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or ignorance, but I'll take a stab at a serious answer where you don't provide one:

In normal design of a console operating system, you make sure that the worst software can do is...well...nothing. In theory, the home button should never be overwritten, whatever software should never have full access to features it doesn't need and only have very specific access to the features it may need. The fact that exploits tend to exist is more proof that that theory isn't always applicable, but you really want to thrive towards that. Having software allow to completely brick your console means that it has access to a whole array of features you don't want software engineers to mess with in the first place. Because what do you think will happen once you release this sort of code into the wild? I can imagine three things:
1) quality control will become an issue. Scene release, peer pressure and source control quickly become far more important. Pretty soon after the first brick wave, nobody will "just" download something an unknown stranger tells them to.
2) impersonating a group or scene will only temporarily work. My guess is that your IP will get discovered and the PC or network you'll be on will become a target for worse cybercriminal activity than the hacking of video games.
3) with brick code in place, sooner or later there will be "casualties": people claiming they did nothing wrong on the device in the first place, demand a replacement if you're lucky and sue the company if you're unlucky. In both cases, you put the company's reputation up for grabs. Not only will your bosses not like that, game companies won't either (if my console bricks while I was playing game X, I can sue that company. And it's up to that company to attempt to prove I used a pirated copy of the game. They will probably win that case, but, again, until that time it's their reputation that's on the line. And those sorts of rumors can quickly ruin a launch period).

There's also a fourth possible consequence, but I'm not skilled enough to know if this is feasible: that the very own code that is used to brick the device will allow hackers full access to the device. After all, you can't have code that nukes the entire console without having access to said console. And with the toxic code will be on torrent sites, hackers WILL study it to see how it works. If they manage to throw out the "nuke the device" part of the code and replace it with "install this here program with full access", you will effectively helped achieve the very thing you wanted to avoid in the first place.

 

[DarkGabbz]

Look at the PS4 its been possible to boot Linux on 1.76 for years, later firmware have exploits, yet theirs no piracy or PS4 homebrew yet (although it looks like it might be close at this point on 1.76 at least).

People are getting excited over nothing at this point on the Switch, plus has the entry point been used not already patched by Nintendo on post launch firmware? Sure long term this progress might help, however i'd be surprised if theirs homebrew and piracy anytime soon on the Switch.

There is kinda PS4 Piracy with the PS4 MTX KEY.

 

[Arck]

that's just untrue, I have many friends who decided not to buy pkmn when some 3ds hack was announced (I think it was either gatewait or something....) hacks boost console sales but stop software sales. gimme at least one counter-example if you can

That untrue, they sold over 16M copy of Sun/Moon start of 2017 when it was easily possible to get it for free.
I bought it even if I was able to get it for free like many of my friends, all I wanted is modding, I am personnaly not poor so that maybe why

 

[Lord M]

Sony is stupid, not Nintendo.

 

[McHaggis]

It's possible that Nintendo don't see the value in overspending on security because they've done their research on how little it really affects their bottom line when the console is hacked. Remember that the vast majority of console gamers are not technically minded and aren't confident hacking their systems.

Also, consider how long before the 3DS was fully open and hacked after launch. I'd argue that the 3DS is a success story because Gateway was shunned by many would-be pirates due to its high price and the system had about 4 years before piracy fully developed.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I'm pretty sure it's because that Nintendo consoles are way more popular (in terms of hacking) than other consoles.
Just look at the Wii Homebrew sub-forum and compare it to the ps3 hacking sub-forum.
Wii U hacking is even more popular than PS4.

 

[linuxares]

I think one of the biggest reasons is that a lot of the titles and fun you can do with a PS4 or a Xbox One you can do better and play most of the titles on a PC. So there is really no incentive to homebrew them.

Plus these people that are now hacking the Switch already got years of experience hacking the 3DS and somewhat the Wii U. So they got a good base already to stand on.

EDIT: Also the most rampart piracy of the world are often poor countries where they don't really can afford to buy the games.

 

[SonyNintendoGamer1]

Nintendo just sucks at anything other than gaming. See freeshop and their crappy online app.

It's okay tho, hacking Pokemon that I download for free is so much fun.

 

[banzai200]

I'm kinda inclined to both sides, but i have my (noob) theory to why is the switch being so easily hacked

First, there's the obvious, Similar OS to 3ds and rushed code development

Second, i know i could be talking crap, but still, after the Wii U fiasco, i saw a lot of game forums, even the most "respectable" ones, a lot of people saying things like "I'm gonna buy the switch when exploits come out" and things like that
And after a little more than weeks from it's release, the switch already had a "POC exploit" in PegaSwitch, even though it was BLINDLY OBVIOUS that it had no gain for the common user, still, lots of people started buying switches in those pricey game countries (Brazil included, i saw lot's of places selling the console after that announcement, and Nintendo doesn't even have official retailers or support here).
And the same thing happened weeks ago, with the Kernel dump, and I'm pretty sure is happening with the trust zone, so on so forth.

It's true that piracy (or homebrewing) sells consoles, there's no denying that, another good example is the Xbox 360 in brazil, most sold console in the past generation, now it's really hard to gasp a second batch 360 S without a exploit installed, and Nintendo is REALLY stupid if they don't know that, so i believe that the switch security is more basic for that reason.

Now, for the software sales, that's kinda "easy" to make heads and tails of it, take the "stability" updates in the 3ds, and count every post in the 3ds forum saying that "*hax is patched in *" and use logic in this situation: if you have a switch, waiting for a exploit to come out, i'll gather dust and not be played, and remember, there's no media apps on it yet, so you would buy a game until piracy comes out, and Nintendo will keep pushing the STABILITY, which will delay even more exploits and make that take even longer, that's not even saying the hardware revisions that comes with newer software updates

But it's just a dumb theory, i'm not a marketing or a programmer to know if it's true or not

 

[Noctosphere]

Noob=/=stupid

 

[BlueFox gui]

how stupid is nintendo? hmmmm... from 1/10? it's over 9000/10

 

[duffmmann]

Piracy/hacking has never killed a system, and in some cases have actually increased hardware sales. Beyond that, our community is considerably small compared to the amount of system owners that never hack their system. I think the reality is that Nintendo has recognized that this isn't as big of a problem as it may sound like it could be on paper, and as such, system security just isn't their biggest concern in the world. Sure, when they're aware of it, they'll push updates to block entry points, and they may even ban you from online, but they very clearly are not aggressively trying to stop hacking before it happens.

 

[Deleted-401606]

If i take a look at the current Switch hacking-progress, there's really one big question that bothers me: Why isn't Nintendo able to protect their hardware?

Hacking a PS3 is often a hassle with limitations, some models/FW's are unhackabe (as much as i kow). PS4 and XboxOne have been on the market for much longer and are still unhacked.

How f****** incompetent is Nintendo? And why?

Nintendo can't afford to spend the amount of money that sony and microsoft do to secure their hardware. Nintendo CAN'T compete with xb1 and ps4,they just tell you guys that they want to be "different" . Reality is that they can't afford to take any losses on the console so they have to sell gimmicks that get hacked fast.

On top of that they nickle and dime the customer. Didn't make enough NES classic for everyone. Nintendo is all about screwing the customer unfortunately so when CFW comes out that's us making things even.

 

[Kioku]

How incompetent.... What? They made a piece of hardware that is doing fantastic in terms of sales and functionality. The general architecture of the system and its similarities with past hardware are why progress is being made so quickly in terms of "hacking". It's not like they intentionally left it so vulnerable.

The only thing Nintendo is currently doing wrong is the social aspect of the Switch.

Also either say the damn words or remove the asterisks. Shit like that looks retarded.

 

[Reyn_the_Insane]

They're getting smarter. Just look at the Switch's marketing. Although the voice chat app is their dumbest mistake in their entire history (Yes, worse than the Power Glove or the Virtual Boy).

 

[mariogamer]

They find out that piracy boost console sells
So they left an unused browser to allow it.

afaik piracy don't affect games sells since pirate don't and won't buy their games.

+ Switch hackers are more open to the public than PS4 or XboxOne hacker, pretty sure there is way to play backup on those but privatly and the public don't even know

More open... Let's say the company itself don't leave hem the possibility to release

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Nintendo can't afford to spend the amount of money that sony and microsoft do to secure their hardware. Nintendo CAN'T compete with xb1 and ps4,they just tell you guys that they want to be "different" . Reality is that they can't afford to take any losses on the console so they have to sell gimmicks that get hacked fast.

On top of that they nickle and dime the customer. Didn't make enough NES classic for everyone. Nintendo is all about screwing the customer unfortunately so when CFW comes out that's us making things even.

That's untrue... As a nintendo fan, I would say they're game are not for the same audience as the Xbox/PS. Also they're not doing the same game, while most of the PS game are war or something (Maybe I'm wrong but it's still a litle bit true.

 

[Futurdreamz]

My guess is that Nintendo technically doesn't care - either because they consider their consoles toys that you should be able to tinker with, or because Nintendo acknowledges that piracy allows people to play games that they would normally not be able to. However, their legal team and developers demand that some protections are put into place. The result of Freeshop was possibly an unexpected outcome that they have no intention of condoning, however.

But really, if you have a tri-wing screwdriver then Nintendo consoles are very easy to take apart, and practically beg you to. That has to be intentional.


I'm not going to claim that Nintendo hires geniuses that we can never hope to understand, but they must consider that focusing very hart on locking out piracy is unnecessary. The 3DS did have a really bad piracy problem, and it sold like shitbusters. The PS Vita is locked down tighter than a nun's knickers, and it sold like shit.