Tim Sweeney has been actively defending the policy of Epic Games acquiring all sorts of exclusives for its new storefront. The most recent comment from the CEO is a bold one this time; he claims that if Valve were to increase the revenue share that developers earn on Steam, Epic would back down from hoarding exclusive titles, and would even consider putting Epic-made games on Steam as a sign of extending an olive branch. Currently, Epic Games offers an 88% cut, as opposed to Steam's 70%, though the latter slightly changed their policy last year, to offer 75% once a game sells over $10 million, and a further 80% for titles that clear a $50 million earnings threshold. While Sweeney is vocal on his policy against storefronts imposing such a large percentage on developers, a 70-30 split tends to be the norm when it comes to the industry--which means unless Valve is willing to take such a massive profit cut, we won't be seeing Sweeney's claims come true any time soon.

If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.

— Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) April 25, 2019

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[Foxi4]

(2), (5), and (10) are mostly jokes, IMHO. Real "working offline mode" would mean consistently working offline. Epic might be worse is that regard--although so far every free EGS game has worked for me on Linux without EGS. (3) is the best thing so far for me, but it doesn't work well with (1)--cloud saves with Proton are a crapshoot. I can't speak for (4) or (11). (6) is nice in theory but in practice "family sharing" is handled as one giant mutex lock (ie, only you or family can play games in the library) which makes it somewhat worthless (not entirely, but close). (8) and (12) are basically the same thing, and honestly Steam's chat function sucks pretty terribly. Really, Steam's whole UI sucks. (7) is one of the real nice highlights...for the few games that really support it well; for the most part (7) competes against DLC which means it's mostly a non-starter. (9) seems like an odd statement since there's internet wide caching services that I imagine most game stores could use if they don't want to run their own.

Basically, I wouldn't say your list is worthless. It's just, a lot of the list is really subpar in my opinion. I generally dread using Steam as a UI and don't enjoy much of how it functions. Yes, there are much worse interfaces. That's not really saying much. Most of what Steam has is what Facebook has: the network effect. It's never been to me that Steam Client has been especially great. It's just that for a long time there was no one, Steam offered just enough DRM to get buy-in without being onerous, and now we're seeing a lot of other companies trying to usurp it for their own cut. Maybe Netflix would be an even better analogy. Or Microsoft and feature parity. So, I guess as much as I have such a low opinion of Steam Client, I do agree with your list as a whole. *shrug*

As an old school gamer, in my mind PC gamers have already lost once running the launcher for anything besides shopping became mandatory. I have never had any issues with chatting, backing up my save files or any of the wonderful "free features" launchers provide before, they only became problematic once launchers became commonplace. Let's not forget that we're talking about PC gaming, I can run any software I want to enable any feature I might need, I don't require Good Guy Valve to give it to me in their amazing bloated package.

 

[Xzi]

As an old school gamer, in my mind PC gamers have already lost once running the launcher for anything besides shopping became mandatory. I have never had any issues with chatting, backing up my save files or any of the wonderful "free features" launchers provide before, they only became problematic once launchers became commonplace. Let's not forget that we're talking about PC gaming, I can run any software I want to enable any feature I might need, I don't require Good Guy Valve to give it to me in their amazing bloated package.

Bloated would be running a separate program for each one of those features. That's also basically what the state of PC gaming was in the early 2000s, and the reason that piracy was so rampant at the time. Nobody was providing a worthwhile service that made buying PC games convenient and kept them all in one place.

After all, what incentive is there to use a launcher that's little more than an HTML browser? At that point you might as well direct your own choice of browser to a piracy site instead.

 

[Foxi4]

Bloated would be running a separate program for each one of those features. That's also basically what the state of PC gaming was in the early 2000s, and the reason that piracy was so rampant at the time. Nobody was providing a worthwhile service that made buying PC games convenient and kept them all in one place.

After all, what incentive is there to use a launcher that's little more than an HTML browser? At that point you might as well direct your own choice of browser to a piracy site instead.

It's certainly the way I like it. Don't pretend like you use in-game chat or Steam's built-in communication services, you're running Discord like everybody else, or TeamSpeak, or Vent, or whatever else your friends are using. Or nothing, because you might not even need it. You're also running a bunch of display software, Steam's not helping you with that either. If you're using a custom controller instead of a mouse and keyboard, it's either bound in the driver itself or it has a proprietary configuration program. Steam isn't an all in one solution so much as it is yet another program I need to run in addition to what I already have to run. A good launcher, in my mind, should just be a link to the shop and a list of games I own, I don't want anything else because I'm on PC anyway. The Steam client is a resource pig, I've seen configs where it will happily hog up to a gig of RAM and a good chunk of your CPU cycles doing absolutely nothing besides sitting in the background. I run that thing only when I truly need to, I will jump through hoops to disable it, but most games aren't very pleased when it's not running, some won't even launch at all. If we're talking about anti-consumer practices, that's a big one.

 

[kuwanger]

Bloated would be running a separate program for each one of those features. That's also basically what the state of PC gaming was in the early 2000s, and the reason that piracy was so rampant at the time.

No, piracy was rampant (and still is) because of your second point:

Nobody was providing a worthwhile service that made buying PC games convenient and kept them all in one place.

After all, what incentive is there to use a launcher that's little more than an HTML browser? At that point you might as well direct your own choice of browser to a piracy site instead.

People who wanted to not pirate got a convenient means to digitally buy and download PC games with Steam. Literally every other feature having to be spun up again as necessary per game is not a basis for people engaging in piracy. Those who don't care if they pirate are still using an HTML browser to do so (with torrents, just like then). Discussions of "bloat" in anything related to software seems a non-sequitur since clear that has not been a basis for peoples actions as a whole.

 

[Foxi4]

No, piracy was rampant (and still is) because of your second point:

People who wanted to not pirate got a convenient means to digitally buy and download PC games with Steam. Literally every other feature having to be spun up again as necessary per game is not a basis for people engaging in piracy. Those who don't care if they pirate are still using an HTML browser to do so (with torrents, just like then). Discussions of "bloat" in anything related to software seems a non-sequitur since clear that has not been a basis for peoples actions as a whole.

Piracy is a function of people's economic situation and pricing, it has nothing to do with the bells and whistles of the launcher. If the software is worth the price tag and people can afford it, they will buy it. This has been the case since time immemorial, I agree with you 100%. The problem with launcher bloat is that, unlike any other program, that's the one piece of software I effectively can't get rid of if the game relies on its API and services.

 

[ombus]

Its funny people make all this noise for these things...why dont all rage to steam and all other stores to let those who own something be allowed to sell it.?
Would be good..never happen.

 

[Xzi]

It's certainly the way I like it. Don't pretend like you use in-game chat or Steam's built-in communication services

When I'm playing with randoms I just use whatever is in-game, assuming it's a game that requires voice communication at all. With friends, sure, it's Discord.

You're also running a bunch of display software, Steam's not helping you with that either.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, I wouldn't expect it to. You can check for driver updates through Steam, though.

If you're using a custom controller instead of a mouse and keyboard, it's either bound in the driver itself or it has a proprietary configuration program.

Lol what, Steam has support for nearly any controller built-in (way more than Epic's current zero), and you can customize button configs in Steam as well.

Steam isn't an all in one solution so much as it is yet another program I need to run in addition to what I already have to run. A good launcher, in my mind, should just be a link to the shop and a list of games I own, I don't want anything else because I'm on PC anyway.

Yeah but they aren't targeting just you, they're targeting people on Linux, people on various hardware specifications, people who want to use VR headsets, etc and so forth. That's how they got market dominance, not by targeting niche desires for minimalism.

Of course, there are launchers out there which would probably be more to your liking, but EGS isn't minimalist, it's just flat-out lacking in its feature set. There's no reason to choose it above GOG Galaxy or Origin in that regard.

 

[Foxi4]

When I'm playing with randoms I just use whatever is in-game, assuming it's a game that requires voice communication at all. With friends, sure, it's Discord.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, I wouldn't expect it to. You can check for driver updates through Steam, though.

Lol what, Steam has support for nearly any controller built-in (way more than Epic's current zero), and you can customize button configs in Steam as well.

Yeah but they aren't targeting just you, they're targeting people on Linux, people on various hardware specifications, people who want to use VR headsets, etc and so forth. That's how they got market dominance, not by targeting niche desires for minimalism.

Of course, there are launchers out there which would probably be more to your liking, but EGS isn't minimalist, it's just flat-out lacking in its feature set. There's no reason to choose it above GOG Galaxy or Origin in that regard.

You're missing my point, especially regarding controllers. Steam is not an AIO launcher so much as it is a car with a blender and a grill built-in. It "consolized" PC gaming over time, which is nice, but bloated.

 

[Xzi]

You're missing my point, especially regarding controllers. Steam is not an AIO launcher so much as it is a car with a blender and a grill built-in. It "consolized" PC gaming over time, which is nice, but bloated.

Eh, what you call bloated, others call feature-packed. Not everybody is using every feature, but every feature is being appreciated by somebody.

I also disagree that it has consolized PC gaming, Steam is far superior to any paid subscription service on consoles. It does have the console-like 'big picture mode,' but it's also got built-in mod support/downloads, individual game forums, in-home game streaming, family library sharing, custom launch options, custom skins, and many other features that aren't possible on consoles.

 

[Rune]

If THIS is how they define help then i'd love to see what they define not helping as. The only thing their doing is putting themselves in a shit lot of debt. Sooner or later all the exclusives from the Epic Store will be moving to Steam and those other stores.

What's dumb is that Epic try to paint this picture that they're making this big sacrifice for the developer, when actually they're doing it to draw more people to their platform. They only do it because THEY are trying to gain from this. If looking out for the developer is what they cared about, why are the games exclusive? Would Epic be lowering their cut of the money without forcing exclusive deals to their platform? Probably not.
So for them to make this claim that they'd stop if Steam matched their percentage cut, is a clear lie. If they cared about anyone but themselves, they'd just give up the exclusives anyway. They dont need to worry about what Steam are doing, to have the moral high ground.

 

[DarkKaine]

Keep your dumpster fire trash games epic.
They'll never be able to compete with steam. I myself only ever used steam. I don't want more accounts and unnecessary launchers on my computer.
The last good game they made was in 2004.
So if you want limited exposure and hate from people that can't play the games because they're limited to a platform they'll never use keep at it. This battle is as futile as Nokia's SymbianOS vs android.

 

[FAST6191]

If Epic crater we get an amusing story.
If Valve crater it might hurt for a bit for some, and another in the long list of why we don't tie ourselves to proprietary DRM services, but we get an amusing story.
If they cause each other to crater then we will have a bloody amusing story.
If they sharpen each other then people win. We are still losing as we can't happily resell games and are paying full price but tiny steps and all that.

Roll on the DRM company bloodsports.

I would not piss on either if they were on fire, saving that they are already too far gone and it acts as a final insult or maybe that it prolongs the fight/agony. Defending either feels like defending the indefensible, on top of being pointless (these are massive companies and little old any individuals on a forum means less than nothing to them, and you mean less than nothing to them in general). Steam have enjoyed a market leading, essentially monopoly, position for years now and have done little other than earn my contempt -- their being the current sugar daddy for Wine aside the censorship (again in a monopolistic position) and the positions they take with regards to reselling software all but guaranteeing my ire. I would like a better company than Epic, or Epic if they had better ideals, to be the potentially winner of such a match (guess which outcome I am hoping for above) but... it is not even really I will take what I can get but two equally cuntish types going up against each other.

I am still not entirely sure about why people are so up in arms about them buying in exclusives. Publishers kick in a bit in the expectation of a return all the time. I don't see the difference. If you are somehow tied to steam's launcher rather than your start bar (or tiles or whatever) then I believe it allows you to make shortcuts, and if trophments are to be a thing... blame Valve for not allowing them. At which point then meh -- we all probably have a thousand logins already and one more is no great shake.
I would not take Epic at their word but... I will write this off as some of the same sort of bluster you see before boxing matches. Accede to the demands or lose face. No loss either way to me.
Justification for a cut would be done on a business by business basis but if Epic are throwing around the money then with the possible exception of market reach (I don't know how many incidental purchases or Steam die hards there really are for any given title but the dev/pub's risk to take) I dare say I could implement the equivalents -- most things they offer are available in a thousand open source libraries already, server time to do it is not expensive and can be implemented by johnny just finished sysadmin school most of the time.

Also I saw mention of dual shock controllers earlier. Is that not an OS/driver problem? Moreover if they were really that magnanimous...

 

[leon315]

Epic Games offers an 88% cut, as opposed to Steam's 70%

such bleff, How much cut do M$ and $ony take from devs?

 

[Foxi4]

such bleff, How much cut do M$ and $ony take from devs?

25% is the retailer margin, then 20% covers the license and manufacturing cost. Sounds like more, however the return is more stable because piracy on consoles is rare.

 

[leon315]

25% is the retailer margin, then 20% covers the license and manufacturing cost. Sounds like more, however the return is more stable because piracy on consoles is rare.

so 45% goes to console makers if you want ur game on retail discs, what about on their digital store? which both manufacturing and physical product distribution costs are absent??

 

[Deleted User]

Whatever happened to not dealing with either of these storefronts?

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Epic Games blissfully ignores all the extra ways developers/publishers can save or make money/sales via Steam. This includes, but is not limited to, integrating Steam's own matchmaking (money saver), allowing for sale of in-game items and trading cards, as well as items crafted from trading card collecting via the community market place (which both Valve and dev/pub get a cut of every single sale), and finally key reselling, with which the dev/pub can request a number of keys to sell on other sites and storefronts where they get a higher split or 100% of the cut. Valve does not profit from those sales.

 

[Kioku]

Whatever happened to not dealing with either of these storefronts?

Complacency... Convenience... I miss my disc drive, though. If only GOG blew up like they had wanted. Even they're in the "launcher" game..

People were against Steam when it first came out. Now look at where it's at.

 

[Foxi4]

so 45% goes to console makers if you want ur game on retail discs, what about on their digital store? which both manufacturing and physical product distribution costs are absent??

Not to the console makers, no. Some margin has to go to the actual store that sells the game. Digital works out cheaper, I believe the total is 30%, but brick and mortar stores combined with online retailers are still wildly popular. Physical isn't going anywhere just yet. That, and the 20% console makers do take still covers the logistics of getting the game on disc and into your hands, so it's not all profit.

 

[Deleted User]

Complacency... Convenience... I miss my disc drive, though. If only GOG blew up like they had wanted. Even they're in the "launcher" game..

People were against Steam when it first came out. Now look at where it's at.

They've only gotten worse since I asked them to close my first account and reluctantly made a second one for my friends.
No more customer support, no more buying games for overseas friends, ignoring laws that are explicitly mentioned in their subscriber agreement, even after the Australian government sued them.