Dispute over (now) 8-year-old son's transition to a girl

[Deleted User]

yes it is, and people can change it how they want. maybe a few new rooms, new coat of paint, maybe a new interior. It is THEIR body and they can make changes to it as they, and their team of trained medical professionals, see fit. religion has no place in this conversation, this is in science's domain.

That's fine, as long as the individual is at least 18 years old, not 8 years old.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Because, of course, they aren't suicidal because they're ostracized for their choice, but simply because of the choice. Makes sense! Genius!

It is a lot to ask of the world to conform to one´s own beliefs. The truth is, most people do not really think a person who has had a sex change operation has become a different person. They go along with it because they do not want to offend. This can be a noble motivation. However, it might be healthier for the people who want to do a sex change operation if society does not confront them, nor lie to them in order to not offend them. People can see through lies eventually.

 

[notimp]

Given that:
1. Most transgender kids are the children of leftists.
2. Political beliefs are partially heritable.
3. Transgender people are far less likely to successfully reproduce.

Should we encourage leftists to trans their children?

1. Whoever does that statistic is probably a fraud. (What scientist goes around in search for transgender people, to ask them their parents political orientation? And gets enough feedback to compile something thats accurate enough statistically? Seems made up.)

2. No? Most likely predictor is social class (income, where you are living), not what your parents voted... Correlation is not causation.

3. There are so few transgender people in the world, or even in 'a nation' that that doesnt matter. Thats the most infuriating part about ultraminority politics. They dont matter to society at large at all (as in nothing changes substantively) compared to how much they are played to conjure up fear, or dislike, or even compassion. Or a sense of progress. They do matter to transgender people (the minorities themselves).

Thats also why large corporations love black lives matter. Actual paygap between black and white people at the lower income level (below glass ceiling) is 14% (on average, not in the same job), if you go into race wars over that, which result in 'experts' educating your entire workforce, that they have to check 'white privilege every step of the way, company laughs all the way home.

And if you take qualification into account (so education) its far less:

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...al-wage-gaps-persistence-poses-challenge.aspx

The bigger issue here is class based (much fewer black people in higher positions), and you wont fix the glass ceiling issue (professional networks) by letting your lower class employees take 'priviledge classes'. Its almost a distraction.

For transgender it is not, of course. Making it an issue of societal importance is the only way they can be integrated better. (Minority issue)

So in other words, you fight about transgender issues, if you think your society is perfectly fine, and you really, really have something to do about that group making up 0.6% of your population (first google result). Or because you got baited, so you dont look at other issues. (Or because you are part of that minority.)

You fight for 'black rights' in the workforce, by attending 'white privilege' trainings as a normal grunt in the workforce, if you think everything else is perfectly fine, you just have to do something about the fact that there are too few black millionaires (argumentative shortcut) arround statistically - or because you got baited.

I also dont see the 'education issue' for black folks being solved, by their white jobmates 'checking privilege'.

Its a trap.

 

[AmandaRose]

Even if it didn't, it doesn't change the fact that 41% of all ******** commit suicide.
EDIT: It really censored that.

If you are gonna use a figure then at least get your fucking figures right.

41% of trans people have not committed suicide.

41% of trans have attempted suicide but only in AMERICA. It doesn't take a genius to work out why the figure is so high in a country that is one of the most transphobic in the world.

World wide the attempted suicide rate in the trans community sits at only 3.5% which is only slightly higher than the worldwide figure for the CIS community.

 

[Jokey_Carrot]

Bruh I didn't even understand what a fucking vagina was till I was 11.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

41% of trans have attempted suicide but only in [...] one of the most transphobic [countries] in the world.

"Ignore my chromosomes or I'll commit suicide."

 

[AmandaRose]

"Ignore my chromosomes or I'll commit suicide."

Thats a very flippant remark that covers up the fact of why the figure is actually so high in America.

For instance over 50% of trans women in America will be sexually assaulted at least once in their lives.

85% of American trans women will be physically assaulted at least once in their life.

But hey if you want to keep burying your head into why the suicide figures are so high in America then more fool you.

 

[Viri]

I remember when I was 8~10, I wanted to be a girl, because I lived with 2 sisters, and wanted to be more like them. I told my mom, and she said you're a boy, live with it. Then at age 10 I got some friends, and grew out of it. I'm happy my mom told me to deal with it, and wasn't like this mom. I'm quite happy to be a guy.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

For instance over 50% of trans women in America will br sexually assaulted at least once in their lives.

I'm pretty sure that's why people become part of the LGBTQTILHXJTSIHCKZJFZJXKHXGJSIFOHZYDZOHCOHVIYCY+ community.

85% of America trans women will be physically assaulted at least once in their life.

By who? The doctors cutting off their body parts and administering hormones?

 

[deficitdisorder]

8 seems crazy young to me. You can still obviously love and support the child for who they want to be. maybe put them on puberty blockers or something but to do full transition process at that age feels off to me.

I'm pretty sure that's why people become part of the LGBTQTILHXJTSIHCKZJFZJXKHXGJSIFOHZYDZOHCOHVIYCY+ community.

Maybe you should spend the majority of you life being publicly shamed and hated for just existing then maybe you could understand some of their issues.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Maybe you should spend the majority of you life being publicly shamed and hated for just existing then maybe you could understand some of their issues.

So I can't have an opinion?

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

You can still obviously love and support the child for who they want to be.

You can, but you shouldn´t. Look at Viris example. Unconditional love does not mean supporting bad ideas.

 

[deficitdisorder]

You can, but you shouldn´t. Look at Viris example. Unconditional love does not mean supporting bad ideas.

Wow. In what fucking world would a child expressing themselves as more feminine or masculine a bad thing?

 

[ShadowOne333]

Hilarious how some are saying "puberty blockers" do no harm at all.
Like if time itself and body growth will be like:
"Oh you want me to stop? Sure, I'll hold off for when you consider me back to come back".

Seriously? Do you really believe "halting" puberty does no harm?
Do you really believe puberty is a thing you can control at will?
That you can resume it or stop it just whenever you want?

The fucking nerves lol

 

[chrisrlink]

so the dad has to pay for it? theres the real answer she wants the money herself a new twist on child support

 

[notimp]

Hilarious how some are saying "puberty blockers" do no harm at all.
Like if time itself and body growth will be like:
"Oh you want me to stop? Sure, I'll hold off for when you consider me back to come back".

Seriously? Do you really believe "halting" puberty does no harm?
Do you really believe puberty is a thing you can control at will?
That you can resume it or stop it just whenever you want?

The fucking nerves lol

I actually would want to read studies. If all development just sets in later, when hormones arent blocked anymore. On a superfluous level it seems counter intuitive. But it still could be the case.

Also I was wrong on the growth spurt thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker

Wiki talks about 'fully reversible' and positive effects on suicide prevention later on in life, but then lists a NGO brochure as source.

edit: Ah, so there are long term effects:

That said, doctors recommend children take puberty blockers only for a period of four years, in order to avoid long-term side effects, like loss of bone density.

src: https://theswaddle.com/what-are-puberty-blockers/

Here is another long term effect:

If children with male genitalia begin using GnRH analogues early in puberty, they might not develop enough penile and scrotal skin for certain gender confirmation genital surgical procedures, such as penile inversion vaginoplasty. Alternative techniques, however, are available.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...horia/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

...

But essentially, the argument for taking them is:

- Lower suicide rates later in life (disputed, see BBC article)
- Reduces the need for later surgery (if the gender dysphoria stays longterm)

Potential issue: Studies are rather sparse.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Wow. In what fucking world would a child expressing themselves as more feminine or masculine a bad thing?

That´s not what I said. If a child has the idea to change their sex, it is a bad idea. It doesn´t come naturally. Children shouldn´t be made to think about sex at that age. The mother claimed her son already wanted to be a girl at 6 years old. This shouldn´t be taken seriously. No need to oppose the child either.

 

[Lucifer666]

The thing with sex change is that from what I've seen you have to do it before puberty for it to be convincing. Since you can't reverse puberty. I think it's probably pretty clear at an early age if your kid is not acting like their birth gender but then again, 8 years might be a bit too young to know for sure, since young kids can be unpredictable.

solution: puberty blockers until adulthood

EDIT:

This whole thread is a fucking joke, and almost nobody knows what they're on about.

The kid is 8. EIGHT. IF this were the kid's choice and not the mum's, all anyone has to do is affirm their identity and allow them to express themselves however, with whatever clothes, toys, etc. they choose. If the gender variance is still present by pre-teens (fully acknowledging the possibility that it might not be), talk to some experts and consider puberty blockers, either before puberty, or once the kid's had the chance to briefly try their natural puberty, as per the kid's choice. At 16-18 depending on local laws they can then go on to HRT.

If all of this is stemming from the mother and not the kid in any way, fuck that. TL;DR, get a neutral third party (neither mum nor dad), preferably a specialist, to talk to the kid and see what's going on.

I'm sick of all the misinformation about trans people and gender dysphoria. I'm sick of people tossing out false statistics about people like myself committing suicide "anyway." We are real people, not a hot topic for you to spout your brainless opinions about.

FWIW am trans, knew from when I was about 5, I started transitioning at 21 (couldn't start at 18 due to 3+ year waiting list, and when I was under 18 I was living in a severely transphobic country with severely transphobic parents.) Even as I am now, not 100% perfect, transitioning was absolutely, without a doubt, the right thing to do. I had never felt normal and mentally healthy like I do now, for the first 21 years of my life straight. It is still mind-boggling for me to realise that most people don't think about killing themselves multiple times a day, starting from childhood. I straight up unlocked an entire emotional spectrum I never knew I had.

My ONLY gripe regarding gender dysphoria nowadays is the fact that I had to go through the wrong puberty. It's fucked the shape and skeletal structure of my body for life (and subsequently, my confidence and how I feel about myself.) People saying "it's just cosmetics"/"they can wait" are utterly clueless.

The trans kid debate gets me riled because I, like many others, am a victim of never having had the choice to do anything about it, even something as benign as blockers.

 

[notimp]

puberty blockers until adulthood

Not possible? You should take them for four years at most and puberty sets in a 11-12 years of age.

f all of this is stemming from the mother and not the kid in any way, fuck that. TL;DR, get a neutral third party (neither mum nor dad), preferably a specialist, to talk to the kid and see what's going on.

Not likely possible. That deference of responsibility would be very hard to build an independent advisory body around. Basically, if at later stages 40% of the people your assessment was not correct on would attempt suicide, its hard to imagine many people wanting to put on that burden.

Also independent sense of self is an issue, see f.e.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216782/

 

[AmandaRose]

Here is a little something for all of you spouting nonsense about puberty blockers.

https://www.gendergp.com/debunking-the-myths-surrounding-puberty-blockers-trans-kids/