Hacking Devolution Speculation thread

[wiismodrome]

If you choose for ntfs when you started with your harddisk, try to admit you made a mistake, repartition it and get over it.
It will give you the opportunity to remove the stuff you never use as well, and all files will be nicely defragmented.

It's not a mistake.

Other USB loaders and WiiMC all support NTFS, and many users already have a substantial amount of data already stored on thousands of NTFS drives. Personally, I don't have the space on my PC to copy over all of the data which is presently on my 1 TB external drive. Up until now, no modern release of a USB loader has required users to revert back to FAT32. Why is the user supposedly at fault for having adopted standards which have been well supported by other major Wii applications for several years now?

Rather, IMO, what is a mistake is not to support a file system which is currently used by a significant percentage of one's potential user base. If/when it gets released, Devolution will be the first major USB loader from the past several years which does not support NTFS (DM will not either, but that appears to be more of a real technical limitation than an ideological issue).

 

[crwys]

If you choose for ntfs when you started with your harddisk, try to admit you made a mistake, repartition it and get over it.
It will give you the opportunity to remove the stuff you never use as well, and all files will be nicely defragmented.

It's not a mistake.

Other USB loaders and WiiMC all support NTFS, and many users already have a substantial amount of data already stored on thousands of NTFS drives. Personally, I don't have the space on my PC to copy over all of the data which is presently on my 1 TB external drive. Up until now, no modern release of a USB loader has required users to revert back to FAT32. Why is the user supposedly at fault for having adopted standards which have been well supported by other major Wii applications for several years now?

Rather, IMO, what is a mistake is not to support a file system which is currently used by a significant percentage of one's potential user base. If/when it gets released, Devolution will be the first major USB loader from the past several years which does not support NTFS (DM will not either, but that appears to be more of a real technical limitation than an ideological issue).

Um first of all you can convert your drive so you don't have to copy files over.
Second it can be a mistake if you run into a situation where you need to use your drive on:
DM
Mac
Linux
Android
PS3
And so on.

 

[SanGor]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

 

[KiiWii]

PS3s don't support NTFS.

+1 Sangor.

I'm not bothered if you do add NTFS but I believe you are slightly wrong on your point Tueidj

► PFS / NTFS Driver : Switch between FAT32 and NTFS mounting method for the external HDD. You need to create your own USB.CFG file first.

USB.CFG : A config file used to enable NTFS support in multiMAN.

Step 9. [optional] If you want NTFS support, create your own USB.CFG file and copy it to the root of your USB device too. It will be automatically transfered into multiMAN internal folder upon launch.
See NTFS support to create your own file.

Taken from Cyans thread for multiman on PS3: http://gbatemp.net/topic/291170-multiman-beginners-guide/

 

[tueidj]

I wasn't aware multiman was official PS3 software.

 

[wiismodrome]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

 

[crwys]

I wasn't aware multiman was official PS3 software.

Not to mention NTFS on Multiman has limitations.
Something about read-only?

 

[pepxl]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software. the fact is FAT32 has a user base of close to 75%, WBFS 20% and NTFS 5%.

Which would you incorporate bearing in mind this is for Wii and not any OS?

 

[dmonkey21]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software. the fact is FAT32 has a user base of close to 75%, WBFS 20% and NTFS 5%.

Which would you incorporate bearing in mind this is for Wii and not any OS?

Lol I'd love to know how you came up with such bogus statistics...

Anyway this a ridiculous argument. It doesn't matter "which YOU would incorporate" because, guess what, you aren't developing the damn thing! Regardless of what any of us thinks the merits of a certain filesystem might be the fact of the matter is that you are right and EVERYONE in this thread (not excluding you lol) is just arguing about things that they have absolutely no say in.

Also, why not exFat? /troll

 

[wiismodrome]

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software.

A developer can do whatever they want, but somewhere in the process should be some consideration of who they are developing for. If we look at this as analogous to marketing a product, it is generally a good strategy to create a product which suits the needs of as many customers as possible instead of only catering to a sub-section of the market.

 

[crwys]

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software.

A developer can do whatever they want, but somewhere in the process should be some consideration of who they are developing for. If we look at this as analogous to marketing a product, it is generally a good strategy to create a product which suits the needs of as many customers as possible instead of only catering to a sub-section of the market.

Rofl he is doing this for him self.
He doesn't have to take any consideration for anything. If you don't like it then don't use it.
And maybe we should do a poll to see how many people actually use NTFS and Fat32.
There is no marketing here, he isn't selling it. (As far as I know)

 

[SifJar]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Bear in mind the chances of either of them caring are slim. I believe both are probably doing this mainly for themselves. Pretty sure tueidj at least has stated that before, not 100% sure about crediar. They are releasing to the community in the hopes someone will find it useful. Not as some sort of public service where they will cater to every want and desire of any "potential" user to get the user count up on their app.

At least, this is the impression I have received. Perhaps I am wrong. But I am certainly pretty sure neither will be adding NTFS support, just because a few "potential" users feel "alienated" by lack of support.

 

[WiiUBricker]

I see this has become a FAT vs. NTFS debate thread. Perhaps we can conclude this - as already said - pointless discussion by telling it like it is:

DM: No NTFS due to not enough memory
DV: No NTFS due to the lack of a non-GPL'ed NTFS lib

No NTFS support is certainly something you can be displeased about, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Lol I'd love to know how you came up with such bogus statistics...

Well, now you can all participate in a poll that will give us better statistics to go off of.

Join us HERE, and stop making this thread go way off topic for something that is not going to happen anyways.

 

[pepxl]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software. the fact is FAT32 has a user base of close to 75%, WBFS 20% and NTFS 5%.

Which would you incorporate bearing in mind this is for Wii and not any OS?

Lol I'd love to know how you came up with such bogus statistics...

Knowing the history of USBloaders and the restrictions on the file systems on the Wii for one would make it pretty obvious how these close to reality "statistics" were made.

 

[PsyBlade]

DV: No NTFS due to the lack of a non-GPL'ed NTFS lib

additionally simply writing the support from scratch in not realisticly possible
while this works for simple fs like fat and wbfs it will not do for ntfs
the gpl ntfs lib took about a decade to reach maturity and had much more (good) people working on it

 

[the_randomizer]

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Like NTFS is useful for gamecube games. No ISO image would exceed 1.35GB anyway, so why use it? The games would never exceed the 4GB limit.

WBFS is useless, NTFS has compatibility issues with many Wii programs, and the whole "32GB partition limit with FAT32" is BS. My HDD is one big 500GB FAT32 partition and it works just fine. Wii games too big? They're split/compressed and work just fine.

 

[Jacobeian]

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

well, if that get ride of lazy users who can't even bother formatting a FAT32 partition, why should he care ?

More seriously, I don't get this fuss about NTFS support either.
In my opinion, it should support whatever is the most optimized for its purpose, which is running Gamecube games in Wii mode
If FAT32 does the job just fine without the need of extra libraries or additional memory usage that NTFS support requires and if NTFS does not bring any advantages beside making lazy user's life easier, then I say scrap NTFS support, I'm fine with FAT32

 

[SifJar]

I say scrap NTFS support

It's not a case of scrapping it, it's not there in the first place

 

[Maxternal]

Personally, I'll limit my laziness to putting all my games on a hard drive so I don't have to get up and walk over to the TV to change games.
I recognize it takes a lot of work, anyway, to get them all on the hard drive so a little format conversion and, maybe, backing up everything over 4gb first, doesn't seem to hurt.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and they thereby can decide if they want to be "alienated" or not.

To express everyone's opinion:
Let's all go over to the drive format thread, vote and discuss.
The thread's new enough so there's only like 34 votes on it so far so go vote and rave about it all you want there so we all have some ACCURATE statistics to go by.
If you don't vote you can't complain that the statistics are inaccurate. If it doesn't reflect your personal opinion, it's your fault because you and others like you didn't vote.