Analogue - the company behind the revered Analogue Pocket have announced their latest product, the Analogue 3D.

The Analogue 3D is an FPGA based home console capable of playing N64 cartridges but sporting modern technical capabilities such as 4K output, Bluetooth and 2.4ghz wireless controller support and more. As it is an FPGA solution, this means that the emulation is done at a hardware level - not software. The chips are programmed to emulate hardware functions directly instead of relying on software or higher level code to do so which often results in improved accuracy and latency.

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The Analogue 3D promises "100% compatibility" across all software and much like the Pocket, will offer different display modes - using "reference quality recreations of specific model CRT’s and PVM’s" these display modes intend to mimic the output of an original N64 producing results that original hardware would have displayed at the time.

Analogue 3D

• Wireless Bluetooth and 2.4g.
• 4 original-style controller ports.
• Completely engineered in FPGA.
• Analogue OS.

No emulation.

• A reimagining of the N64.
• 4K resolution.
• Original Display Modes.
• Reference quality recreations of specific model CRT’s and PVM’s.

The first and only aftermarket solution supporting 100% compatibility in every region. USA, EU & JP. Coming in 2024.

Details are scarce right now but we will cover more on the Analogue 3D in the future and will hopefully be reviewing the product some time next year.

Source

 

[Avalyn]

Meh, the mister does n64 now

 

[BastarB]

Nice to see this, but I think I will save all my money for the announced Mars fpga console instead.

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Meh, the mister does n64 now

Yeah, exactly what I thought, and the mister is even running on decade old hardware...

 

[Lodad]

Man, I really only care about something like this if it can rip saves, cost as much or less than the price of hdmi-modding a real n64, or if it can play backups without a flash cart.

 

[orangy57]

i'm interested to see the development but this doesn't seem as impressive as the analogue pocket IMO. The pocket's home run features were the link cable compatibility, that crazy good screen, and the filters for the screen that could emulate the original displays.

Will follow to see how well this goes tho considering that there's a lot that can go wrong with N64 stuff. Analogue has a good track record so far of making polished hardware & software with steep prices, i'd be impressed if they manage support for controller paks and stuff

 

[Hanafuda]

I'll probably buy one, or try to anyway. But I wish Analogue would make an NES box similar to the Super NT, i.e. simple plastic housing, not a machined aluminum sculpture, and keep it around $180, not $480 like the NES/Famicom models they've sold in very limited numbers so far.

 

[spinal_cord]

but how will n64 games look in 4k without HD texture packs?

Something like this...

You can HDMI (DVI-D + audio technically) mod a real N64 for under £20 With the Pico-DVI N64 software.

 

[raxadian]

Most people just want a controller with a stick that doesn't break for the Nintendo 64.

 

[Socke81]

As it is an FPGA solution, this means that the emulation is done at a hardware level - not software.

Always this nonsense.
Emulation on a Windows PC: Emulator -> Windows -> DirectX/Opengl -> Driver -> Hardware.

Emulation on FPGA: Emulator -> Hardware.

That is the difference. You save a lot of software layers. But it is still a software emulator. So comparable to a firmware. If the emulation would be in hardware there would be no update possibility except the exchange of the hardware.

 

[Bladexdsl]

Something like this...

fuck me that's looks terrible. unless this thing can support texture packs it will be pointless playing n64 in 4k

 

[spinal_cord]

fuck me that's looks terrible. unless this thing can support texture packs it will be pointless playing n64 in 4k

It's only outputting 640x480 (doubled from 320x240) my TV has terrible upscalling and blurs everything. On a true HDMI output, it would be a lot crisper.

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Always this nonsense.
Emulation on a Windows PC: Emulator -> Windows -> DirectX/Opengl -> Driver -> Hardware.

Emulation on FPGA: Emulator -> Hardware.

That is the difference. You save a lot of software layers. But it is still a software emulator. So comparable to a firmware. If the emulation would be in hardware there would be no update possibility except the exchange of the hardware.

It's emulating exactly what the physical hardware does at an electrical level. Software emulation only emulates an aproximation of what the hardware is expected to do. FPGA is not software emulation, it is hardware, it is not the software running on the processor, nor is it software pretending to be a processor, it is a direct hardware model of the processor.

 

[Kitocco]

I'd probably have more need for this if I didn't get our childhood N64 modded with an N64Digital last year (and wasn't planning on getting a BlueRetro adapter), but great to see this once considered impossible platform get the FPGA treatment along with other systems!
Shame that after just one system they seem to have dropped openFPGA already. No mention of it on the Duo or here.

Well, hopefully a JB comes or it retains full flashcard compstibility. (Shoutout to krikzz, what an amazing piece of tech in that ED64 cart - able to play NES, GB/C, and N64)

 

[Hanafuda]

fuck me that's looks terrible. unless this thing can support texture packs it will be pointless playing n64 in 4k

It's only outputting 640x480 (doubled from 320x240) my TV has terrible upscalling and blurs everything. On a true HDMI output, it would be a lot crisper.

I was gonna say, I get a better N64 picture than that running S-video from the 64 to the Framemeister, and 720p scaled over hdmi to the TV.

I have a spare 64 and an RGB board for it, but I've never bothered doing the mod cuz I've seen enough to know it doesn't really look any better than s-video on 64 due to all the filters etc.

 

[dudeguy2022]

I might have looked forward to this if I was a decade older

 

[squeakycleanswine]

well this is something to look forward to! skipped out on the pocket but this one has peaked my interest

 

[kineticUk]

It's emulating exactly what the physical hardware does at an electrical level. Software emulation only emulates an aproximation of what the hardware is expected to do. FPGA is not software emulation, it is hardware, it is not the software running on the processor, nor is it software pretending to be a processor, it is a direct hardware model of the processor.

It’s attempting to emulate exactly what the original hardware does using an fpga. It’s not exactly because fpga vs. approximately because software (analogue’s marketing bs). The fpga has to be programmed too.

 

[Coto]

Always this nonsense.
Emulation on a Windows PC: Emulator -> Windows -> DirectX/Opengl -> Driver -> Hardware.

Emulation on FPGA: Emulator -> Hardware.

That is the difference. You save a lot of software layers. But it is still a software emulator. So comparable to a firmware. If the emulation would be in hardware there would be no update possibility except the exchange of the hardware.

@shaunj66 is correct. You're not emulating per se in FPGA/Verilog code, instead, you're replicating processors timings to real hardware (or LLE in emulation code). And FPGA excels at that. Not even running an hypervisor would get you that much timing compatibility as wire-level implementation.

It's emulating exactly what the physical hardware does at an electrical level. Software emulation only emulates an aproximation of what the hardware is expected to do. FPGA is not software emulation, it is hardware, it is not the software running on the processor, nor is it software pretending to be a processor, it is a direct hardware model of the processor.

This.

 

[Snintendog]

It’s attempting to emulate exactly what the original hardware does using an fpga. It’s not exactly because fpga vs. approximately because software (analogue’s marketing bs). The fpga has to be programmed too.

Emulation Via Hardware AKA its making an electronical REPLICA of the hardware That then the Top Layer controls its IO. This means the EMU-H doesnt jump through ANY hoops that EMU-S has to due to Hardware and Instructions that CANT be translated 1to1 in computer architecture. Also EMU-H isnt forced to do things in Sequence but rather how the ORIGINAL hardware does it.... Lets put it this way FPGA is the Only way to get the DUAL CPU of Saturn to Truly run Concurrently.

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Man, I really only care about something like this if it can rip saves, cost as much or less than the price of hdmi-modding a real n64, or if it can play backups without a flash cart.

I think the Mister can interface with Cartridge Readers now some guy was doing a "polymega too expensive" series and was using cheap USB to NES or the Retrode to Read the Carts directly Then Run Save Scripts to transfer the cart save and the Mister Save. I havent seen any of his vids for a few months since the Genesis video on that.

 

[fvig2001]

It's not for me since I have a MiSTer already and it's on track to get good compatibility and already plays well. It mostly replaces N64 HDMI at this point.

Wonder how this will do 4k upscaling since N64 is blurry AF. It will have to disable VI stuff like the MiSTer but it will still be 240p and that's like 9x smaller than 4k. It will have to have some kind of logic to upscale texture and display 3d models to be upscaled at 9x.

With regards to I can just use a software emulator, you can but the difference with FPGA and real hardware is that:

1. It's easy to use like the real thing
2. 0 input latency on the device (Probably impossible to do on software emulators due to how USB interfaces on OS level and software has no direct access (Retroarch's advance frame is buggy imo (specially on games that are like megaman) but I guess it kind of cheats it). Although using BT will add like 1-2 frames of input lag though.

The advantage of this thing would be you can use your cartridges, it can natively connect to HDMI, probably has features not supported by N64 such as allow widescreen (either patches or display parts outside 4:3, auto ips patching. So in some ways, it could be a deal vs a recapped + n64 hdmi (It was $1000 before). Though not by much since a cheaper proper HDMI solution was made and prices have gone down to like $650.

Curious what they mean by "Original Display Modes." Like 240p is not supported by HDMI TVs and probably HDMI too. I guess it could just mean it will implement the vaseline effect. It could also mean it has weird filters of its own like forced cellshading or something

 

[kineticUk]

@shaunj66 is correct.

Nah they’re not but whatever.

 

[Jayro]

I've been wanting this for over a decade; a 1:1 hardware clone (or as-close-to as possible) of an N64. I hope to GAWD that this thing is under $400USD, but it will likely be $500 USD.... Time to start saving up.

This thing and a Boxy Pixel Hinged SP are my two projects for 2024 so far, but damn... They're both gonna be expensive.

Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2023

It's not for me since I have a MiSTer already and it's on track to get good compatibility and already plays well. It mostly replaces N64 HDMI at this point.

Wonder how this will do 4k upscaling since N64 is blurry AF. It will have to disable VI stuff like the MiSTer but it will still be 240p and that's like 9x smaller than 4k. It will have to have some kind of logic to upscale texture and display 3d models to be upscaled at 9x.

With regards to I can just use a software emulator, you can but the difference with FPGA and real hardware is that:

1. It's easy to use like the real thing
2. 0 input latency on the device (Probably impossible to do on software emulators due to how USB interfaces on OS level and software has no direct access (Retroarch's advance frame is buggy imo (specially on games that are like megaman) but I guess it kind of cheats it). Although using BT will add like 1-2 frames of input lag though.

The advantage of this thing would be you can use your cartridges, it can natively connect to HDMI, probably has features not supported by N64 such as allow widescreen (either patches or display parts outside 4:3, auto ips patching. So in some ways, it could be a deal vs a recapped + n64 hdmi (It was $1000 before). Though not by much since a cheaper proper HDMI solution was made and prices have gone down to like $650.

Curious what they mean by "Original Display Modes." Like 240p is not supported by HDMI TVs and probably HDMI too. I guess it could just mean it will implement the vaseline effect. It could also mean it has weird filters of its own like forced cellshading or something

I'm willing to bet that there's one of two things going on inside... Either they built-in an upscaler using another FPGA, or the main FPGA is just god-like powerful and can internally render the games at something like 720p/1080p and then upscale the rest of the way. I dunno, but I'm excited. It could be what Mazamars has been working on in secret, because his twitter went dark on his FPGA N64 project after he finished the RDP core. So I'm willing to bet he's been contracted by Analogue for a few years now under development of this thing, and is likely under an NDA. The man is a fucking genius, and also ports cores to the Analogue Pocket in his free time, so it's not that much of a stretch. Robert, the guy making the N64 core for the MiSTer is also doing an incredible job getting his core in tip-top-shape in just a few short months! He's been an absolute MACHINE lately!!! (I watch his progress on Pixel Cherry Ninja's YouTube channel.)