Hacking Quick 11.3 question

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
Define "normal" people. Luma Updater straight-up tells you when you update how to recover from problems that may arise from an update. You don't need to lecture me on the general rules of under-development software - I think it's pretty obvious that I know these things.

As far as I know, you cannot get an unrecoverable brick from just updating Luma. I could be wrong, but the point is that there is a backup in place, people should keep regular NAND backups anyway, there are already a slew of other options they have for "accidentally" bricking their systems - if this is too much for someone to handle, they shouldn't have their 3DS in the first place. If you can't read and/or do something stupid because you're playing with fire, that is your own fault.

As for your question, obviously I cannot be held responsible for such a thing.

For the record, not all software that is in development should be avoided. Just because it isn't a stable release does not mean it is going to destroy your system.

As far as I'm concerned, if you manage to brick your 3DS these days beyond the point of recovery, you are an imbecile who shouldn't be allowed near a computer to begin with.

It's just my example. I know that fact that people won't get brick by Luma3DS by using latest hourly.
But, doesn't mean people won't get a problem, you said this yourself.
Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem, everyone will be safe. That's how misinformation is spread.

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
It's just my example. I know that fact that people won't get brick by Luma3DS by using latest hourly.
But, doesn't mean people won't get a problem, you said this yourself.
Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem, everyone will be safe. That's how misinformation is spread.

Haha, very funny, trying to use my own phrasing against me. Except you're not as clever as you think. I never assumed people would have no problem. I assumed people would have no unrecoverable problems. Because if they do, it's highly likely they did something stupid, and that stupid thing is not updating to the latest hourly of Luma.

Also, you can't state something as a fact then say it's an example. That doesn't make any sense. We're talking about updating one thing, not updating a myriad of things therefore opening up the possibility of such a problem.

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
Haha, very funny, trying to use my own phrasing against me. Except you're not as clever as you think. I never assumed people would have no problem. I assumed people would have no unrecoverable problems. Because if they do, it's highly likely they did something stupid, and that stupid thing is not updating to the latest hourly of Luma.

Also, you can't state something as a fact then say it's an example. That doesn't make any sense. We're talking about updating one thing, not updating a myriad of things therefore opening up the possibility of such a problem.

And that's why normal people shouldn't use latest hourly of Luma.
I just put unrecoverable brick as an example that people can get a problem using something unfinish.
That problem can be big such as lose A9LH (FIRM0/1 in latest hourly is broken) or small one.
I put "unrecoverable" because I want to know if it's "Big", would you kindly be a resiponsible?

So, again, Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem, everyone will be safe.
When that software is in beta. That's how misinformation is spread.

Temptress Cerise · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
Haha, very funny, trying to use my own phrasing against me. Except you're not as clever as you think. I never assumed people would have no problem. I assumed people would have no unrecoverable problems. Because if they do, it's highly likely they did something stupid, and that stupid thing is not updating to the latest hourly of Luma.

Also, you can't state something as a fact then say it's an example. That doesn't make any sense. We're talking about updating one thing, not updating a myriad of things therefore opening up the possibility of such a problem.

Have the Luma3DS devs said people should be using the Hourly//Nightly builds?

The only times they have sort of told or advised people (edit: and I am pretty sure they never have, just the guide and the community did) to use them was when Aurora didn't have her 3DS to fully test and push out a stable. And even then, she was trying to get it back in her hands, so she could push out a stable release. Since hourly//nightly builds have in the past been broken. It was actually funny, cause everyone kept saying//spouting use the nightly//hourly, they're good, and one nightly actually caused a lot of issues, and since every "normal" user kept hearing it was OK, that caused them to have issues.

Now, it's easy to revert the updates to Luma3DS, so it wasn't a problem. But there's an actual reason they are hourly//nightly builds, and not stable builds.

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
And that's why normal people shouldn't use latest hourly of Luma.
I just put unrecoverable brick as an example that people can get a problem using something unfinish.
That problem can be big such as lose A9LH (FIRM0/1 in latest hourly is broken) or small one.
I put "unrecoverable" because I want to know if it's "Big", would you kindly be a resiponsible?

So, again, Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem, everyone will be safe.
When that software is in beta. That's how misinformation is spread.

I already clearly stated you don't need to keep updating, but the latest hourly is safe, so it's okay to update to if you want the proper 11.3 support.

You made a big deal with your "examples", making it sound like you knew it'd cause a brick. It won't. I'm not saying other releases couldn't cause problems, but the current latest hourly is fine, and it's easy to revert Luma. And we're talking about Luma, remember, not A9LH or anything else. Only Luma.

Again, I obviously wouldn't take responsibility for someone's own actions. That's just stupid. Everyone is capable of making decisions for themselves. It's like people pressuring others into doing drugs or something like that, then blaming those people. No, you chose to give into that pressure; it's your fault. That doesn't mean other people aren't to blame, but you're more than capable of deciding on your own.

But it sounds like you want a scapegoat for a problem that doesn't even exist. Again, I'm not assuming no one will have a problem because I don't. I'm assuming that anyone who is sensible will weigh the risks vs. the rewards and make their own decisions, and by letting people know for a fact that the current build works safely, they can update, have the latest compatibility, and not worry about other problems. At the end of the day, though, it's on each individual to police themselves.

Now stop trying to twist my words to make an argument on which you don't even have a leg to stand on.

Temptress Cerise said:
Have the Luma3DS devs said people should be using the Hourly//Nightly builds?

The only times they have sort of told or advised people (edit: and I am pretty sure they never have, just the guide and the community did) to use them was when Aurora didn't have her 3DS to fully test and push out a stable. And even then, she was trying to get it back in her hands, so she could push out a stable release. Since hourly//nightly builds have in the past been broken. It was actually funny, cause everyone kept saying//spouting use the nightly//hourly, they're good, and one nightly actually caused a lot of issues, and since every "normal" user kept hearing it was OK, that caused them to have issues.

Now, it's easy to revert the updates to Luma3DS, so it wasn't a problem. But there's an actual reason they are hourly//nightly builds, and not stable builds.

I don't know, but trust me, I know why they're not stable builds, and again, I'm not saying anyone should just update willy-nilly. But right now, it's safe to update, and it offers compatibility for 11.3 that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for people to just keep updating to every hourly build that is released. That is obviously not a good idea. But currently, it's okay, and since there hasn't been a stable release for some time but people are updating to 11.3 and having compatibility issues, this is a solution for people who want it, and Luma updates can be reverted easily now - and we are talking about now, not the past, so it's irrelevant that it wasn't always this easy (but again, I agree that you shouldn't just update to every unstable build that is released, because that does cause problems, hence why I even went out of my way to say you should just install the current hourly and then leave it on that build).

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
I already clearly stated you don't need to keep updating, but the latest hourly is safe, so it's okay to update to if you want the proper 11.3 support.

You made a big deal with your "examples", making it sound like you knew it'd cause a brick. It won't. I'm not saying other releases couldn't cause problems, but the current latest hourly is fine, and it's easy to revert Luma. And we're talking about Luma, remember, not A9LH or anything else. Only Luma.

Again, I obviously wouldn't take responsibility for someone's own actions. That's just stupid. Everyone is capable of making decisions for themselves. It's like people pressuring others into doing drugs or something like that, then blaming those people. No, you chose to give into that pressure; it's your fault. That doesn't mean other people aren't to blame, but you're more than capable of deciding on your own.

But it sounds like you want a scapegoat for a problem that doesn't even exist. Again, I'm not assuming no one will have a problem because I don't. I'm assuming that anyone who is sensible will weigh the risks vs. the rewards and make their own decisions, and by letting people know for a fact that the current build works safely, they can update, have the latest compatibility, and not worry about other problems. At the end of the day, though, it's on each individual to police themselves.

Now stop trying to twist my words to make an argument on which you don't even have a leg to stand on.

You claim that something is safe, suggesting people to do it.
But you wouldn't take responsibility for someone's own actions that come from your suggestion without explaining that it has a risk?

Again, Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem with lastest hourly, everyone will not face the problem.
When that software is in beta. That's how misinformation is spread. If you want to advise people to using lastest hourly,
you have to take responsibility to your word, or explain the risk to them. Not all users know what is lastest hourly build.

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
You claim that something is safe, suggesting people to do it.
But you wouldn't take responsibility for someone's own actions that come from your suggestion without explaining that it has a risk?

Again, Please don't assume that just because you don't have a problem with lastest hourly, everyone will not face the problem.
When that software is in beta. That's how misinformation is spread. If you want to advise people to using lastest hourly,
you have to take responsibility to your word, or explain the risk to them. Not all users know what is lastest hourly build.

Are you serious right now? I don't even think you know what you're spouting at this point.

It is safe, but that doesn't mean I should take responsibility for other people's actions. Or are you dumb?

FYI, I'm not explaining this to anyone but you. The risk is pretty much non-existent since it's easy to recover, but if I were explaining this to someone else, then yes, I would let them know what the risks are. Basically none in this case, but okay. Now get the hell off your high horse and shut up.

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
Are you serious right now? I don't even think you know what you're spouting at this point.

It is safe, but that doesn't mean I should take responsibility for other people's actions. Or are you dumb?

FYI, I'm not explaining this to anyone but you. The risk is pretty much non-existent since it's easy to recover, but if I were explaining this to someone else, then yes, I would let them know what the risks are. Basically none in this case, but okay. Now get the hell off your high horse and shut up.

Face a problem > can be recovering = No risk then? Since the problem is the one that call risk for me.
I agree that we should stop arguing since look like we have different viewpoint about what we should call "risk"?

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
Face a problem > can be recovering = No risk then? Since the problem is the one that call risk for me.
I agree that we should stop arguing since look like we have different viewpoint about what we should call "risk"?

I wouldn't really call an easily-solvable problem a "risk". I suppose you could technically define it as one, but since it's reversible and solvable, the risk is moot. A proper risk would be a hardmod, for example.

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
I wouldn't really call an easily-solvable problem a "risk". I suppose you could technically define it as one, but since it's reversible and solvable, the risk is moot. A proper risk would be a hardmod, for example.

No matter how small it is, a risk is a risk. Not everyone is an expert like you.
Sometimes when they have a problem, they may be panicking and screw more than that small risk.

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
No matter how small it is, a risk is a risk. Not everyone is an expert like you.
Sometimes when they have a problem, they may be panicking and screw more than that small risk.

So now you want to actually argue semantics of the word "risk"? Ugh.

Look, Luma Updater tells you how to revert to an older version is something goes wrong. Are you saying that people can't read these days? Or that people who don't read should be treated like special snowflakes just because they're too idiotic to pay attention to basic warnings?

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
So now you want to actually argue semantics of the word "risk"? Ugh.

Look, Luma Updater tells you how to revert to an older version is something goes wrong. Are you saying that people can't read these days? Or that people who don't read should be treated like special snowflakes just because they're too idiotic to pay attention to basic warnings?

I saw people who not good with english here. That's why plailect decide to allow people to do the translation for his guide.

And Not all people using luma updater, I saw people come here without know it that app exist ask for Luma3DS update.
Don't think other people is stupid. again, Not everyone is an expert like you, not every expert in reading english.

I argue with you because you start suggesting people to use an unstable build (that the dev themselves not suggesting using it)
without explain anything include a risk.
And pointing that HBL doesn't have a problem when people using the stable build one, which is normal setting people mostly using it.
Call people lies.

But, we should stop since I don't think you will understand my point, and I don't think I will understand yours either.

TankedThomas · Feb 22, 2017

nechigawara said:
I saw people who not good with english here. That's why plailect decide to allow people to do the translation for his guide.

And Not all people using luma updater, I saw people come here without know it that app exist ask for Luma3DS update.
Don't think other people is stupid. again, Not everyone is an expert like you, not every expert in reading english.

I argue with you because you start suggesting people to use an unstable build (that the dev themselves not suggesting using it)
without explain anything include a risk.
And pointing that HBL doesn't have a problem when people using the stable build one, which is normal setting people mostly using it.
Call people lies.

But, we should stop since I don't think you will understand my point, and I don't think I will understand yours either.

I understand your points, but they're wrong.

If people who don't know English very well follow the advice of someone speaking a language they don't understand well (in this case, English) or have trouble follow a guide because of its language, then they should be asking for help from people who speak their own language, of which there are plenty of other, foreign sites out there for.

Frankly, I think most people are stupid, because honestly, most people are. Maybe I'm stupid too. But common sense and personal responsibility go a long way, so people should use some. Since people can't, we end up with half the threads we do on GBAtemp.

nechigawara · Feb 22, 2017

TCJJ said:
I understand your points, but they're wrong.

If people who don't know English very well follow the advice of someone speaking a language they don't understand well (in this case, English) or have trouble follow a guide because of its language, then they should be asking for help from people who speak their own language, of which there are plenty of other, foreign sites out there for.

Frankly, I think most people are stupid, because honestly, most people are. Maybe I'm stupid too. But common sense and personal responsibility go a long way, so people should use some. Since people can't, we end up with half the threads we do on GBAtemp.

Not all people install the hax themselves. That's why I'm not agree with thinking people stupid.
They have a right to don't know, and the people who know should point them the correct way, even though that way is just telling them to do google search.

TankedThomas · Feb 23, 2017

nechigawara said:
Not all people install the hax themselves. That's why I'm not agree with thinking people stupid.
They have a right to don't know, and the people who know should point them the correct way, even though that way is just telling them to do google search.

That's the most absurd thing I've heard all week (thankfully, someone said something far more absurd - actually, many things, in succession - to me last week, so you've got no competition there).

If you let someone else hack your system, it's still your system and therefore still your responsibility. If you don't understand how all these new-fangled hacks on your system work, then perhaps you shouldn't get it hacked to begin with.

Hell, I helped a friend hack his 3DS, but I explained the entire process to him and explained how it works, the risks involved etc.

Anyway, I don't remember if it was this thread or another, but I've already mentioned searching for answers, and the basic rule of thumb for a friggin' human being should be that if you don't know something, ask or look up the answer. Anyone who doesn't know how to look up the answer to something they don't know is stupid. No one should have to tell them to use Google. They should be able to figure that much out for themselves at the very least. Or are you telling me that people are incapable of thinking for themselves and, at the very least, coming to a logical conclusion of "I don't know the answer so I should look it up which will only take a second of my time"?

nechigawara · Feb 23, 2017

TCJJ said:
That's the most absurd thing I've heard all week (thankfully, someone said something far more absurd - actually, many things, in succession - to me last week, so you've got no competition there).

If you let someone else hack your system, it's still your system and therefore still your responsibility. If you don't understand how all these new-fangled hacks on your system work, then perhaps you shouldn't get it hacked to begin with.

Hell, I helped a friend hack his 3DS, but I explained the entire process to him and explained how it works, the risks involved etc.

Anyway, I don't remember if it was this thread or another, but I've already mentioned searching for answers, and the basic rule of thumb for a friggin' human being should be that if you don't know something, ask or look up the answer. Anyone who doesn't know how to look up the answer to something they don't know is stupid. No one should have to tell them to use Google. They should be able to figure that much out for themselves at the very least. Or are you telling me that people are incapable of thinking for themselves and, at the very least, coming to a logical conclusion of "I don't know the answer so I should look it up which will only take a second of my time"?

Some people just want to pirate, don't bother to learn and think that they can just let some one do it for them. Don't know a risk. They are many kind of people in the community. So please don't consider them stupid just because they don't know.

About "I don't know the answer so I should look it up which will only take a second of my time", that's what I agree that people should do researh themselves if they want to do something with risk. But, again, not all people know where they should look or the keyword for google searching, just take your time helping them if you're willing is enough.

Majickhat55 · Feb 23, 2017

I think the point is, most people are idiots. When you have people that don't even know to turn off their 3DS when it freezes and make a new thread, telling them to use nightlies is basically a catcall for more unnecessary bullshit. Yes, it's simple as hell to revert to the old version of Luma and fix a problem with a nightly (Luma updater saves your old .bin, for you for that very purpose). The problem is, the majority of noobies have no common sense so when or if there IS an issue, instead of just reverting they make a new thread for all kinds of things that may or may not be related, but you know since updating was the LAST thing they did everyone assumes causation=correlation when it doesn't always. I don't know about you but when I give noobs advice, I urge them to use stable releases so they aren't coming back in 20 minutes, after they bricked because they freaked out and did all sorts of nonsense because they got a blackscreen on boot. THAT'S why.

EDIT: It doesn't matter one bit whether or not people SHOULD be able to look stuff up on their own, the fact is they don't. Period. You can link the damn site itself and they'll still ask you to upload the program for them. The expectations are completely reasonable but unrealistic, noobs don't care that much.

Eddie McArdle · Feb 23, 2017

Everyone chill, I updated to 11.3, then used 'homebr3w' browser thing to update my homebrew launcher and it worked perfectly, problem solved

Appreciate everyones help

nechigawara · Feb 23, 2017

Eddie McArdle said:
Everyone chill, I updated to 11.3, then used 'homebr3w' browser thing to update my homebrew launcher and it worked perfectly, problem solved Appreciate everyones help

Glad everythings work out!!

OrGoN3 · Feb 23, 2017

Shikkichu said:
The latest hourly fixes a lot of the stuttering issues I have, unless trying to play a n3ds game on my o3ds lol
commit: 5f8a612

OP just make sure you remember to update HBL cia, assuming you're on Luma, you should be good to go as long as you're on v6.6 or one of the hourly's

Yup, fixes most of the stuttering, but not all of it.

OP, as previously mentioned, if using HomeBrew Launcher, disable the speed patch in Luma or it won't load up. Or was that fixed in the nightlies?

Hacking Quick 11.3 question

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