Covid-19 vaccine

[Lacius]

This is a fake fact. Not taking the shot doesn't increase odds. This false logic is the crux of your false dilemma of "take the shot or you are killing people", which is utter shit.

Not investing in Gamestop made me poor.

I mean... I mean... relatively. Please don't be so disingenuous and argue for the sake of arguing.

Your odds of contracting the disease, getting seriously ill from the disease, and spreading the disease are significantly higher if you don't get vaccinated. This is a fact.

 

[tabzer]

Your odds of contracting the disease, getting seriously ill from the disease, and spreading the disease are significantly higher if you don't get vaccinated. This is a fact.

Humor me and quote the CDC on that. I'd like to see the source of your fact without the Lacius filter. For science.

 

[Lacius]

Humor me and quote the CDC on that. I'd like to see the source of your fact without the Lacius filter. For science.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

• COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective at preventing COVID-19 disease, especially severe illness and death.
• COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

 

[tabzer]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

• COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective at preventing COVID-19 disease, especially severe illness and death.
• COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

Okay, so you can't. Just say so.

Your odds of contracting the disease, getting seriously ill from the disease, and spreading the disease are significantly higher if you don't get vaccinated drown in a pool. This is a fact.

 

[Lacius]

Okay, so you can't. Just say so.

Your odds of contracting the disease, getting seriously ill from the disease, and spreading the disease are significantly higher if you don't get vaccinated drown in a pool. This is a fact.

We are talking about vaccination. Saying you can't get or spread the disease if you're not already alive contributes nothing of substance to the conversation.

 

[tabzer]

We are talking about vaccination. Saying you can't get or spread the disease if you're not already alive contributes nothing of substance to the conversation.

I'm addressing your propagandizing and constant misapplication of the word "fact" throughout this thread. The point is that the vaccine isn't the only mitigating variable and you can replace "get the vaccine" with many different words to get many different humorous "facts".

Your false dilemma of "take the shot or you are killing people", is utter shit.

 

[Lacius]

I'm addressing your propagandizing and constant misapplication of the word "fact" throughout this thread. The point is that the vaccine isn't the only mitigating variable and you can replace "get the vaccine" with many different words to get many different humorous "facts".

Your false dilemma of "take the shot or you are killing people", is utter shit.

We are talking about the vaccine though, lol.

 

[Nincompoopdo]

Can someone make a CFW for the vaccine? I want to customise the DNA modification codes, maybe it can also cure cancer.

 

[tabzer]

We are talking about the vaccine though, lol.

You were talking about not taking the vaccine. The source you linked to talked about taking the vaccine.

Your source: Taking the Vaccine -> Mitigation

is not the same as

Your "fact": No Taking the Vaccine -> No Mitigation

Here's a chart. (the left.)

Not taking the Vaccine makes mitigation or non-mitigation moot (undeterminable).

 

[Lacius]

You were talking about not taking the vaccine. The source you linked to talked about taking the vaccine.

Your source: Taking the Vaccine -> Mitigation

is not the same as

Your "fact": No Taking the Vaccine -> No Mitigation

View attachment 269621

Here's a chart. (the left.)

Not taking the Vaccine makes mitigation or non-mitigation moot (undeterminable).

The vaccine is the most effective way to reduce the chances of contracting and spreading the disease. If you do not get vaccinated, your odds of contracting and spreading the disease are significantly higher, regardless of other factors.

 

[tabzer]

The vaccine is the most effective way to reduce the chances of contracting and spreading the disease. If you do not get vaccinated, your odds of contracting and spreading the disease are significantly higher, regardless of other factors.

Your statement is obfuscation of the facts (source), not in support of them.

 

[Lacius]

Your statement is obfuscation of the facts (source), not in support of them.

Go back to my post where I listed 9 scientific facts and tell me which ones you agree/disagree with.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

Gov still does whatever they want regardless if you give them power or not

Yeah, but if the people would actually stand up to them like they should when they exert too much power when they forget they work for us, we wouldn't be in this situation. This is why the 2nd Amendment and other contingencies were made for.

 

[The Catboy]

GMOs, nuclear power, male-female differences and normally anti vaccine folks are left wing. Its all related to confirmation bias, people just deny what they don't want to be true. You also have to remember a large portion of social scientists are self proclaimed Marxists, Marxist theories are often easy to spot because they read more like parables from the bible than an actual scientific study. It's actually scary how mainstream anti science from the left is, you cant even question their theories without being attacked.

I also want to note that mainstream media only pretends to be left wing, they only look that way compared to lets say Newsmax or Fox News. They love this illusion, then you can't go further left then they are without being crazy (this is also why they like to focus on social issues their sponsors don't actually care about).

I am starting to think you just repeat random stuff you’ve read about people on the Left.

 

[tabzer]

Go back to my post where I listed 9 scientific facts and tell me which ones you agree/disagree with.

1. The vaccine is relatively safe.
   
   I don't know. The emergence of side effects exceeding their expectations throws this into question. Without knowing the long-term outcome, I don't think "safe" is fully substantiated--which is why "relatively" is the operating word.
   
   
2. The risks of long-term effects associated with the COVID-19 vaccines are highly unlikely?
   
   That's what the CDC claims, but we have not seen the long-term outcome.
   
   
3. The risks of long-term effects associated with COVID-19 are substantially higher than any long-term risks associated with the vaccines.
   
   The introduction of this point undermines the credibility of the previous point. (implementation of an adjustable goalpost)
   
   
4. The serious risks associated with COVID-19 vaccination are thousands to millions of times less likely, depending on your age, than the risks associated with not get vaccinated.
   
   We don't know all of the risks, but the validity of the statement is diminishing in trajectory. (Over-promise, under-deliver)
   
   
5. The vaccine is effective.
   
   It appears so, but also at the expense of unknowns. The over-promise, under-deliver marketing seems to be operating here, too. (Incoming "booster shots")
   
   
6. The vaccine is recommended by every reputable medical group.
   
   Citation needed. Bonus points if you could provide a citation for Japan.
   
   
7. Not getting vaccinated puts a person at a dramatically increased risk of COVID-19 infection and death vs. getting vaccinated.
   
   Citation needed. (I've already addressed the logical obfuscation in the "take the shot or you are killing people" false dilemma.)
   
   
8. Not getting vaccinated puts the people around you at a dramatically increased risk of COVID-19 infection and death vs. getting vaccinated.
   
   See previous point.
   
   
9. COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations are increasing dramatically in places with low vaccination rates.
   
   Citation needed. Seems to support the notion that correlation is evidence of causation.

 

[Lacius]

1. The vaccine is relatively safe.
   
   I don't know. The emergence of side effects exceeding their expectations throws this into question. Without knowing the long-term outcome, I don't think "safe" is fully substantiated--which is why "relatively" is the operating word.
   
   
2. The risks of long-term effects associated with the COVID-19 vaccines are highly unlikely?
   
   That's what the CDC claims, but we have not seen the long-term outcome.
   
   
3. The risks of long-term effects associated with COVID-19 are substantially higher than any long-term risks associated with the vaccines.
   
   The introduction of this point undermines the credibility of the previous point. (implementation of an adjustable goalpost)
   
   
4. The serious risks associated with COVID-19 vaccination are thousands to millions of times less likely, depending on your age, than the risks associated with not get vaccinated.
   
   We don't know all of the risks, but the validity of the statement is diminishing in trajectory. (Over-promise, under-deliver)
   
   
5. The vaccine is effective.
   
   It appears so, but also at the expense of unknowns. The over-promise, under-deliver marketing seems to be operating here, too. (Incoming "booster shots")
   
   
6. The vaccine is recommended by every reputable medical group.
   
   Citation needed. Bonus points if you could provide a citation for Japan.
   
   
7. Not getting vaccinated puts a person at a dramatically increased risk of COVID-19 infection and death vs. getting vaccinated.
   
   Citation needed. (I've already addressed the logical obfuscation in the "take the shot or you are killing people" false dilemma.)
   
   
8. Not getting vaccinated puts the people around you at a dramatically increased risk of COVID-19 infection and death vs. getting vaccinated.
   
   See previous point.
   
   
9. COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations are increasing dramatically in places with low vaccination rates.
   
   Citation needed. Seems to support the notion that correlation is evidence of causation.

Yikes. You're engaging in a lot of science denial, and I've provided sources for most of these things already. The only one I haven't cited is the fact that COVID-19 cases are rising in areas with low vaccination rates, but I can provide that now.

• https://news.yahoo.com/map-shows-almost-us-counties-120631278.html
• https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/07/09/almost-all-utah/
• https://www.kmbc.com/article/study-...put-the-entire-united-states-at-risk/36972277
• https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...entage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

The science is clear: The vaccines are safe, effective, and recommended. Your odds of serious ailments are significantly higher if you aren't vaccinated, and your odds of spreading the disease are significantly higher if you aren't vaccinated. If you are going to argue against any of these points, and want a substantive response from me in the future, you are going to need to provide evidence.

People have a moral imperative to get vaccinated if they can, and it's also in their own best interest to get vaccinated.

 

[stanna]

Hi, me the other half and 4 of are 6 kids have all got covid at the moment, let me tell you the kids have hardly known they have had it , snotty noses, high temps for a day, soar throats, still tear arsing around as usual, me and my missus have finished our quarantine more or less, we had same symptoms as the kids but it took a little longer to get over them, still feeling a bit tired.
We all usually get something very similar every year for at least the last 10 years, we also usually get the flu every year to and I can tell you coronavirus ain't a patch on the flu virus, non of us have been vaccinated for either and defo won't be doing in the future.
I think the media is terrifying everyone into getting this fake vaccine, they want it in you for some reason, time will tell why.

 

[tabzer]

Yikes. You're engaging in a lot of science denial

No I'm not.

I've provided sources for most of these things already.

You've factually misrepresented sources and made claims that don't exist for points 6,7. and 8--which I have called out.

For 9. Are you arguing correlation is evidence of causation? Also, is your intended audience only Americans?

There is no consensus in science. Science isn't a vote. But here are some facts relevent to your propaganda.

Facts;

1. Vaccines have been demonstrated to be unsafe: https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

2. The risks of long-term effects associated with the COVID-19 vaccines are unknown.

3. Unknown variables cannot be reliably compared/measured against each other.

4. Unknown variables cannot be reliably compared/measured against each other.

5. The vaccine's efficacy is estimated and being tried against in an on-going experiment.

6a. A forum of physicians does not represent the values of the planet.

6b. People taking a vaccine is not the same as recommending the vaccine.

7. Not getting vaccinated does not increase your risk.

8. Not getting vaccinated does not increase the risk of other people catching Covid-19.

9. Correlation does not prove causation.

 

[KingVamp]

In other news, a mrna flu vaccine is being worked on.

Hi, me the other half and 4 of are 6 kids have all got covid at the moment, let me tell you the kids have hardly known they have had it , snotty noses, high temps for a day, soar throats, still tear arsing around as usual, me and my missus have finished our quarantine more or less, we had same symptoms as the kids but it took a little longer to get over them, still feeling a bit tired.
We all usually get something very similar every year for at least the last 10 years, we also usually get the flu every year to and I can tell you coronavirus ain't a patch on the flu virus, non of us have been vaccinated for either and defo won't be doing in the future.
I think the media is terrifying everyone into getting this fake vaccine, they want it in you for some reason, time will tell why.

"I'm fine, so let's just ignore everyone else that had it worse or even died from it."

So, at what point do you think a vaccine is real? Do you take any medicine at all?

 

[Lacius]

No I'm not.



You've factually misrepresented sources and made claims that don't exist for points 6,7. and 8--which I have called out.

For 9. Are you arguing correlation is evidence of causation? Also, is your intended audience only Americans?

There is no consensus in science. Science isn't a vote. But here are some facts relevent to your propaganda.

Facts;

1. Vaccines have been demonstrated to be unsafe: https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

2. The risks of long-term effects associated with the COVID-19 vaccines are unknown.

3. Unknown variables cannot be reliably compared/measured against each other.

4. Unknown variables cannot be reliably compared/measured against each other.

5. The vaccine's efficacy is estimated and being tried against in an on-going experiment.

6a. A forum of physicians does not represent the values of the planet.

6b. People taking a vaccine is not the same as recommending the vaccine.

7. Not getting vaccinated does not increase your risk.

8. Not getting vaccinated does not increase the risk of other people catching Covid-19.

9. Correlation does not prove causation.

The vaccines have not been "demonstrated to be unsafe." You are hypocritically citing a website of alleged correlations that have not actually been corroborated. Oof. The website itself even states that it isn't meant to used in the way you're using it. "VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem, but is especially useful for detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine."
https://www.openvaers.com/f-a-q

The long-term effects of the vaccines are highly unlikely, given what we know about the vaccines and how they work, and this is according to medical groups and the CDC. The long-term and/or serious effects associated with contracting COVID-19 are far more likely and serious. To suggest there are serious and/or long-term effects of the vaccines is as much unsubstantiated as it is fear-mongering, and we have evidence to the contrary.

If you don't get vaccinated, your odds of contracting the virus, suffering serious effects, and spreading it to others are indeed significantly higher than if you do get vaccinated. Please don't peddle anti-scientific bullshit and call it factual.

Tabzer, no matter how you try to cut things, we are always going to be left with the vaccines being thousands to millions of times safer than COVID-19 itself, and we have more than enough evidence to back that up. You've been told by virtually every medical group and agency that the vaccines are safe, effective, and recommended, and you know that you are putting other people, in addition to yourself, at increased risk by not being vaccinated. I do not expect you to get vaccinated, and I truly hope you don't end up like one of the thousands of people in the USA who are being hospitalized with COVID-19 and express regret they didn't get vaccinated (or worse, die from the disease). I also hope that if/when you contract COVID-19 that you don't spread the disease to other people. You seem to be putting the people around you at increased risk, but morally speaking, that isn't something a person can reasonably do. If even one person gets vaccinated after reading our posts, I'd consider that an effective use of my time, but I think everything you and I have had to say has been said, and this conversation has gone on long enough.

Most of your arguments could probably be applied to seatbelts ("They could kill you instead of save you. There are unknowns you don't know about. They can cause harm despite the odds of me being in a crash being low since I'm a good driver"), seatbelts have also been demonstrated to be safe, effective, and recommended (or required) regardless, and your arguments aren't particularly compelling.