Hardware PSA: Gateway Is Making More Bricks

[Deleted-236924]

I agree, especially given they were the kings back in the DS days and did things that (mostly) no-one had really done before to make their flashcard the best flashcard.
(There was the iPlayer with on-board CPU for video decoding and it also had a GBA emulator, along with supporting all DS homebrew, but could not run retail games.)
iPlayer died down, then Supercard brought the DSTwo to the table and it immediately became the #1 DS flashcard to have.

Can't say the same about their GBA days, though. hehe.

 

[DayVeeBoi]

It's rather annoying they are doing this " Gateway piggy-back " thing to begin with. They need to just make up their own stuff.

This community is built on using software that other people developed without permission. What is it you think youre doing when youre playing a game you didnt buy?

What should happen is either Gateway should OpenSource or Supercard should put some effort and resources into reverse engineering an older launcher version and ten throw it up on github for us to have at it.

 

[Ruby Gloom]

This community is built on using software that other people developed without permission. What is it you think youre doing when youre playing a game you didnt buy?

Yeah, not at all the same considering these are two companies outside of this community. That's like saying you can play Xbox games on a Wii.

 

[DayVeeBoi]

For the time being, Supercard removed 1.04 from their website and put 1.03 back up, telling their users to use GW's 3.4.1 launcher instead.

They kind of had to. That doesnt mean that brick code caused these people console to break. The only way to know what broke the console is for these people who are claiming this to get on here and be specific about what they were doing when it happened so people can research it and try to replicate it. But the 2 people out of probably 50,000 or so DStwo+ cards that are out there have been very vague about it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Yeah, not at all the same considering these are two companies outside of this community. That's like saying you can play Xbox games on a Wii.

Huh? Xbox on a Wii? What are you even talking about?

 

[Ruby Gloom]

They kind of had to. That doesnt mean that brick code caused these people console to break. The only way to know what broke the console is for these people who are claiming this to get on here and be specific about what they were doing when it happened so people can research it and try to replicate it. But the 2 people out of probably 50,000 or so DStwo+ cards that are out there have been very vague about it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Huh? Xbox on a Wii? What are you even talking about?

Supercard is using Gateway's work without their permission and Gateway is only protecting their work.

 

[gamesquest1]

GW is forcing SuperCard to de-obfuscate and analyze GW's launcher code so they can make their own version available (brick code removed or simply changed to trigger if a genuine GW is detected). It's not impossible as people on GBATemp have done this before (although they were older launchers).

What GW *should* have done is simply to put in a banner and tell ppl to "buy the original" and a link to their reseller page, and perhaps give a $5 discount. What GW should NOT have done (and as far as we can tell, did not) is put in some background code that -when an Internet connection is available- "phones home" to GW with serial#, NNID, other personal info etc. What Gateway CERTAINLY NOT should have done is put in brick code that might accidentally trigger on actual GW users.

the thing is, end users who buy clones generally just want cheap cheap cheap, even if its $5 less they will consider it a "bargain" and hop on board the clone train, we seen the "disrupt clone users" strategy originally with code that simply causes the mSD not to be read, or randomly wipes all their saves, what did those effected by these anti-clone techniques do? make people run out and buy a gateway?....nope they just reported it to their clone team who after about 3 revisions finally figured out how to stop it, did that reduce the amount of people jumping on the clones?....nope it actually helped their image as "somewhat competent", they cant get it right straight away but eventually you will have all those GW features on your clone and still have your $5 sitting in your back pocket,

realistically clone buyers will virtually never go out and cough up even more for a genuine card unless their is something more scary than loosing that extra $5, that's where the brick code actually does serve a real threat to the end user, where the end user doesn't sit there thinking, "oh well the clones will get it right eventually and i brag about my $5 saving to everyone i can " and suddenly be thinking "shit what if they don't get it right and i loose my console, is the $5 really worth it? :S"

again not saying its right, but i can certainly see why gateway opt for the death strike and not the nancy pancy "please go buy a real gateway card"

but if anything the difference this time is that there is viable alternatives and gateway do risk turning people off their card all together and opt to go with CFW instead, back with the first brick wave it was incompetent clones, or gateway....now there is 2 viable alternatives in the form of SKY3DS and CFW

 

[DayVeeBoi]

Supercard is using Gateway's work without their permission and Gateway is only protecting their work.

the thing is, end users who buy clones generally just want cheap cheap cheap, even if its $5 less they will consider it a "bargain" and hop on board the clone train, we seen the "disrupt clone users" strategy originally with code that simply causes the mSD not to be read, or randomly wipes all their saves, what did those effected by these anti-clone techniques do? make people run out and buy a gateway?....nope they just reported it to their clone team who after about 3 revisions finally figured out how to stop it, did that reduce the amount of people jumping on the clones?....nope it actually helped their image as "somewhat competent", they cant get it right straight away but eventually you will have all those GW features on your clone and still have your $5 sitting in your back pocket,

realistically clone buyers will virtually never go out and cough up even more for a genuine card unless their is something more scary than loosing that extra $5, that's where the brick code actually does serve a real threat to the end user, where the end user doesn't sit there thinking, "oh well the clones will get it right eventually and i brag about my $5 saving to everyone i can " and suddenly be thinking "shit what if they don't get it right and i loose my console, is the $5 really worth it? :S"

agin not saying its right, but i can certainly see why gateway opt for the death strike and not the nancy pancy "please go buy a real gateway card"

What I dont understand if ithats how it went, if it was that easy for the clone makers to just change the software on their cards to beat whatever protection Gateway used to wipe their card, then why is it so hard for all these places to just negate whatever code is in the launcher that kills consoles? Especially theres people claiming they even know how it works. There one person on this thread aying that it was discovered a long time ago that it is a magic number-bit check type deal. Other ppl are claiming that its a random number generated thing. Why if the clone card makers could beat the wipe code after a few days or whatever and we know this much about the brick code and its been there since version 2.0b why cant Supercard do what the clone cards did before, and change their card?

 

[gamesquest1]

What I dont understand if ithats how it went, if it was that easy for the clone makers to just change the software on their cards to beat whatever protection Gateway used to wipe their card, then why is it so hard for all these places to just negate whatever code is in the launcher that kills consoles? Especially theres people claiming they even know how it works. There one person on this thread aying that it was discovered a long time ago that it is a magic number-bit check type deal. Other ppl are claiming that its a random number generated thing. Why if the clone card makers could beat the wipe code after a few days or whatever and we know this much about the brick code and its been there since version 2.0b why cant Supercard do what the clone cards did before, and change their card?

because over time gateway has basically intertwined mountains of obfuscation and lots of integrity checks and encryption, the truth is at this point it would probably be easier for clones to build their own FW from scratch than try untangle the complex plate of spaghetti that is the gateway launcher, the cfw's that exist today basically took the semi-deconstructed plate and rebuilt it without all the exra stuff, but afaik nobody every 100% mapped out any GW FW after 2.0b2 only the bits and pieces they needed to grab 7.x encryption keys and figure out emunand

 

[Wekker]

Well, like some people have said, Gateway put out a warning for Supercard and DSTWO+ owners to not use the plugin. The ones that have had their consoles bricked are mostly at fault considering they're the ones who decided to use the Gateway launcher with DSTWO+ and ignored the warnings.

Putting a brick code, instead of using a safer method, was a terrible decision on Gateway's part, but, again, it's Supercard and DSTWO+ owners that ignored the warning and just went along with it thinking that nothing would go wong.

Sure, people can complain that it's Gateway's fault all they want, but, really, it's still mostly the DSTWO+ owners that have decided to ignore the warning that Gateway put out and got their consoles bricked.

Basically, there's a sign that says "No loitering!", but you loiter around anyway ignoring the warning and you get in trouble for it. Sure, you can get away with it, but you will get caught if you keep on doing it.

Edit: Thanks for pointing out my mistakes, @Wekker . Now the post focuses more on Supercard on DSTWO+ owners.

Thank you for rewritting .
I am trying to made my point clear about that not every flashcart buyer knows what gatecrap write on their website or any website that has info about this. Also not every flashcart buyer knows that DSTwo+ will probably brick their console because the brickcode made by crapgate. In my point of view gatecrap is the guiltyparty in all situation unless the brick is unintended. I would only place guilty on SuperCard Team if they were contacted by gatecrap about the brick. Still in all situation the consumers shouldn't be the black sheep of this, yet gatecrap choose to do it, meanwhile the focus of who is guilty shifting from gatecrap to SuperCard Team.
The topic creator has said that there are 2 bricks has occured so far. Imagine those who use flashcart and also know websites like this one are far from the total flashcart users. How many poor lads has their console broken because they do not know about those situation like i have written so far?

I know few kids with flashcart, that is bought by friends of their families. They have no knownledge about how to setup those things and got their flashcart that is ready. They will probably brick their console if their cousin (someone who do not know about flashcart scene) from china (flashcart are very common there) gift they a DSTwo+.

 

[Armadillo]

Thank you for rewritting .
I am trying to made my point clear about that not every flashcart buyer knows what gatecrap write on their website or any website that has info about this. Also not every flashcart buyer knows that DSTwo+ will probably brick their console because the brickcode made by crapgate. In my point of view gatecrap is the guiltyparty in all situation unless the brick is unintended. I would only place guilty on SuperCard Team if they were contacted by gatecrap about the brick. Still in all situation the consumers shouldn't be the black sheep of this, yet gatecrap choose to do it, meanwhile the focus of who is guilty shifting from gatecrap to SuperCard Team.
The topic creator has said that there are 2 bricks has occured so far. Imagine those who use flashcart and also know websites like this one are far from the total flashcart users. How many poor lads has their console broken because they do not know about those situation like i have written so far?

I know few kids with flashcart, that is bought by friends of their families. They have no knownledge about how to setup those things and got their flashcart that is ready. They will probably brick their console if their cousin (someone who do not know about flashcart scene) from china (flashcart are very common there) gift they a DSTwo+.

Of course the blame is shifting to Supercard. Even if you buy without knowing, it's still supercard selling the faulty product. Supercard are the manafactuer of your product, they are responsible for making sure it's safe.

 

[CreAtor135]

Thank you for rewritting .
I am trying to made my point clear about that not every flashcart buyer knows what gatecrap write on their website or any website that has info about this. Also not every flashcart buyer knows that DSTwo+ will probably brick their console because the brickcode made by crapgate. In my point of view gatecrap is the guiltyparty in all situation unless the brick is unintended. I would only place guilty on SuperCard Team if they were contacted by gatecrap about the brick. Still in all situation the consumers shouldn't be the black sheep of this, yet gatecrap choose to do it, meanwhile the focus of who is guilty shifting from gatecrap to SuperCard Team.
The topic creator has said that there are 2 bricks has occured so far. Imagine those who use flashcart and also know websites like this one are far from the total flashcart users. How many poor lads has their console broken because they do not know about those situation like i have written so far?

I know few kids with flashcart, that is bought by friends of their families. They have no knownledge about how to setup those things and got their flashcart that is ready. They will probably brick their console if their cousin (someone who do not know about flashcart scene) from china (flashcart are very common there) gift they a DSTwo+.

But they should-- do you not understand that in order to even download the launcher.dat, you must visit Gateway's website? At this point if you didn't read the details of the update, you are 100% at fault if you suffer any unwanted consequences. I wish the third option in this poll would be "The user, for not heeding the warning of the people who explicitly stated to cease use" rather than its current CFW-elitism option.

 

[DayVeeBoi]

because over time gateway has basically intertwined mountains of obfuscation and lots of integrity checks and encryption, the truth is at this point it would probably be easier for clones to build their own FW from scratch than try untangle the complex plate of spaghetti that is the gateway launcher, the cfw's that exist today basically took the semi-deconstructed plate and rebuilt it without all the exra stuff, but afaik nobody every 100% mapped out any GW FW after 2.0b2 only the bits and pieces they needed to grab 7.x encryption keys and figure out emunand

All we need is 2.02b, whoever decompiled it needs to open source what they know. And if theyre not willing to do that, than supercard should put whatever resources they have into R.E.ing an older firmware, or at the very least just put everything that they know about it up on GitHub and the community will take care of it from there. I imagine that wont happen because anything they know that the community Devs dont would probably get absorbed into RxTools and we would be off to the races and fuck the flashcards lol. What I dont get, is why these people with RxTools and EmuNand are shitting on SuperCard about using Gateways software. Guess what, if it were up to Gateway apparently they would brick your consoles too, because you used the gateway launcher to backup your nand and build Emunand, and you arent buyiung their cards. That is unacceptable and I am not sure why people think that it is okay. Would all you Gateway people be okay with Nintendo Blitzing your consoles and rendering them a paperweight if they detect a gateway card in it? Would ya'll be saying thats legit?

 

[gamesquest1]

All we need is 2.02b, whoever decompiled it needs to open source what they know. And if theyre not willing to do that, than supercard should put whatever resources they have into R.E.ing an older firmware, or at the very least just put everything that they know about it up on GitHub and the community will take care of it from there. I imagine that wont happen because anything they know that the community Devs dont would probably get absorbed into RxTools and we would be off to the races and fuck the flashcards lol. What I dont get, is why these people with RxTools and EmuNand are shitting on SuperCard about using Gateways software. Guess what, if it were up to Gateway apparently they would brick your consoles too, because you used the gateway launcher to backup your nand and build Emunand, and you arent buyiung their cards. That is unacceptable and I am not sure why people think that it is okay. Would all you Gateway people be okay with Nintendo Blitzing your consoles and rendering them a paperweight if they detect a gateway card in it? Would ya'll be saying thats legit?

most of Rxtools was built from what people figured out from gateway in the first place, at this point nobody except a flashcard team would really benefit at all from a RE'd gateway 2.0b2 FW

and if nintendo was a shady company that operated outside the law, then yeah tbh i wouldn't be in the least surprised, upset sure, but i wouldn't start a "why you break my console for pirating that is not a nice thing to do you meanies" campaign

 

[DayVeeBoi]

All we need is 2.02b, whoever decompiled it needs to open source what they know. And if theyre not willing to do that, than supercard should put whatever resources they have into R.E.ing an older firmware, or at the very least just put everything that they know about it up on GitHub and the community will take care of it from there. I imagine that wont happen because anything they know that the community Devs dont would probably get absorbed into RxTools and we would be off to the races and fuck the flashcards lol. What I dont get, is why these people with RxTools and EmuNand are shitting on SuperCard about using Gateways software. Guess what, if it were up to Gateway apparently they would brick your consoles too, because you used the gateway launcher to backup your nand and build Emunand, and you arent buyiung their cards. That is unacceptable and I am not sure why people think that it is okay. Would all you Gateway people be okay with Nintendo Blitzing your consoles and rendering them a paperweight if they detect a gateway card in it? Would ya'll be saying thats legit?

Dont you guys understand that the only thing that Supercard is doiing wrong is Pirating Gateway software?

 

[gamesquest1]

no the thing is people are trying to apply big brand company logic to a team of underground hackers, they are hackers that sell flashcards for questionable purposes, not mother Theresa giving out free food to the poor, they want the money, they don't want other people making money off their work and they will go to extreme measures to do that, once you step on the dark side your on the dark side, don't expect nancy pacy cease and desist requests with a three strikes and your out policy that normal companies have to adhere to by law

 

[DayVeeBoi]

most of Rxtools was built from what people figured out from gateway in the first place, at this point nobody except a flashcard team would really benefit at all from a RE'd gateway 2.0b2 FW

and if nintendo was a shady company that operated outside the law, then yeah tbh i wouldn't be in the least surprised, upset sure, but i wouldn't start a "why you break my console for pirating that is not a nice thing to do you meanies" campaign

Me either, and thats not my point. My issue is that theres not really any evidence of it actually being a fact that Supercard bricks consoles. Its not even close to a fact yet. In fact theres not even anyone on the thread saying what happened. My issue is mainly is that this is just "C'mon internet, grab your PitchForks and Torches" when the only claim in this whole thread is that the Gateway card in his console when it died. Thats my real issue. I have no stake in this, other than finding truth. I couldnt care less, I dont own Gateway or Supercard, but i cant say the same for the people who are claiming that they got a bricked console because of Supercard. Where are these people? Why is there only 2? Why dont we start an informal poll of who all is using gateway and who all is using Supercard and count how many consoles have bricked in those peoples possesion? Thats way more logical way to spend our energy than what is going on here.

 

[gamesquest1]

Me either, and thats not my point. My issue is that theres not really any evidence of it actually being a fact that Supercard bricks consoles. Its not even close to a fact yet. In fact theres not even anyone on the thread saying what happened. My issue is mainly is that this is just "C'mon internet, grab your PitchForks and Torches" when the only claim in this whole thread is that the Gateway card in his console when it died. Thats my real issue. I have no stake in this, other than finding truth. I couldnt care less, I dont own Gateway or Supercard, but i cant say the same for the people who are claiming that they got a bricked console because of Supercard. Where are these people? Why is there only 2? Why dont we start an informal poll of who all is using gateway and who all is using Supercard and count how many consoles have bricked in those peoples possesion? Thats way more logical way to spend our energy than what is going on here.

well one of those people are looking for someone to unbrick their console, i have messaged them and if/when i receive their console i have asked if they send their DSTWO+ with it so i can have a good test myself and see if i can replicate the brick occurrence, as i said earlier unless someone is actively trying to trigger the brick code, or RE'ing the launcher most users probably wouldnt really be able to help much as they only brick the once which at best gives us spotty opinions on what people think caused it

 

[DayVeeBoi]

most of Rxtools was built from what people figured out from gateway in the first place, at this point nobody except a flashcard team would really benefit at all from a RE'd gateway 2.0b2 FW

and if nintendo was a shady company that operated outside the law, then yeah tbh i wouldn't be in the least surprised, upset sure, but i wouldn't start a "why you break my console for pirating that is not a nice thing to do you meanies" campaign

If this is directed towards me, I am not invoking Nintendo as a company to argue whether or not the bricks are even real, I am just using it as a simile to clarify it from a morale position in language that pirates will understand.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

well one of those people are looking for someone to unbrick their console, i have messaged them and if/when i receive their console i have asked if they send their DSTWO+ with it so i can have a good test myself and see if i can replicate the brick occurrence, as i said earlier unless someone is actively trying to trigger the brick code, or RE'ing the launcher most users probably wouldnt really be able to help much as they only brick the once which at best gives us spotty opinions on what people think caused it

Right but at least you will have a starting position, like what are you saying that its unprovable? So if you replicate whatever the person said they were doing a few hundred times and no brick happens, that doesnt necessarily mean that theres no brick code? I dont understand.

 

[gamesquest1]

If this is directed towards me, I am not invoking Nintendo as a company to argue whether or not the bricks are even real, I am just using it as a simile to clarify it from a morale position in language that pirates will understand.

no im talking about the people saying "how could gateway do this this is very "naughty""....they are a "naughty" company what do people really expect

Right but at least you will have a starting position, like what are you saying that its unprovable? So if you replicate whatever the person said they were doing a few hundred times and no brick happens, that doesnt necessarily mean that theres no brick code? I dont understand.

yes i cannot 100% disprove it, but there is a chance i could prove it, as i did with the official GW bricks, sure its nice to have a starting point, but no harm in trying if nobody else is willing to try rather than sit there saying "show me the proof" and nobody actually trying to prove it

 

[Xenon Hacks]

I really don't like this guy he turned the thread into a shit show.