India to help Greece and fellow 'victims of colonial appropriation' to push UK to give back Elgin Marbles

[Flame]

I like to think I'm a very forward-looking person on matters concerning the future. But this matter of history is very odd to me. An Indian leader who doesn't help the minorities in its own nation. Has no problem helping Russia in a war of aggression. Trying to divide the west. He shouldn't try to make UK sell stuff which it kept it safe during a period of time, which would have got it destroyed back to the Turks. Who the Brits brought it from.

What's your take on this?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/india-elgin-marbles-greece-colonial-appropriation/

 

[Veho]

My take is that the British empire robbed and enslaved half the world during its naval supremacy days and now holds the world's largest stockpile of other peoples' and coutries' treasures of immense cultural and historical value, with zero justification other than "posession is nine tenths of the law", and "might makes right".


"The 'Elgin Marbles' were taken from the Parthenon by the British Lord Elgin in the nineteenth century and are now kept in the British Museum."

Yeah, I'm sure he did it to "keep them safe during a period of time" and didn't just outright steal them (sarcasm, BTW) but in any case I dare say Greece is a bit safer now than under Ottoman occupation and some of the intervening events and it's high time they were returned?

 

[Flame]

My take is that the British empire robbed and enslaved half the world during its naval supremacy days and now holds the world's largest stockpile of other peoples' and coutries' treasures of immense cultural and historical value, with zero justification other than "posession is nine tenths of the law", and "might makes right".


"The 'Elgin Marbles' were taken from the Parthenon by the British Lord Elgin in the nineteenth century and are now kept in the British Museum."

Yeah, I'm sure he did it to "keep them safe during a period of time" and didn't just outright steal them (sarcasm, BTW) but in any case I dare say Greece is a bit safer now than under Ottoman occupation and some of the intervening events and it's high time they were returned?

Well, at what point do we stop in time and subject? Should modern Americans give back the lands to the Native Americans and all leave? Should Taiwan be part of China again? Land is possession, right?

I mean, without the Turks (Ottoman Empire) loads of countries wouldn't have Islam? Should we take Islam away from say the Saudis? Maybe the Greeks would want Constantinople back after Brits handed over the 'Elgin Marbles'.

Maybe Croatia should fall under the influence of Russia again? Like the good old days? I'm sure that make Putin happy. (sarcasm, BTW)

 

[Veho]

Well, at what point do we stop in time and subject? Should modern Americans give back the lands to the Native Americans and all leave? Should Taiwan be part of China again? Land is possession, right?

We stop at a point where you don't have to displace or evict or otherwise harm a whole bunch of ordinary people who are not involved in the issue, who moved in hundreds of years after the fact.

But the Elgin Marbles aren't some poor grandma's ancestral home, they are a bunch of exhibits in a museum in the government's possession, and nobody would lose out if they are returned.

England returned the Benin Bronzes recently, and I don't think any citizen was greatly inconvenienced by that (except maybe the museum curator who may have had to rearrange the exhibit, the poor thing).

Maybe Croatia should fall under the influence of Russia again? Like the good old days? I'm sure that make Putin happy. (sarcasm, BTW)

Read up on your history please.

Croatia, then a part of Yugoslavia, was never under the "influence" of Russia. Yugoslavia refused to enter the USSR or to side with the Eastern bloc, and in fact was the founder of the non-aligned movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito–Stalin_split
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

Stalin famously tried to assassinate Tito on several occasions in the hope his successor would align with Russia. Tito famously told Stalin to fuck off.

 

[Flame]

We stop at a point where you don't have to displace or evict or otherwise harm a whole bunch of ordinary people who are not involved in the issue, who moved in hundreds of years after the fact.

But the Elgin Marbles aren't some poor grandma's ancestral home, they are a bunch of exhibits in a museum in the government's possession, and nobody would lose out if they are returned.

England returned the Benin Bronzes recently, and I don't think any citizen was greatly inconvenienced by that (except maybe the museum curator who may have had to rearrange the exhibit, the poor thing).





Read up on your history please.

Croatia, then a part of Yugoslavia, was never under the "influence" of Russia. Yugoslavia refused to enter the USSR or to side with the Eastern bloc, and in fact was the founder of the non-aligned movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito–Stalin_split
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

Stalin famously tried to assassinate Tito on several occasions in the hope his successor would align with Russia. Tito famously told Stalin to fuck off.

I know about Yugoslavia and history pretty well. I'm sorry @Veho the Politics virus bug just got hold of me. I went low, acted like just an average member of politics section. forgive me.

 

[EmanueleBGN]

LOL

 

[Vetusomaru]

I like to think I'm a very forward-looking person on matters concerning the future. But this matter of history is very odd to me. An Indian leader who doesn't help the minorities in its own nation. Has no problem helping Russia in a war of aggression. Trying to divide the west. He shouldn't try to make UK sell stuff which it kept it safe during a period of time, which would have got it destroyed back to the Turks. Who the Brits brought it from.

What's your take on this?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/india-elgin-marbles-greece-colonial-appropriation/

Imagine defending Brits for stealing other countries' monuments

 

[mrdude]

Imagine defending Brits for stealing other countries' monuments

You should read some history and view some world maps from the last 3000 years or so, countries have been doing this since time began. Let's face it, when a small island nation the size of Britian can form a large empire that spanned around a third of the world - obviously the people that were colonised were going to be colonised at some point by someone else, such as the Spanish, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Germans or some other empire. There's been at least 70 empires, maybe more in pre-history, this is just life. The spoils of war go to the victors and the stongest survive while the weak get ruled over or killed. There has NEVER been any point in world history where peace has existed, and there never will be. Humans are just animals and all animals behave in the same way - there are preditors and prey, if you're the apex preditor you don't have much to worry about - but show any sign of weakness and it's goodnight forever.

These monumnets weren't stolen, some were bought some were traded, and some were appropriated by a stonger force that conquered a weaker force, this is what all empires have done and what all will continue to do.

Democracy is an Illusion, and if you think USA or anyone else is any better, you are lying to yourself, even today other countries resources are being plundered mostly by the West, African Dictators and by wealthy countries like China that prey on poorer countries with the promise of advancement. This is just the way the world works, it might be unfair but there will always be those that take from the weaker.

 

[Jokey_Carrot]

i think it's kind of a dick move tbh just give them the gay ass jewels back its not that deep

 

[Vetusomaru]

You should read some history

Speak for yourself, British imperialism apologist. You sound exactly like people in Democratic countries that lecture migrants from communist dictatorship countries about how great communism is.

 

[mrdude]

Speak for yourself, British imperialism apologist. You sound exactly like people in Democratic countries that lecture migrants from communist dictatorship countries about how great communism is.

I despise commies. Also look at the great things that empires have brought the world - like them or loathe then,if it wasn't for the many empires throughout history our knowledge and skills wouldn't have advanced as much as they have. You might not like this, but you can't change history and every single country in the world only became a country because someone stronger stole land from someone weaker.

 

[Xzi]

This is just the way the world works, it might be unfair but there will always be those that take from the weaker.

If might truly made right, we'd be the planet of the apes by now. Civilization has advanced on brainpower alone for the last several hundred years, but if conservatives want to shun society and perpetually act like chimpanzees I'm sure we can find them an uninhabited island somewhere it won't bother anyone else.

 

[FAST6191]

Short version. Much like China spends its days insulting people as it plays well to the internal people that are not just trying to survive then as Indian youth seems to have shifted focus to America as the land of good stuff (prior to that there was still some if not fondness then reverence for the UK -- it was UK prestige companies that died from stupidity during the 70s and 80s and 90s which Indians that made money used to buy up as a vanity project) then some in the Indian elite bang on the oh no UK bad drum to distract from lack of food, running water, dubious education/population literacy, rampant corruption and all the rest. Depending upon the politicians in power in the UK that like to spend their time self flagellating for the imagined sins of their ancestors you can even get some appeasements (don't know if during the kung flu jab roll out they sent some India's way as apparently despite having world leading pharma they could not get it together), others* are all "you say we colonised you, yeah you are welcome for that one, good times, shame you ruined it afterwards" and the insults are water off a duck's back (not like they are not going to trade with them, tourism is not troubled, nobody in the UK cares either or are the self flagellate types so get a buzz from being reminded how bad they are courtesy of ancestral sins).
The Elgin stuff is a contentious one. Most of it is more that Greece at the time was a subject of Turkey/Ottomans, who were all *checks* yeah no Muslim of note ever so much as farted nearby so yeah you can have those dusty old rocks. To that end it is considered a legitimate trade, Greece then became independent and decided to go on a history is good stuff effort (and to be fair there is not much else going for it -- Greece, much like Italy, has a great hand for the early game of civilisation but less of one for the modern) and whined about it ever since/used it as a diplomatic ploy much like Americans tend to throw out the outlandish stuff and then remove it as time goes on as a means of negotiation (see also Americans buying the holy NHS during last round of trade negotiations).

*there are even those in India all "can we get the British back", not realising that anything resembling a competent politician, much less a movement thereof, in the UK died in the 1960s at the very latest.

Videos
Wackadoodle maths is used to generate some interesting numbers as pertains to reparations

Some history for the curious