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What do you expect out of homebrew here?
It has been widely noted that with the rise of android and ios that homebrew scenes declined, or if you prefer see the end of the DS and PSP and the general non event that was the 3ds when it got hacked in the end. Like the GBA and DS represented portable devices about as good as they got at the time, and now we all have TVs with HDMI and laptops/computers/android tablets/raspberry pis that output to it and take any number of inputs (of which the switch lacks many general purpose options and has nothing terribly interesting of its own to bring to the party) which means another xbox or wii is unlikely. There are still plenty of people making cool stuff because they can, but it ain't mainly happening on consoles (handheld or otherwise) any more.
Even without that and taking the homebrew=emulation approach (a poor one but a popular one) I doubt we will break too far out of the "16 bit and older emulation works great, PS1 era and beyond is more tricky or at very best plugin hell" rut that things have been in since... almost since it became vaguely viable to emulate such things. Like I saw people float a PS2 emulator which is insane from where I sit. Theoretically I guess the power is there (for now*) for something but why anybody would put the effort in, and it would be a lot of effort above and beyond more baseline emulator coding, when there are easier options to go in for.
*like the 3ds they have started with a somewhat higher end android type hardware and are now getting outclassed. That does not stop you running things but if a dev has a choice of pressing compile and having it work vs having to loving hand craft things to get it working acceptably you know which choice gets picked the most.
If someone can keep a reasonably well working and current version of android (not impossible) I might change my tune. However that would be android and not the Switch that promotes that one.
Assuming all that is not a problem.
What are the chances of Nintendo having yet another swiss cheese approach to security? They appear to have made some effort and now have the sort of security we saw in about 2005, however what has been seen of the screw ups thus far does not inspire confidence in their security. To that end is buying one to sit on going to be a wasted effort?
Also where do you sit on hardware mods? I don't mind soldering for a couple of hours and doing fun things here, some however are "braindead easy to install custom firmware which does it all including basically no risk of bans online or don't bother even speaking to me". Hardware has not really been done much in a while and no company really seems to defend that well against it, I doubt Nintendo has either. Equally if you care more for copied games/backups/piracy of the current stuff might there be an option for that akin the sky3ds on the 3ds where copied games were all it did but that is also some want?
Looking at previous hacks then there are always people looking to offload hacked consoles (no games, no money, better offerings, because they have a line on hackable consoles...). The premiums they charge for hacked devices vary but the trend is almost invariably towards "it's just a second hand console, price accordingly". I doubt you will be paying much above the price of one here.
Waiting then might see a price drop happen.
Game wise we are already seeing the start of no games/Nintendo life support like we saw for everything from the N64 on up and to some extent the 3ds too (I don't care for most Nintendo games and the GBA and DS were and are great, 3ds considerably less so and most of what it could do I could get elsewhere where they owned the markets in the GBA era and the PSP had some stuff but not necessarily the same stuff as the DS). Ubisoft have sort of checked out already, EA are using Fifa as a metric for how much they go in for it during the future, most of the big Japanese devs are content to continue to service the PS4 and phones, nobody is sitting there claiming the switch to be a lead platform, I don't like exclusives as a concept but they count in this, plenty of PS4/xbone titles that could be there are not being there and release schedules are pretty sparse.
I don't know when we are going to start seeing the first heat deaths of Switches but I am not expecting a terribly long wait (lead free solder + small package + cut price build quality/quality control + actually having active cooling says much), and there is also the equivalent of cracked hinges to consider. Going with that when are we expecting the Switch equivalent of the GBA SP, AGS 101 SP models, DS lite, 3ds XL/n3ds, GBP/GBC or similar? Personally I was content enough with my original DS but I can see why people opt for the lite, and prior to this screen replacement and backlight lark I can see why nobody wanted an original GBA. At the same time many of those revisions could actually come with far improved security.
The final thing for me to consider would be ROM hacking. This varies dramatically upon how you view it -- pokemon, mario kart, mario platform, smash brothers and to a lesser extent fire emblem, golden sun and sonic (final fantasy, zelda, some castlevania and chrono trigger are on this list if you go looking at the 16 bit and older titles) are different worlds compared to what I think of when I think ROM hacking (which is basically all the other games and high end techniques vs tools to do it for you for the previous list) and some people are happy enough with basic cheats. For me on many systems it genuinely gives me new games to play, fixes truly broken games and hones already good ones. Looking at the 3ds there was not the same drive as there was during the GBA and DS eras really, never mind what goes on for older consoles still, and I doubt it is going to come back for the Switch.
Despite all this I could still see someone buying a switch, just don't expect world leading magnificence in hacking, homebrew, emulation, games or ROM hacking like we saw in previous times.
It has been widely noted that with the rise of android and ios that homebrew scenes declined, or if you prefer see the end of the DS and PSP and the general non event that was the 3ds when it got hacked in the end. Like the GBA and DS represented portable devices about as good as they got at the time, and now we all have TVs with HDMI and laptops/computers/android tablets/raspberry pis that output to it and take any number of inputs (of which the switch lacks many general purpose options and has nothing terribly interesting of its own to bring to the party) which means another xbox or wii is unlikely. There are still plenty of people making cool stuff because they can, but it ain't mainly happening on consoles (handheld or otherwise) any more.
Even without that and taking the homebrew=emulation approach (a poor one but a popular one) I doubt we will break too far out of the "16 bit and older emulation works great, PS1 era and beyond is more tricky or at very best plugin hell" rut that things have been in since... almost since it became vaguely viable to emulate such things. Like I saw people float a PS2 emulator which is insane from where I sit. Theoretically I guess the power is there (for now*) for something but why anybody would put the effort in, and it would be a lot of effort above and beyond more baseline emulator coding, when there are easier options to go in for.
*like the 3ds they have started with a somewhat higher end android type hardware and are now getting outclassed. That does not stop you running things but if a dev has a choice of pressing compile and having it work vs having to loving hand craft things to get it working acceptably you know which choice gets picked the most.
If someone can keep a reasonably well working and current version of android (not impossible) I might change my tune. However that would be android and not the Switch that promotes that one.
Assuming all that is not a problem.
What are the chances of Nintendo having yet another swiss cheese approach to security? They appear to have made some effort and now have the sort of security we saw in about 2005, however what has been seen of the screw ups thus far does not inspire confidence in their security. To that end is buying one to sit on going to be a wasted effort?
Also where do you sit on hardware mods? I don't mind soldering for a couple of hours and doing fun things here, some however are "braindead easy to install custom firmware which does it all including basically no risk of bans online or don't bother even speaking to me". Hardware has not really been done much in a while and no company really seems to defend that well against it, I doubt Nintendo has either. Equally if you care more for copied games/backups/piracy of the current stuff might there be an option for that akin the sky3ds on the 3ds where copied games were all it did but that is also some want?
Looking at previous hacks then there are always people looking to offload hacked consoles (no games, no money, better offerings, because they have a line on hackable consoles...). The premiums they charge for hacked devices vary but the trend is almost invariably towards "it's just a second hand console, price accordingly". I doubt you will be paying much above the price of one here.
Waiting then might see a price drop happen.
Game wise we are already seeing the start of no games/Nintendo life support like we saw for everything from the N64 on up and to some extent the 3ds too (I don't care for most Nintendo games and the GBA and DS were and are great, 3ds considerably less so and most of what it could do I could get elsewhere where they owned the markets in the GBA era and the PSP had some stuff but not necessarily the same stuff as the DS). Ubisoft have sort of checked out already, EA are using Fifa as a metric for how much they go in for it during the future, most of the big Japanese devs are content to continue to service the PS4 and phones, nobody is sitting there claiming the switch to be a lead platform, I don't like exclusives as a concept but they count in this, plenty of PS4/xbone titles that could be there are not being there and release schedules are pretty sparse.
I don't know when we are going to start seeing the first heat deaths of Switches but I am not expecting a terribly long wait (lead free solder + small package + cut price build quality/quality control + actually having active cooling says much), and there is also the equivalent of cracked hinges to consider. Going with that when are we expecting the Switch equivalent of the GBA SP, AGS 101 SP models, DS lite, 3ds XL/n3ds, GBP/GBC or similar? Personally I was content enough with my original DS but I can see why people opt for the lite, and prior to this screen replacement and backlight lark I can see why nobody wanted an original GBA. At the same time many of those revisions could actually come with far improved security.
The final thing for me to consider would be ROM hacking. This varies dramatically upon how you view it -- pokemon, mario kart, mario platform, smash brothers and to a lesser extent fire emblem, golden sun and sonic (final fantasy, zelda, some castlevania and chrono trigger are on this list if you go looking at the 16 bit and older titles) are different worlds compared to what I think of when I think ROM hacking (which is basically all the other games and high end techniques vs tools to do it for you for the previous list) and some people are happy enough with basic cheats. For me on many systems it genuinely gives me new games to play, fixes truly broken games and hones already good ones. Looking at the 3ds there was not the same drive as there was during the GBA and DS eras really, never mind what goes on for older consoles still, and I doubt it is going to come back for the Switch.
Despite all this I could still see someone buying a switch, just don't expect world leading magnificence in hacking, homebrew, emulation, games or ROM hacking like we saw in previous times.
Many thanks for the response and a very detailed interesting read.
My purpose is for backup games and also the possibility to emulate other games from older systems.
With what you stated meaning chances of getting a true homebrew like on the wii not looking likely then this is a decision maker.
My purpose is for backup games and also the possibility to emulate other games from older systems.
With what you stated meaning chances of getting a true homebrew like on the wii not looking likely then this is a decision maker.
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If the Switch currently has enough games to make your purchase worthwhile then buy it. If not wait as Nintendo will release a better Switch model sooner or later and by that time their will be more games you want to play on it.
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Rocket League is the only third-party game anyone really needs, but obviously it's not the only one Switch is getting. More than that though, you claim that the 3DS and Gamecube had game libraries "on life support," which is obviously talking out your ass. People constantly request GCN remakes for the new gen, it was a huge cult smash, especially among Smash players. The 3DS library is far larger than the PS4 library. Guess Sony is on life support. /s
Last edited by Xzi,
if u wanna play current switch titles, buy it. otherwise wait.
if i didn't have cold steel 2 and the new fire emblem game to play on the go, i would have bought a switch for now as I have plenty of time from a portable perspective to hammer it.
if i didn't have cold steel 2 and the new fire emblem game to play on the go, i would have bought a switch for now as I have plenty of time from a portable perspective to hammer it.
3DS was not life support, but it was not them at their finest. I have said before in similar discussions how when I was doing a retrospective series involving a lot of DS games (them tending to be ones I really liked playing or at least having something interesting to showcase) I would do a "where are they now?" bit. So many of them had vanished for the 3ds and were doing android and IOS stuff, and anything they did do for the 3ds was mirrored and probably better on other platforms. Maybe it was enough for some people (by and large I don't really care for most Nintendo properties which could make me something of an outlier) but it did not have what made the GBA and DS great, and sees me play them to this day.
People constantly request remakes of everything, I tend not to pay them much attention, especially smash players given the farce that whole scene became (competitive smash is so shockingly poorly implemented I tend to use it as a case study of how not to, though I suppose I can say compared to other versions the GC version was probably the most coherent).
If you reckon the GC library was good enough then congrats on having lower standards than me I guess, much like not being one able to drink 20 pints and still be able to walk home makes for cheap night out it is not an unenviable position but I have been spoiled (at the time by the PS2 and later on the xbox for certain things). That probably handles rocket league as well -- as a competitive game it is not without merit but there is way more to games than that for me. I liked my GCs, had a great time with several games even (then and to this day) and it was not as embarrassing for Nintendo as the N64 or Wii U (we will leave the Wii for now but suffice it to say I don't look favourably upon its library either, and if you want to talk release droughts then settle down as we are in for a long one, or perhaps not as a drought is an absence of things). Had I wanted to experience a good slice of games and gameplay styles (though we might have to break it down between PC and consoles as they were still doing different things at the time) at the time though I would have been out of luck. Going further I would have to ponder whether the requests for remakes might be because nobody had one at the time and a remake represents a better chance to play one (to say nothing of hopefully benefiting from the refinement the last 10-15 years of game design have brought) -- something like eternal darkness (reviewed well at the time, sold enough that it can hardly be said to have been missed at the time...) would set you back a reasonable chunk of change going by Amazon prices right now.
If you reckon the PS4 and 3ds are valid things to compare then so be it. Had a look on the numbers vs the DS if that matters? The ps4bone is at risk of seriously underwhelming me though, actually in a similar way that the 3ds did coming off the GBA and DS. I don't think I am getting old and if I am it is playing out vastly differently to how I see the same where people are stuck liking the music from when they were 19.
It is more that when I look at the NES, SNES, GB-GBA and DS that a majority of the awesome games for them, be them my picks or those in every top ?? list I have ever read, feature third party games everywhere*. When people then turn around and say Nintendo only needs Nintendo (and its stable) that I have to question what they are smoking. The various presentations were a bit better than I expected but not close to the levels I needed to start feeling any enthusiasm. The responses to it seemed a bit uneasy and then in what almost seemed like tones used by religious apologetics we got "but now it is portable" (as much as the switch can be considered as such).
*I recall a thread around here once that asked about the state of cartoon network and how it was better "back in the day". I then had to question when the day was for looking at ages such a thing would have been when I thought they had lost it. It is not then impossible that someone grew up thinking the N64 and GC were Nintendo doing some kind of well.
Going further I have previously stated I hate the console model and want everybody to go the DVD route where I can buy one of a thousand different models with varying specs but, give or take the horrors of region locking, they all work with my DVD I got from the shop though. Were I someone else I might say I hope Nintendo prove me wrong but I do actually hope Nintendo get driven into the ground, they get no amiibo sustenance type bubble and they reinvent themselves as a third party company.
Here is my 2 cents on the matter, when and if the emulation scene takes off on the switch it will be some time from now, but having a wii u pocket size will be great...Also Mario Odyssey is right around the corner, and the scarcity of consoles will only get worse leading into the holidays... At 36 yrs old i find waiting for hacks to come a waste of time, when theirs good games coming and decent ones now!!! Like someone said earlier if the games available now interest you and you have the cash go get one...
I'm not sure about Android but iOS scene is dead. No one is jailbreaking because it screws your phone up badly, and there's no point. No users means no devs. Even the creator of Cydia discourages it now.
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Fair enough. The language you use here is a lot more neutral and I appreciate that. The other claim that we used to hear all the time was, "PC gaming is dying." Well it's more alive than ever now, and Nintendo is sitting on a massive surplus of cash. I'd say they're both doing fine.
If you want to play the current games lineup for the Switch, then buy it now. Otherwise, hold off until more games come out. There's no point in buying a console if you won't play it or at least the games do not interest you.
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