GBAtemp Debate Club: Presidential Candidates

Who do you think are the the top 5 Presidential hopefuls?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • Jim Webb

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Martin O'Malley

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Ben Carson

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • Carly Fiorina

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Marco Rubio

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Jeb Bush

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Ted Cruz

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • John Kasich

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Bobby Jindal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chris Christie

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • (Other not listed)

    Votes: 5 17.2%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
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FAST6191

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By forcing Church officials to contradict their beliefs and wed homosexual couples, incestual couples, polygamous couples, etc.

Making factually incorrect claims doesn't hurt your position?

And yet slavery is still practiced today in many African/Arab/Asian countries.

He has owned hundreds of companies, out of those, 4 times he has utilized the laws of bankruptcy to gain an advantage. If you think that's "unfair" or "cheating", blame the government for putting those laws in place.

In the scenario I spoke of they would not be forced to contradict any beliefs they want to cook up. They would however not be able to perform legally binding marriages if they could not fall into line with the state's (as in state at large, not individual state in the union) policy on the matter. I understand various churches pull double duty as polling stations at various points in time -- if they are not willing to let inspectors in then they can not perform that task, no real difference here and there is nothing stopping them from holding a mock poll either.

It is not ideal but you appeared to attempt to conflate alternative but well accepted forms of sexuality with those that are not and indeed are widely illegal in most what might be dubbed progressive countries/places in the world. That is not an especially good place to start.

and where those countries are seen condoning slavery they tend to be penalised, I am not sure where this is going though.

Only 4 times, though to be fair I have met hundreds of people and only killed about 3. I do find it somewhat amusing that you would bring a letter of the law argument where before you are attempting to use higher morality at other points. Considered a career as a lawyer?
 

RevPokemon

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One, there is no discussion about forcing churches to marriage homosexuals, polygamists, etc. There has been repeated discussions about commercial enterprises (or charitable ones) which have tried to use religion as a basis to deny people service. To them I say the obvious, "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is God's". This holds true for marriage licenses (as they are State issued), paying taxes (again, the face of "Caesar" (aka Washington, et al) is on them), etc.

Two, slavery can't logically be legal because it inherently says the absurd. One can enter into slavery because to be a slave of another is to forfeit all rights, privileges, etc and hence no bargain can be reached that cannot be usurped by the new owner of the one. Meanwhile, slavery under prison terms are (at least) hypothetically limited in duration and are a form of restitution for a crime against society/people. Of course it ends up not being done correctly because of ridiculous prison terms and ridiculous wages (that are applied to restitution). In the end, prison ends up behaving like indentured servitude where the corruption of it turns it into a system that desires recidivism to continue the enslavement.



Funny but you don't accept the opposite when it comes to taxes which are the laws and have as much legitimacy as bankruptcy. Both are inherently forced violations of implied or explicit contracts--in fact bankruptcy is worse precisely because it's explicit. Having said that, bankruptcy is preferable to debtors prisons or as above other corrupt systems to enslave people for life.
Beat me to it.

This 100%

Also @Haloman800 using conservative sources means they want you to think that the persecution is happening, it makes faux news money
 

Haloman800

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In the scenario I spoke of they would not be forced to contradict any beliefs they want to cook up. They would however not be able to perform legally binding marriages
I've stated repeatedly that the government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage, as it is a religious institution which was first recorded over 6,000 years ago in the Torah.
It is not ideal but you appeared to attempt to conflate alternative but well accepted forms of sexuality with those that are not and indeed are widely illegal in most what might be dubbed progressive countries/places in the world. That is not an especially good place to start.
You absolutely cannot support "consenting adults" (homosexuals) yet be opposed to "consenting adults" (siblings, polygamy) without being a hypocrite.
and where those countries are seen condoning slavery they tend to be penalised, I am not sure where this is going though.
Nope, no one seems to care, even less are doing anything about it. Probably because the ones practicing it aren't white.
Only 4 times, though to be fair I have met hundreds of people and only killed about 3
1. Bankruptcy isn't immoral 2. If you are opposed to it, blame the government, who created the laws, not Trump, who's only utilizing them.
 

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I've stated repeatedly that the government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage, as it is a religious institution which was first recorded over 6,000 years ago in the Torah.

You absolutely cannot support "consenting adults" (homosexuals) yet be opposed to "consenting adults" (siblings, polygamy) without being a hypocrite.

Nope, no one seems to care, even less are doing anything about it. Probably because the ones practicing it aren't white.

1. Bankruptcy isn't immoral 2. If you are opposed to it, blame the government, who created the laws, not Trump, who's only utilizing them.
1. Bankruptcy can me immoral if it is done for evil reasons. 2. You can blame both since they both are bad
 

Haloman800

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I would be appalled to hear that a church was forced to marry a homosexual couple. You're absolutely right. That would go against our constitution.
I don't think the government allowing gays to marry infringes on people's religious freedom's though. I mean, you can say that official government marriages are bad and wrong, and I can't say that you're wrong.
Great, then you would also support the consistent application of separation of Church & state.

I just hope you realize that if you lose marriage licensees you also lose joint tax filing, equal share of responsibility's for a child's guardians, easy transfer of wealth if someone dies without a will, etc. So if you really think that we need to replace all that stuff with laws that don't rely on tracking marriages, fine. Otherwise, we need marriage licenses. And if we have marriage licenses then they can't be linked to religious beliefs (separation of church and state) and so we have to let any two adults who want one get one.
This is an argument from pragmatism, which is akin to saying "Well, picking cotton will be much more difficult without slaves!", I don't care, slavery is immoral, and needs to be abolished. Government hijacking marriage and forcing individuals to go against their moral and religious beliefs is immoral, and needs to be abolished.
Okay to be fair there is one exception to this, and that's incest. But the government has a genuine interest in not letting family members marry and have kids, and that's screwed up genetics.
Non-related couples can have kids with screwed up genetics, so that's not an argument against incest. If your only concern is the likelihood of disease, you would be 100% against homosexuality, since homosexual men are many times more likely to get and spread HIV/AIDs, and despite being 2% of the US population, they account for over 2/3rds of all new HIV/AIDs cases in America each year.

Well come back to me when one of those lawsuits goes through.
They have gone through, read the articles. Several church faculty were arrested and/or fined.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

1. Bankruptcy can me immoral if it is done for evil reasons. 2. You can blame both since they both are bad
Prove that when Trump did it, it was for evil/immoral reasons. Otherwise your assertions are baseless.
 

FAST6191

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Humans pairing off in various formal and informal manners has be documented longer though, as has pairing in various forms in lesser animals so it could probably go back even further than that as some kind of biological thing. As a lot of religion arose out of and became legal traditions in various forms (at least until that was deemed a less than stellar idea in relatively recent history, give or take certain key events prior to that). Likewise I doubt the current religious definition of marriage would conform of that of the Torah, and there are certainly religious traditions in things like Islam that very much differ, so if the concept can change then "it is a religious thing, for religious people, doing religion" does rather sit on shaky ground. Equally even if it was a religious invention then there are plenty of ideas borrowed from, or at least first codified by, religions throughout history, using the same word could pose a grammatical problem (those meanings overload is hardly a new issue) at times but it is hardly an insurmountable issue.

Siblings and various degrees of relations can not consent to have sex any more than under age but "willing" people can. Polygamy I have no problems with (if 3 or more people want to be miserable...), it might take some legal wrangling to work out taxes, rights and such if you are going to head down that path, but at its core I have no problem with more than two capable types drawing up some kind of commitment contract.

I must confess I am not quite up to date on my current anti slavery practices, actors and status of things. I would not go so far as to say people do not care; you would be hard pressed to find a sizeable population say it is a good thing, oppose ending it/rescuing those subject to it and/or penalising those that might engage in it, whatever form it might take.

I have no problem with the concept of bankruptcy either, as was mentioned it is a rather preferable system to the alternatives. There may be even better ones but that is a different discussion. People abusing the system designed to protect people to instead pick existing companies clean, dodge having to pay debts, both competition and other such things by dint of some quirk are things I have issues with. The letter of the law is fine but holding yourself to a slightly higher standard, especially if you are running for a big office like this, does seem to be both a good thing and the accepted way.
 
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Haloman800

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Humans pairing off in various formal and informal manners has be documented longer though
Sure, where did I mention "Humans pairing is a religious thing"? You're straw-manning me. I stated that marriage is a religious institution that's been documented over 6,000 years ago. You also don't need marriage to have "human pairing".

We're off topic, so I'm not going to pursue this further.
 

Lacius

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I've stated repeatedly that the government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage, as it is a religious institution which was first recorded over 6,000 years ago in the Torah.
Marriage is not an exclusively religious institution. Not by a longshot.
In addition, arguing that the government should get out of the business of marriage means you want religiously married heterosexual couples to lose all of the governmental benefits of marriage they have now (e.g. survivor benefits, visitation rights, etc.).

Edit: Also, the Torah is not 6,000 years old.
 
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TotalInsanity4

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The week is coming to a close, as is this thread. We got some good debating in with strong opinions from both sides, can't wait to see what next weeks will be like :) I have decided that next week's topic will be gun control as planned, so if you would like to prepare arguments ahead of time be my guest
 
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