Hardware "So how about it Reggie: Was that worth the extra hour?"

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machomuu

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Actually, I think PMSS looks amazing, I can't wait for it. It's certainly not more of the same, and if you're going to baw because they changed up the formula...well, now I can understand why Pokemon is selling so well.

I'm not bawing because they're changing up the formula, I'm "bawing" because it's a really bad idea. They're turning a really fun RPG into an inventory management quest that's designed to either ruin a completionist's day (as they'd have to abandon some of their big stickers if they made them into stickers at the wrong time to free up inventory space) or waste your time (as you have to backtrack back and forth between the Perky Toad to convert "stuff" into stickers once you find the way to use those quest items).

Why couldn't the quest items just be that.. quest items.. that you keep in your inventory and use at the right time and don't waste inventory space? Oh yeah, that's right, to double your play time.
So you don't want to play the game for longer?

What don't you get about this? There's real play time, that's innovative gameplay that's different and fun. Then there's added gameplay which is backtracking back and forth and back and forth and accomplishing nothing while you're backtracking which just adds to your play time so you can claim "Woo, we have a 60 hour game". It's like in Zelda: Skyward Sword where you have to go back through dungeons you've completed before all the way to the boss room just to finish a fetch quest. That's not extra FUN gametime, it's just extra gametime.

So, no, I'd rather have a shorter, fun experience than a game that adds 100 hours by making me go back and forth or grind. Watch that video I linked by Egoraptor, he can summarise it much more nicely than I can. Chicken and churches.
Actually, there's no "grinding" to be done, they've pretty much gotten rid of a need for that with the riddance of EXP. Also, the quest items...there are 5 slots (probably more later on). If you really can't leave room for what will most likely be 5 quests worth of objects, plus the sticker space (where the quest items can be used in battle and in the OW), well...I don't think that'll be a problem very often. Besides, from looking at the fan, the quest items are pretty darn useful in battle and outside of it.
 

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Non-Specific-Action-Figure.jpg

was the best part of the whole show.
 
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Foxi4

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Besides, from looking at the fan, the quest items are pretty darn useful in battle and outside of it.
inb4 "You can't use this item here!" prompts.

I have a feeling that the RPG elements will be replaced by Point and Click elements where you'll be walking around the game world rubbing every item againts every item until something happens, and seeing that this is Paper Mario, none of those will be intuitive.

Still, the game "looked" fan fun.
 

KingVamp

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What don't you get about this? There's real play time, that's innovative gameplay that's different and fun. Then there's added gameplay which is backtracking back and forth and back and forth and accomplishing nothing while you're backtracking which just adds to your play time so you can claim "Woo, we have a 60 hour game". It's like in Zelda: Skyward Sword where you have to go back through dungeons you've completed before all the way to the boss room just to finish a fetch quest. That's not extra FUN gametime, it's just extra gametime.

So, no, I'd rather have a shorter, fun experience than a game that adds 100 hours by making me go back and forth or grind. Watch that video I linked by Egoraptor, he can summarise it much more nicely than I can. Chicken and churches.
Would making new dungeons to get a few items make any difference? Iirc i remember people complaining about not haven't
a reason to go back. I would give a more on topic reply ,but I haven't seen the conference.
 

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Actually, there's no "grinding" to be done, they've pretty much gotten rid of a need for that with the riddance of EXP. Also, the quest items...there are 5 slots (probably more later on). If you really can't leave room for what will most likely be 5 quests worth of objects, plus the sticker space (where the quest items can be used in battle and in the OW), well...I don't think that'll be a problem very often. Besides, from looking at the fan, the quest items are pretty darn useful in battle and outside of it.

The "quest items" are one use. You can either use it to solve the puzzle at the windmill OR in battle. If you use it in battle it'll own your opponent but it's gone forever, so now you can never solve that puzzle and never get its reward.

When I said "a game that adds 100 hours by making me go back and forth or grind", note the "or". I don't mean that this game makes you grind, I mean that grinding is a poor mechanic, like backtracking in this game. In the other Paper Marios you never had to grind though. I beat PM2 in half the reported game time so I should've been significantly lower level than I was meant to be at that point (I like to avoid enemies where possible), and the last boss was difficult, but possible. No grinding was necessary.

But they have stats that you increase for doing favours for people. So essentially you're forced to grind out doing favours like putting plants in the ground for a toad where the animation time takes ages as Mario dangles from a crane and slides down to plant them slowly or you'll be too weak in battle. But ironically there's no point in battling at all (use stickers to get stickers), so you may as well avoid enemies like the plague so you don't have to waste stickers (and time).

And my problem with quest items is not how many you can store in your "stuff" compartment but how many you can store as STICKERS in your sticker compartment. If you convert the wrong quest item to a sticker, you're lumbered with it for however long it takes till you find the solution it's used for. You can't just convert all your quest items into stickers, because you don't have the room, and you don't know when you'll get to use them, so your best option is to find the place where you might need a fan, for instance, backtrack all the way back, convert your fan into a sticker and then go all the way back.

That is fake gameplay. It's the difference between:
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Use fan.
and
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Backtrack to Perky Toad. Throw away stickers. Turn fan into sticker. Go all the way back to the puzzle. Use fan.

And the second version is not fun.
 

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The full specs for the Wii U have not been published and we have no idea what microsoft and sony are doing for their next generation. Microsoft got the head start with the 360 a number of years ago and people were saying that microsoft made a mistake releasing early and that sony was going to outclass them, ect and they sure came out fine as a matter of fact the xbox pretty much won the console war for the current gen.

People are just basing the prospective success of the WiiU on the Wii which is a pretty silly thing to do considering that it "seems" at this current point that nintendo is going back to their nintendo 64 era style of business.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/74235/fire-emblem-3ds-announced-for-north-america#item_28328014

They just announed Fire Emblem. ON TWITTER.

Why the FUCK was that not even mentioned ONCE in any of their THREE presentations, including the one DEVOTED to 3DS games?
 

Deltaechoe

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So what if the conferences this year were lackluster, there are still going to be games coming out for the systems but none of the big three want to release too much information at this time
 

machomuu

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That is fake gameplay. It's the difference between:
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Use fan.
and
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Backtrack to Perky Toad. Throw away stickers. Turn fan into sticker. Go all the way back to the puzzle. Use fan.

And the second version is not fun.
So basically, you'd rather be spoonfed than actually have to put effort into a puzzle.

I get what you're saying, but we don't know enough about the game to actually assume such a thing, other than that one Fan and what was explained.
 

Alexrose

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That is fake gameplay. It's the difference between:
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Use fan.
and
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Backtrack to Perky Toad. Throw away stickers. Turn fan into sticker. Go all the way back to the puzzle. Use fan.

And the second version is not fun.
So basically, you'd rather be spoonfed than actually have to put effort into a puzzle.

I get what you're saying, but we don't know enough about the game to actually assume such a thing, other than that one Fan and what was explained.

How is walking from one place to another 10 minutes away and back putting effort into a puzzle?

Putting effort into a puzzle = thinking about how to solve it. A puzzle is supposed to stump you intellectually. This is not even a puzzle. This is "I'm going to go make this item into a sticker now". That doesn't require an ounce of intelligence. It's just monotonous boring backtracking.

It's called making you spending more time on the game to add invisible value to it, but you're getting nothing.

And we saw his inventory with lots of items he can make into stickers, and then saw how you have to manage that in your inventory and each sticker has a specific use. That logically gives us enough information to deduce what I've said.
 

Deltaechoe

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That is fake gameplay. It's the difference between:
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Use fan.
and
Find puzzle. Realise solution is fan. Backtrack to Perky Toad. Throw away stickers. Turn fan into sticker. Go all the way back to the puzzle. Use fan.

And the second version is not fun.
So basically, you'd rather be spoonfed than actually have to put effort into a puzzle.

I get what you're saying, but we don't know enough about the game to actually assume such a thing, other than that one Fan and what was explained.
You forget, we're in the age of casual gaming, where people can't be bothered to think to game (and probably can't anymore anyway)
 

Alexrose

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You forget, we're in the age of casual gaming, where people can't be bothered to think to game (and probably can't anymore anyway)

Since when does adding the step "Walk from point B to point A and then back to point B again" add THOUGHT to a puzzle?

Protip: It doesn't. If you think that requires intelligence then clearly you're the target market they had in mind when they dumbed this game down to fuck.
 

machomuu

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Putting effort into a puzzle = thinking about how to solve it. A puzzle is supposed to stump you intellectually. This is not even a puzzle. This is "I'm going to go make this item into a sticker now". That doesn't require an ounce of intelligence. It's just monotonous boring backtracking.
Woah woah woah...wait. Seriously? You're going off on this because you'll have to go back to the hub to turn quest items into stickers? First, that's not apart of the puzzle, that should be obvious. The puzzle is figuring out how, why, and where one will use the sticker. Not to mention that, as you saw, the areas aren't that big, and a hub world is a hub world. Hub worlds are usually incredibly easy to get back to. Chances are there will be other means of travel (ie. Piped).
 
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Alexrose

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Putting effort into a puzzle = thinking about how to solve it. A puzzle is supposed to stump you intellectually. This is not even a puzzle. This is "I'm going to go make this item into a sticker now". That doesn't require an ounce of intelligence. It's just monotonous boring backtracking.
Woah woah woah...wait. Seriously? You're going off on this because you'll have to go back to the hub to turn quest items into stickers? First, that's not apart of the puzzle, that should be obvious. The puzzle is figuring out how, why, and where one will use the sticker. Not to mention that, as you saw, the areas aren't that big, and a hub world is a hub world. Hub worlds are usually incredibly easy to get back to. Chances are there will be other means of travel (ie. Piped).

Are you serious? You've only just understood this? That was my whole point from the beginning. You already HAVE the quest items in your inventory. You find the puzzle, solve it, know what item you have to use. Normally it would be over, but no, now every time you solve any puzzle in the whole game you have to go all the way back to Perky Toad, turn the quest item into a sticker, go all the way back to the puzzle you've ALREADY SOLVED, and use your solution. That ISN'T NECESSARY, they did that to add to your play time. There's no reason why they should make you do that.

And if it's anything like previous Paper Mario games, it may well be "incredibly easy" to get back to but it still require 5/10 minutes to get there and back, EVERY SINGLE TIME you come across ANY puzzle in the WHOLE GAME. That's NOT fun.
 

machomuu

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Putting effort into a puzzle = thinking about how to solve it. A puzzle is supposed to stump you intellectually. This is not even a puzzle. This is "I'm going to go make this item into a sticker now". That doesn't require an ounce of intelligence. It's just monotonous boring backtracking.
Woah woah woah...wait. Seriously? You're going off on this because you'll have to go back to the hub to turn quest items into stickers? First, that's not apart of the puzzle, that should be obvious. The puzzle is figuring out how, why, and where one will use the sticker. Not to mention that, as you saw, the areas aren't that big, and a hub world is a hub world. Hub worlds are usually incredibly easy to get back to. Chances are there will be other means of travel (ie. Piped).

Are you serious? You've only just understood this? That was my whole point from the beginning. You already HAVE the quest items in your inventory. You find the puzzle, solve it, know what item you have to use. Normally it would be over, but no, now every time you solve any puzzle in the whole game you have to go all the way back to Perky Toad, turn the quest item into a sticker, go all the way back to the puzzle you've ALREADY SOLVED, and use your solution. That ISN'T NECESSARY, they did that to add to your play time. There's no reason why they should make you do that.

And if it's anything like previous Paper Mario games, it may well be "incredibly easy" to get back to but it still require 5/10 minutes to get there and back, EVERY SINGLE TIME you come across ANY puzzle in the WHOLE GAME. That's NOT fun.
I highly doubt that this will be that big of a deal, nor will it be a problem. Nintendo's not stupid, and they've dealt with many RPGs in the past. I almost think it's funny, because what I thought you were talking about actually would have been more of a problem. There is a lot they didn't show, such as how he got to the hub and sticker management. I really can't see Nintendo being so negligent as to actually look that over.
 

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I highly doubt that this will be that big of a deal, nor will it be a problem. Nintendo's not stupid, and they've dealt with many RPGs in the past. I almost think it's funny, because what I thought you were talking about actually would have been more of a problem. There is a lot they didn't show, such as how he got to the hub and sticker management. I really can't see Nintendo being so negligent as to actually look that over.

They didn't show it, because it's not interesting, it's boring time spent backtracking. Noone wants to see that at a conference. And guess why? Because noone enjoys it. He showed sticker management and he showed that the hub was so far away from the puzzle that it wasn't worth showing the journey. That's enough to make the logical leap to the fact that the biggest puzzle element to the game will be managing your inventory, throwing junk away, and then either guessing which quest items are going to come up next and hence what to turn into puzzles, throwing them away in the event that you guess incorrectly and thus preventing yourself from ever solving one of the game's "puzzles", avoiding any kind of fighting like the plague because there's no exp, and backtracking forward and backwards once you find what quest item you have to turn into a sticker.

That's what has become of one of the most innovative turn based RPG series ever released.
 

Deltaechoe

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You forget, we're in the age of casual gaming, where people can't be bothered to think to game (and probably can't anymore anyway)

Since when does adding the step "Walk from point B to point A and then back to point B again" add THOUGHT to a puzzle?

Protip: It doesn't. If you think that requires intelligence then clearly you're the target market they had in mind when they dumbed this game down to fuck.
Bro, you need to chill, you obviously have some unresolved issues here, why don't you take your aggressive commentary elsewhere
 

machomuu

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I highly doubt that this will be that big of a deal, nor will it be a problem. Nintendo's not stupid, and they've dealt with many RPGs in the past. I almost think it's funny, because what I thought you were talking about actually would have been more of a problem. There is a lot they didn't show, such as how he got to the hub and sticker management. I really can't see Nintendo being so negligent as to actually look that over.

They didn't show it, because it's not interesting, it's boring time spent backtracking.
Nope, that's not it. It was a jump to far later, because when he gained the fan he only had 1 quest item, when he arrived in town he had 5. Accepting and finding 5 quest items would eat up some conference time

Seriously, wait for more info. Clearly not enough has been introduced to damn the game.
 

Alexrose

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You forget, we're in the age of casual gaming, where people can't be bothered to think to game (and probably can't anymore anyway)

Since when does adding the step "Walk from point B to point A and then back to point B again" add THOUGHT to a puzzle?

Protip: It doesn't. If you think that requires intelligence then clearly you're the target market they had in mind when they dumbed this game down to fuck.
Bro, you need to chill, you obviously have some unresolved issues here, why don't you take your aggressive commentary elsewhere

Great strawman argument. For when you have nothing to add.


 

machomuu

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I highly doubt that this will be that big of a deal, nor will it be a problem. Nintendo's not stupid, and they've dealt with many RPGs in the past. I almost think it's funny, because what I thought you were talking about actually would have been more of a problem. There is a lot they didn't show, such as how he got to the hub and sticker management. I really can't see Nintendo being so negligent as to actually look that over.

They didn't show it, because it's not interesting, it's boring time spent backtracking.
Nope, that's not it. It was a jump to far later, because when he gained the fan he only had 1 quest item, when he arrived in town he had 5. Accepting and finding 5 quest items would eat up some conference time

So you're telling me you honestly believe that it's going to be a fun part of the game, getting to a puzzle, solving it in your mind, realising you have the quest item necessary, but having to walk all the way to the hub world and back in order to solve it? You think that's going to enrich and enhance your gameplay? You think that it wouldn't be better if you could just use the quest item immediately? You're that desperate to walk through the area you've just been through and fight through all the enemies, get to the booth, do the little cutscene, fight through all the enemies again for the third time and then solve the puzzle you solved conceptually in your head 10 minutes ago?

Jesus, maybe they were right to dumb down this game.
Actually, I never said any of that. In fact, I clearly stated that there are more likely easier means of getting to the hub world. You're trying to build FAR to much on that little bit you saw. Chill the heck out. Wait until more info is released. Do you realize that they never showed any backtracking in the trailer? There was none, filling in the gaps is conjecture, since there was nothing to hint otherwise.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I have a website to do and you're clearly dead set on disliking this game; far be it for me to try to change that, nor would I want to. After all, you save money this way.
 
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