Hacking Will ability to run Homebrew lead to non-chipped consoles playing copi

SG

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
437
Trophies
0
Age
39
Location
Bristol, UK
Website
Visit site
XP
425
Country
Someone on another forum said:

QUOTE said:
Going by the wiki, it can also run via TCP or USB-to-PC connections.

In a nutshell, if it can run unsigned code (IE homebrew), then you can be pretty much assured it's only a matter of time before an actual game (IE signed DOL files) launcher comes wandering along.

As soon as that happens you'll see a remarkable explosion in ze popularity of this particular hack, in the same way that Splinter Cell re-entered the charts shortly after the Xbox softmod gained "backup" booting.

...So could we be seeing copied DVDs (back ups OF COURSE!
tongue.gif
) being used on soft-modded (meaning HB-enabled but no chip) consoles in the future?
 

WildWon

EXTERMINATE!
Former Staff
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
2,822
Trophies
0
Location
8-Bit Heaven
XP
383
Country
United States
Tis a possibility. I mean, ANYTHING could happen, but apparently there is code being worked on for loading via USB drives (hd's and memory sticks)... and (DONT HOLD ME TO THIS) i'm under the impression that its close to being done.

So, who knows
wink.gif


(i am NOT a member of a scene group by any means, so i don't have any extra inside info... just from what i've been reading around the webs).
 

Kekkon

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
113
Trophies
0
Location
My Ivy Cradle
XP
303
Country
United States
I hope so, I personally hate to use original discs, somehow they always end up scratched no matter how good I take care of them, HDD loaders are bestfriends to people like me:P
 

Jacobeian

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
1,891
Trophies
0
XP
367
Country
Cuba
even if you could easily load ISO main dol from a USB HDD, the game still need to be patched to fake all original DVD accesses and make them read the ISO file instead, so this is a LOT of work, requiring full comprehension of the Starlet Chip and DVD access library

...and I'm not sure that the people having this knowledge actually are very in the mood of encouraging piracy
 

nitrotux

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
60
Trophies
0
XP
26
Country
United States
You first have to understand how Wii/GOD discs are encoded.

Both standard DVD-ROM's and Wii/GOD discs use sectors of 2064 bytes, but they are encoded differently.

A standard DVD-ROM's sector looks like this:
| ID | IED | CPR_MAI | User Data Frame | EDC |

and a Wii/GOD disc looks like this:
| ID | IED | User Data Frame | wii/goddata | EDC |

When you burn a Wii ISO, you're burning it with standard DVD-ROM encoding; Which the Wii does not understand.

What a modchip does is "translate" a sector from DVD-ROM to Wii/GOD encoding.

Now, if you could modify your burner's firmware to write the encoding exactly like a Wii understands it, then you might not need a modchip.
But as far as I know, nobody has ever tried this, because DVD burner firmware hacking is really hard.
 

denzil

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
88
Trophies
0
XP
11
Country
United States
nitrotux said:
What a modchip does is "translate" a sector from DVD-ROM to Wii/GOD encoding.
Consult the source code of any open-sourced modchip (I recommend the early YAOSM versions, they are quite easy to read) and you will see: A modchip does no such thing. It sets a few registers to make the Wii think it's a legit disk, and the correct type thereof, and that's about it. The drivechip's serial interface wouldn't even be fast enough to do translate full data, which means the early 5-solder point modchips would never have worked according to your theory.

And to answer the original question: This has been discussed ad nauseum, and it is not possible with an unmodified Wii IOS.
 

Hooya

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
1,878
Trophies
0
Age
40
Location
Central Illinois
Website
Visit site
XP
277
Country
United States
It'll never happen and here's why:

There is no other interface on the Wii other than it's DVD drive capable of reading data fast enough for games to be playable.

Since there is no way to re-write the DVD drive GC2-D2X chip firmware from the Wii itself, we'll never get the DVD drive to accept anything other than pressed (original) titles without a modchip on the DVD drive. Game encryption is an issue we can take care of with homebrew channels, true, but that won't mean anything if the Drive itself refuses to read the disk.

The SD card slot maxes out at 4GB if I remember right, so while you might be able to fit a truncated disk image on there it won't read nearly fast enough. The USB ports on the Wii are 1.1 (technically 2.0 high speed or whatever BS term they used for USB 1.1), not the true USB 2.0 (full speed?) that you probably have on your desktop computer, so it's even SLOWER than the SD slot!
 

zektor

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
1,323
Trophies
0
XP
318
Country
United States
Hooya said:
Since there is no way to re-write the DVD drive GC2-D2X chip firmware from the Wii itself, we'll never get the DVD drive to accept anything other than pressed (original) titles without a modchip on the DVD drive.

I believe that there absolutely is a way to write a firmware update to the drive through software via the current exploit. This is providing the flash on the drive is upgradable (re-writable) and someone would want to take on such a shady project. We upgrade drive firmware via software on PC drives, and while I understand the Wii is a vastly different beast than a standard PC, I would think with determination it could be possible to code a drive firmware upgrading application. I wouldn't want to see it happen personally, but I can imagine someone out there is making the attempt....again, providing the chip is of an upgradable nature.
 

Hooya

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
1,878
Trophies
0
Age
40
Location
Central Illinois
Website
Visit site
XP
277
Country
United States
zektor said:
Hooya said:
Since there is no way to re-write the DVD drive GC2-D2X chip firmware from the Wii itself, we'll never get the DVD drive to accept anything other than pressed (original) titles without a modchip on the DVD drive.

I disagree. I believe that there absolutely is a way to write a firmware update to the drive through software via the current exploit.

I'm willing to bet that chip would have to be re-programmed with hardware programmer. If that wasn't the case we'd already have ways to flash that chip since we've been interfacing with it since the Gamecube days (it's essentially the same hardware concept, so what we knew from the GC transferred over, which is one reason why the Wii was hacked so quickly after launch).
 

teq

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
1,232
Trophies
0
XP
5
Country
United States
Hooya said:
The SD card slot maxes out at 4GB if I remember right, so while you might be able to fit a truncated disk image on there it won't read nearly fast enough. The USB ports on the Wii are 1.1 (technically 2.0 high speed or whatever BS term they used for USB 1.1), not the true USB 2.0 (full speed?) that you probably have on your desktop computer, so it's even SLOWER than the SD slot!
nitrotux said:
What a modchip does is "translate" a sector from DVD-ROM to Wii/GOD encoding.
zektor
I disagree. I believe that there absolutely is a way to write a firmware update to the drive through software via the current exploit.


A lot of misinformation is being spread around here...

For one, the Wii's SD slot supports a maximum of 2GB. 4GB SD cards are SDHC, which the Wii doesn't currently support. This is software issue, as it's the filesystem that governs what is mountable and what isn't. Someone said they tested a 4GB SD card and it worked, but what they probably don't realize is the last 2GB isn't accessible.

As far as SD not being fast enough, the Wii's DVD drive reads at 8 MBs(megabytes, not bits) and I have an SD card that can do 20MBs. The problem is not speed, but volatility. You would burn an SD card out very quickly if it had to store ISOs. Also, more Wii games are moving to dual-layer DVDs, which are 8.5GB.


@Nitrotux, if you don't even know how a drivechip works, how is it that you claim to be writing a custom IOS and are able to interface with Starlet? I think you're full of it. You might want to get a new username and start fresh on the boards.

@Zektor, the Wii's DVD drive has a read-only firmware. If it weren't, it could've easily been patched, considering we already have knowledge of what drive it is(LG GDR-8162B variant).


Close this thread before this misinformation gets more out of hand.
 

HowardC

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
490
Trophies
0
XP
307
Country
United States
Well sdhc might not be supported by the wii's os, but as you said, it's a software issue. Wii homebrew already has rudimentary usb 1.0 support because someone wrote a driver, so something similar could be done to add sdhc, or at least "fake it" allowing the extra space to be read.

I would also like to point out that usb, even 1.0 is fast enough. Wii games rarely ever read the disc as a game is being played, rather, like most modern video games, it is buffered into memory, or at least a big chunk of it is. While we might have to deal with slower loading times and an occasional glitch, a usb solution would be doable.


Just a quick note....

I seems that nobody ever talks about the idea of actually getting your pc's dvd burner to burn in the wii format. This seems like it'd be easier to me. It might even require a hardware hack (drive re-flashing) on the pc end, but drives are cheap and messing with them is far safer. I'm not even sure a hardware hack is necessary. I was thinking burners are fairly dumb devices and most of the encoding is done on the driver end.
 

teq

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
1,232
Trophies
0
XP
5
Country
United States
HowardC said:
Well sdhc might not be supported by the wii's os, but as you said, it's a software issue. Wii homebrew already has rudimentary usb 1.0 support because someone wrote a driver, so something similar could be done to add sdhc, or at least "fake it" allowing the extra space to be read.

I'd have to look into it more, but I believe LibFat doesn't have a size restriction. So, it might only be the Wii's software limitation.


HowardC said:
I would also like to point out that usb, even 1.0 is fast enough. Wii games rarely ever read the disc as a game is being played, rather, like most modern video games, it is buffered into memory, or at least a big chunk of it is. While we might have to deal with slower loading times and an occasional glitch, a usb solution would be doable.

Hooya was wrong about one more thing:

I completely forgot to mention this in my last post, but the Wii actually has full speed USB 2.0 slots -- they're just limited right now.

QUOTE(HowardC @ Jun 26 2008, 09:21 PM)
I seems that nobody ever talks about the idea of actually getting your pc's dvd burner to burn in the wii format. This seems like it'd be easier to me. It might even require a hardware hack (drive re-flashing) on the pc end, but drives are cheap and messing with them is far safer. I'm not even sure a hardware hack is necessary. I was thinking burners are fairly dumb devices and most of the encoding is done on the driver end.

You wouldn't even have to modify the firmware, just bypass it and write the sectors in a RAW mode. I believe there's more to it than that, though.
 

nitrotux

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
60
Trophies
0
XP
26
Country
United States
denzil said:
nitrotux said:
What a modchip does is "translate" a sector from DVD-ROM to Wii/GOD encoding.
Consult the source code of any open-sourced modchip (I recommend the early YAOSM versions, they are quite easy to read) and you will see: A modchip does no such thing. It sets a few registers to make the Wii think it's a legit disk, and the correct type thereof, and that's about it. The drivechip's serial interface wouldn't even be fast enough to do translate full data, which means the early 5-solder point modchips would never have worked according to your theory.

And to answer the original question: This has been discussed ad nauseum, and it is not possible with an unmodified Wii IOS.


The translation is conceptual. The modchip ofcourse does not need to do any physical translation, it simply passes on the data from the DVD-ROM to the Wii.
 

denzil

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
88
Trophies
0
XP
11
Country
United States
nitrotux said:
The modchip ofcourse does not need to do any physical translation, it simply passes on the data from the DVD-ROM to the Wii.
Again, a modchip does not stream disk data. Again, a modchip influences the authentication, but nothing more. Again, the drivechip's serial port used by earlier modchips wouldn't even be fast enough to stream disk data, by a longshot. Your theory is flawed, please refrain from presenting it as fact.
 

jan777

motion control..? srsly? so 2008. 3DS is teh bombz
Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,827
Trophies
0
Age
26
XP
385
Country
seriously why do people want to play backups without chips?

to keep the warranty? havent they noticed that their warranty will probably expire first before they will be able to do this
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
    katebeyond @ katebeyond: Monster Hunter Stories 2 Save Does anyone have a 100% complete storyline save?