Why vista should have been an expansionpack

[ZeWarrior]

My bad. I just assumed I guess. You do hate every single microsoft product though, right?

No, I kind of like XP for gaming a bit. Vista is not that bad but is bloated you have to change a few processes to speed it up to XP's speed which is a little annoyance

 

[ZeWarrior]

And that's bull shit SSD are much, much faster then HDDs
Not for random writes they aren't.



For reading I meant. And thats what It's all about.

What are you talking about? Virtual memory uses ALOT of random writes.

You don't need Virtual Memory if your PC has 2GB of RAM or more. Only if it sucks will it need to write fast and an SSD is still faster at writting than the average 5400RPM laptop drive. And yes this is a fair comparison since SSDs are only available to laptops NOT desktops.

 

[Nero]

My bad. I just assumed I guess. You do hate every single microsoft product though, right?


No, I kind of like XP for gaming a bit. Vista is not that bad but is bloated you have to change a few processes to speed it up to XP's speed which is a little annoyance

Yeah, same here.

I'm thinking about upgrading to Vista from XP SP2... Or maybe not..

~Nero

 

[ZeWarrior]

Finally Urza and Linkiboy stopped arguing. And Nero you and I are similar in some ways

 

[kellyan95]

But you can go further with Vista, and make it faster than XP. I get better DX performance in Vista than I ever did in XP

 

[AshuraZro]

I don't understand why people bother discussing this anymore. Let's just keep it simple.

Don't like Vista? Don't use it.

Like Vista? Use it.

Me? I don't have any major problems with Vista. I like it. I've been running Windows Vista Business since launch (and the RCs before hand too) on my laptop and have had no serious problems outside of a few usual Windows related issues. The laptop has a Mobility X1400, 2.16 GHz T2600 Core Duo and a gig of ram. Anyone that says you need 2GB to have an enjoyable experience with Vista is full of shit. It runs perfect, even holds up great with a VM or two running.

Probably my biggest problems with Vista is that ATI Mobile driver support is lacking due to legal reasons between ATI and Laptop manufacturers, something that Mobility Modder fixes in a jiffy anyways and even then this is not Microsoft's problem at all. Second problem is just the hoops you got to jump through to get to some settings, especially network. But it's nothing a couple of shortcuts can't fix.

Now I don't pretend to know all about Vista. I don't. Not in the least. I do know there's a lot of new things going on under the hood but I don't know remotely enough to even discuss that. But if I can use it just like I have used XP with no serious issues and no drop in performance, I don't see a problem.

So there, that's both my biggest problems fixed in probably about 5 minutes of work max.

Oh and about the 2GB of ram being kick-ass. Urza is right. 2GB of ram is hardly kick ass. You'd never brag to someone about having 2GB of ram these days.

Kick ass would be SLi-8800GTX cards from BFG. The ones with the watercooling. There's kick ass. Putting 4 500GB drives in your computer or even grabbing a TB or two. There's kick ass. 2GB of ram that costs about $60-$100 total? Not so much kick ass.

Time to finish this up. Even suggesting the use of a solid state drive for standard OS use is completely absurd, don't you think?

 

[ZeWarrior]

I don't understand why people bother discussing this anymore. Let's just keep it simple.

Don't like Vista? Don't use it.

Like Vista? Use it.

Me? I don't have any major problems with Vista. I like it. I've been running Windows Vista Business since launch (and the RCs before hand too) on my laptop and have had no serious problems outside of a few usual Windows related issues. The laptop has a Mobility X1400, 2.16 GHz T2600 Core Duo and a gig of ram. Anyone that says you need 2GB to have an enjoyable experience with Vista is full of shit. It runs perfect, even holds up great with a VM or two running.

Probably my biggest problems with Vista is that ATI Mobile driver support is lacking due to legal reasons between ATI and Laptop manufacturers, something that Mobility Modder fixes in a jiffy anyways and even then this is not Microsoft's problem at all. Second problem is just the hoops you got to jump through to get to some settings, especially network. But it's nothing a couple of shortcuts can't fix.

Now I don't pretend to know all about Vista. I don't. Not in the least. I do know there's a lot of new things going on under the hood but I don't know remotely enough to even discuss that. But if I can use it just like I have used XP with no serious issues and no drop in performance, I don't see a problem.

So there, that's both my biggest problems fixed in probably about 5 minutes of work max.

Oh and about the 2GB of ram being kick-ass. Urza is right. 2GB of ram is hardly kick ass. You'd never brag to someone about having 2GB of ram these days.

Kick ass would be SLi-8800GTX cards from BFG. The ones with the watercooling. There's kick ass. Putting 4 500GB drives in your computer or even grabbing a TB or two. There's kick ass. 2GB of ram that costs about $60-$100 total? Not so much kick ass.

Time to finish this up. Even suggesting the use of a solid state drive for standard OS use is completely absurd, don't you think?

He suggested 15k rpm drives.. All of a sudden it doesn't seem absurd does it

 

[AshuraZro]

Your point is lacking... well, a point. I looked at your original statement. I don't care what anybody else suggested down the road.

 

[Urza]

You don't need Virtual Memory if your PC has 2GB of RAM or more.
Do you even read what you reply to?

Yet, despite all this, I get pissed off when people complain that Vista's memory usage is high. Vista caches many things in your RAM so it doesn't have to constantly pull it off your hard drive, which is much, much slower.

Solid State Drives




QUOTEOnly if it sucks will it need to write fast and an SSD is still faster at writting than the average 5400RPM laptop drive. And yes this is a fair comparison since SSDs are only available to laptops NOT desktops.

SSD performs random writes at about the same speed as something low-end like a 5400RPM drive. Plus its not really a fair comparison, because SSDs cost about 10 times as much.

 

[amptor]

ya I agree with urza.. windows vista is far better than XP anyway, I don't care if anyone wants to argue against that lol... I get no spyware even if I try to infect my pc and also it runs fine. I pirated the ultimate onto my laptop by mearely installing the manufacturer cd and it's all authenticated, no need to crack the o/s any more these days... pretty nice stuff.


My Home PC is almost 2 years old... I scan it with Norton, Panda, and a couple other scanners.

There wasn't anything to be found... I guess I'm just safe with the porn sites I visit.

(What? Ain't that how you guys get viruses these days?)

~Nero

EDIT: Almost 2 years old... Erased "and a half"

nor does mine, there's a word for it, it's called "luck". I'm on a 5 year old PC right now and I wouldn't want to even think about trying to use vista on this thing but at some point it's going to be replaced with at least a P4 with vista on it. XP is too much strain. It's just an easily exploited operating system and it is pretty sad how easy it is to get infected and how difficult it is to remove malware and such.

 

[Lukeage]

ya I agree with urza.. windows vista is far better than XP anyway, I don't care if anyone wants to argue against that lol... I get no spyware even if I try to infect my pc and also it runs fine. I pirated the ultimate onto my laptop by mearely installing the manufacturer cd and it's all authenticated, no need to crack the o/s any more these days... pretty nice stuff.


My Home PC is almost 2 years old... I scan it with Norton, Panda, and a couple other scanners.

There wasn't anything to be found... I guess I'm just safe with the porn sites I visit.

(What? Ain't that how you guys get viruses these days?)

~Nero

EDIT: Almost 2 years old... Erased "and a half"

nor does mine, there's a word for it, it's called "luck". I'm on a 5 year old PC right now and I wouldn't want to even think about trying to use vista on this thing but at some point it's going to be replaced with at least a P4 with vista on it. XP is too much strain. It's just an easily exploited operating system and it is pretty sad how easy it is to get infected and how difficult it is to remove malware and such.

It isn't so much luck as common sense. Not opening every email attachment you get, not downloading crap from random websites, etc... instantly removes a significant chance of getting anything nasty. I personally haven't run antivirus in about 5 or so years and the odd time I do a scan (usually because someone always replies "but if you don't have antivirus, how do you know your files aren't infected") I've always come up clean. I probably wouldn't recommend that to the Average Joe however.

 

[Rankio]

What was said about SSD so far has been true and a good article to read about them is here: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1083/8/f...ghts/index.html

But this is also with one type of drive and in due time more drives will come about which will be faster/cheaper/etc. HDD prices haven't fallen to cheap levels until the past year or two. In due time I believe SSDs will replace HDDs.

To quote the article's last page:

The advantages continue when we start to discuss power consumption, which is always crucial, when it comes to notebook battery life. Team told us that the most its SSD will use is 0.5 watts – regular notebook drives use between 2 – 3+ watts. Seagate's 7200.10 line of 7,200-rpm hard drives have an operating average power consumption of 13 watts, which is 26 times more than the SSD. Not only is SSD going to increase battery life but, it also shines greener.

Since the Team SSD is using high-grade Samsung SLC NAND flash, accessing data is super quick. During testing we noted random access times of anywhere from 0.5 to 0.8 milliseconds. Compared to most current desktop or notebook hard drives, the performance difference is astounding at around 13 to 14 milliseconds versus around 0.8 milliseconds. As long as you are not dependent on read and write speeds, SSD is going to allow you to access data much quicker than a regular hard disk drive providing big benefits to applications such as swap files and data that needs to be accessed quickly.

So accessing data is much much quicker but writing files isn't up to par with 7200 drives.

 

[Urza]

But this is also with one type of drive and in due time more drives will come about which will be faster/cheaper/etc. HDD prices haven't fallen to cheap levels until the past year or two. In due time I believe SSDs will replace HDDs.

It depends what you consider "due time".

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/25/ssd-pri...s-anytime-soon/

 

[ZeWarrior]

You don't need Virtual Memory if your PC has 2GB of RAM or more.
Do you even read what you reply to?

Yet, despite all this, I get pissed off when people complain that Vista's memory usage is high. Vista caches many things in your RAM so it doesn't have to constantly pull it off your hard drive, which is much, much slower.

Solid State Drives

Only if it sucks will it need to write fast and an SSD is still faster at writting than the average 5400RPM laptop drive. And yes this is a fair comparison since SSDs are only available to laptops NOT desktops.

SSD performs random writes at about the same speed as something low-end like a 5400RPM drive. Plus its not really a fair comparison, because SSDs cost about 10 times as much.

You always come back to the Price, Yet That's not the point. The point is Solid state drives Read and write almost instantly since parts don't have to move unlike an HDD.

 

[Urza]

You always come back to the Price, Yet That's not the point. The point is Solid state drives Read and write almost instantly since parts don't have to move unlike an HDD.

You seem to be incapable of reading, or retaining any information. Short term memory loss perhaps?

As has been mentioned several times, the random write speeds are no better than the standard to low-end HDDs of today.

And how you keep mentioning "price isn't the point", thats just stupid. Price should always be taken into consideration.

My theory? You just keep posting in some vain attempt to try and maintain what you think is an appearance of being informed on the discussion at hand. Yet every time you do reply, you're just digging a larger hole to fill your ignorance with.

Until you actually bring some facts to the table, I suggest you don't continue.

 

[ZeWarrior]

You always come back to the Price, Yet That's not the point. The point is Solid state drives Read and write almost instantly since parts don't have to move unlike an HDD.

You seem to be incapable of reading, or retaining any information. Short term memory loss perhaps?

I didn't insult you why are you insulting me?

As has been mentioned several times, the random write speeds are no better than the standard to low-end HDDs of today.

And how you keep mentioning "price isn't the point", thats just stupid. Price should always be taken into consideration.

Normally I would agree with you here but.. HE MENTIONED RAM IS FASTER THAN HARD DRIVES. THAT IS ALL. I replied with a Simple '' Solid State Drives '' He doesn't care about the Price. I DONT care about the price. Price doesn't have to be taken into consideration in this situation. Stop insisting on that.

My theory? You just keep posting in some vain attempt to try and maintain what you think is an appearance of being informed on the discussion at hand. Yet every time you do reply, you're just digging a larger hole to fill your ignorance with.

Until you actually bring some facts to the table, I suggest you don't continue.

bold

 

[Urza]

I wasn't insulting. Merely making a guess as to why you can't seem to retain certain facts that keep being repeated.

Normally I would agree with you here but.. HE MENTIONED RAM IS FASTER THAN HARD DRIVES. THAT IS ALL. I replied with a Simple '' Solid State Drives ''

Then I'm disappointed that I just wasted so much time arguing over a completely irrelevant statement.

 

[ZeWarrior]

I wasn't insulting. Merely making a guess as to why you can't seem to retain certain facts that keep being repeated.

Normally I would agree with you here but.. HE MENTIONED RAM IS FASTER THAN HARD DRIVES. THAT IS ALL. I replied with a Simple '' Solid State Drives ''
Then I'm disappointed that I just wasted so much time arguing over a completely irrelevant statement.

Maybe you didn't think much of it but to me it was insulting. I have to agree with the last statement there. ( unless it was sarcastic and if it was you must be stupid because it really was irrelevant. )

 

[xcalibur]

i was disapointed by this...
it just repeated all the facts we know and its not even a rant.

and no, vista shouldnt have been an expansion pack, it shouldve been better.
less mac os clone and more.... (windows doesnt really fit here does it?)
also it shouldve been out a lot earlier, shouldnt take up that many resources and of course it shouldnt have such a retardedly high cost

 

[ZeWarrior]

i was disapointed by this...
it just repeated all the facts we know and its not even a rant.

and no, vista shouldnt have been an expansion pack, it shouldve been better.
less mac os clone and more.... (windows doesnt really fit here does it?)
also it shouldve been out a lot earlier, shouldnt take up that many resources and of course it shouldnt have such a retardedly high cost

You sir know what you're talking about, just don't know how to say it. I praise you