Gaming why is nintendo seen as the underdog of graphics?

[T3GZdev]

since the arrival of this gen i have begun to see everyware, everyone saying the PS3 & 360 are more powerful than the Wii. its true there actually twice as powerful than the wii, but a new gen is comeing, next gen, & some are expecting the PS4 & XB360 2 to be more powerful than nintendos next console, some arent, but noone can tell until june e3.
as from what i remember nintendo has always been on top with graphics.

a breif history of processing powers of every console from nes to current gen.

Spoiler

1st Gen
>NES, Famicom

• CPU = 1.79 MHz (8-bit Ricoh 2A03)
• RAM = 2KB
• VRAM = 2KB

>Sega Master System

• CPU = 3.58MHz (8/16-bit Zilog Z80)
• Main RAM = 8KB
• VRAM = 16KB

2nd Gen
>SNES, Super Famicom

• CPU = 3.58MHz (16-bit Ricoh 5A22)
• Main RAM = 128KB
• VRAM = 64KB

>Sega Genesis, Mega Drive

• CPU = 7.67MHs (16/32-bit Motorola 68000)
• Co-CPU = 3.58MHz (8-bit Zilog Z80)
• RAM = 64KB (68000)
• VRAM = 64KB

+Sega CD

• CPU = 12.5MHz (16-bit MC68000)
• RAM = 4Mb

+Sega 32x

• CPU = 23MHz (2x SH2 32-bit RISC processors)
• RAM = 256KB

3rd Gen
>N64

• CPU = 93.5MHz (64-bit NEC VR4300)
• Co-CPU = 62.5MHz (64-bit SGI RCP)
• RAM = 4MB (expandable to 8MB Expansion Pak)
• External Storage = 32KB (Controller Pak)

+N64DD

• CPU = (32-bit)
• Media = 64 MB (Magneto-optical discs)

>Sega Saturn

• CPU = 28.63MHz (2x Hitachi SuperH-2 7604 32-bit RISC processors)
• RAM = 16Mb
• VRAM = 12Mb

>Playstation, One

• CPU = 33.8688 ( 32-bit MIPS R3000A-family R3051)
• VRAM = 1MB
• External Storage = 128kB Memory Card

4th Gen
>Gamecube

• CPU = 486MHz (IBM "Gekko" PowerPC )
• GPU = 162MHz (ATi Tech"Flipper")
• RAM = 43MB
• External Storage = 512KB,2MB, 8MB, (16MB max) (gamecube memory card)
• Media = 1.4GB (Nintendo optical discs), (DVD on panasonic version)

>Dreamcast

• CPU = 200MHz (128-bit Hitachi SH4 RISC)
• GPU = 100 MHz (PowerVR2 CLX2)
• RAM = 16MB
• VRAM = 8MB
• External Storage = 128KB (VMU)
• VMU CPU = 8-bit (Sanyo LC8670 "Potato")
• Media = 1.2GB (GD-ROM), CD

>Playstation 2, Slim

• CPU = 294.912MHz (295MHz)(299 on slim) (64-bit Emotion Engine)
• GPU = 147MHz (Graphics Synthesize)
• External Storage = 8MB (PS2 Memory Card), 1MB (PS1 Memory Card), (40GB HDD)
• Media = DVD, CD

>Xbox

• CPU = 733MHz (32-bit Intel Pentium III)
• GPU = 233MHz (nVidia NC2A)
• RAM = 64MB (DDR SDRAM 200MHz)
• Internal Storage = 8, 10GB (HDD)
• External Storage = 8MB (xbox Memory Card)
• Media = DVD, CD

Current Gen
>Wii

• CPU = 729MHz (PowerPC Broadway)
• GPU = 243 MHz (ATi Hollywood)
• Co-GPU? = 243MHz (Starlet)
• RAM = 88MB (24 MB "internal" 1T-SRAM , 64 MB "external" GDDR3 SDRAM)
• Internal Storage = 512 MB
• External Storage = 32GB(SD,SDHC), also (gamecube memory card)
• Physical Media = 4.7GB, 8.45GB (Dual Layer) (Wii Nintendo optical discs), Gamecube

>Playstation 3, Slim

• CPU = 3.2GHz (Cell Broadband Engine)
• GPU = 550MHz (NVIDIA/SCEI RSX 'Reality Synthesizer')
• RAM = 256 MB (XDR DRAM)
• VRAM = 256 MB (GDDR3)
• Internal Storage = 20 GB, 40 GB, 60 GB, 80 GB, 120 GB, 160 GB, 250 GB, 320 GB(2.5-inch SATA HDD)
  Physical Media = Blueray, DVD, PS2, PS

>Xbox 360, Slim

• CPU = 3.2GHz (PowerPC Tri-Core Xenon)
• GPU = 500MHz (ATI Xenos)
• RAM = 512MB (GDDR3 700MHz)
• Internal Storage = (4GB some models), 20 GB, 60 GB, 120 GB, 250 GB (Detachable HDD)
• Physical Media = DVD, CD, HD-DVD(add on)

Next Gen
>Project Cafe = ???
>PS4 = ???
>XB 360 2 = ???
>Oth = ???

& as for handhelds

Spoiler

1st Gen
Gameboy, Pocket, Light
CPU = 4.19MHz (8-bit Sharp LR35902)
RAM = 8KB (internal S-RAM)
VRAM = 8KB (internal)

Sega Gamegear
CPU = 3.58MHz (8-bit Zailog Z80)
Main RAM = 8KB
VRAM = 16KB

2nd Gen
Gameboy Color
CPU = 8MHz (8-bit Custom Zailog Z80 copy)
Main RAM = 32KB
VRAM = 16KB

3rd Gen
Gameboy Advence, SP, SP2, Micro
CPU = 16.8MHz (8-bit ARM7TDMI)
VRAM = 32KB + 96 KB (internal CPU)
WRAM = 256KB(external CPU)

4th Gen
DS, Light
CPU = 67MHz (ARM946E-S)
Co-CPU = 33MHz (ARM7TDMI)
RAM = 4MB (SRAM) (expandable to 8MB+ via GBA slot)
Internal Storage = 256KB

Current Gen
DSi, XL
CPU = 133MHz (ARM 9)
Co-CPU = 33MHz (ARM7)
RAM = 16MB (PSRAM)
Internal Storage = 256MB
External Storage = 2GB SD, 32GB SDHC

Next Gen
3DS
CPU =
GPU =
RAM = 128MB (FCRAM) ?
Internal Storage = 2GB
External Storage = SD, SDHC, SDXL

NGP
Oth

from what im seeing in the handhelds every handheld up to DSi has been twice as powerful as the last. & 3ds just passed Wii completely(i think

, i know it passed gamecube).
but for consoles, the nes did somethign revolutionary, 2nd had best graphics, 3rd had best graphics until xbox came, & current gen had lowest graphics. the way i see it tho, nintendos only been behind sony in graphics 1 gen, & microsoft 2 gens. you guys think next gen there gonna make a comeback in best graphics next gen? my guess for now is that its gonna either be the best in graphics, or in the middle. but we can never tell for sure until june.

update: i just had a theory in mind.

Spoiler

during the n64 & ps1 era the n64 had better specs graphics, but the ps1 had a new type of media Disk. which are faster(not in loading time tho), & hold more than cartages. & the games looked better. what if the next gen console(any one) used a new type of media that out ranks disk. meaning, faster, holds more space, & requires less CPU meaning consoles wont have to be as powerful. by media i mean physical, not what onlive is doing altho theres is also an option. maby next gen games will be stored on sata hdds? or compact flash? hdd are gettgin cheaper so i dont see it as impossible in future.
lol or they could storing games on superman. nothings faster than him.

what do you guys think? discuss..

edit:fixed some typos, & specs.

 

[Necron]

Nes and SNES were great. But I think the Ps1 was over the N64. Even with technical details, it was surpassed as a console. Fanboys (or normal people) can argue about the Wii being the leader in this gen, so best CPU and other things don't guarantee a good console.

edit:typo

 

[Ikki]

"3rd had best graphics until xbox came"
That means it didn't have the best graphics.

And the 3DS doesn't pass the Wii, not at all. It just has better lighting capabilities, what gives an illusion of better graphics.

As for the question, I'm pretty sure Café will be less powerful than the PS4/Next Microsoft home console. But not for a lot.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Nintendo mostly went unopposed for a while. They're only competition was Sega until the N64 era. Even if the N64 was more powerful, the PSX still had better looking games, hands down.

The Gamecube era was basically a stalemate between the three, there wasn't much difference in graphics honestly.

Then Nintendo decided to push out an underpowered console and sold it on motion controls. The DS also got completely blown out of the water in graphics by the PSP.

Odds are Project Cafe will be an equivalent in power to as the Wii was to the Gamecube. Slightly more powerful but compared to Sony and Microsoft's next gen consoles, it'll be completely dwarfed.

 

[Rydian]

The Genesis had better graphics/hardware, but shitty sound compared to the SNES.

The N64 did have 64-bit stuff, but most games used 32-bit instructions because they were faster/easier or something like that. The PSX had much higher storage capacity so it could have textures out the ass, and FMVs and atmospheric music and stuff that really impressed people and set a mood. While a higher fill rate is cool, it doesn't make a game better by itself.

 

[T3GZdev]

update:added a 2nd thoght

 

[Baboo77]

I think it might be a stall mate when all the next gen systems come out. The reason I say this is because of production costs. Unless Sony and MS want to price themselves out of the market they will need to keep the costs down. Rumors are that Nintendo will be packing some serious punch into their next Gen, it will also cost more than the Wii did. That doesn't leave a huge margin for the competition to play with if they want to remain competitive price wise. Although MS and Sony probably won't be launching their next Gen for another 2 years and the price of technology might drop a little giving them an edge, I don't think it there will be a drastic difference graphically between them all like we see now with the Wii.

 

[Clarky]

your second theory seems well off...the playstation used cd-roms yes but it didn't allow it to load games faster than a n64 nor did the games on it look better. Playstation games did use a lot of fmv due to the spare space cd-roms had but the n64 could handle them as well as was proved with resident evil 2, just that space was very limited in cartridge form.

Anyway as far as the Wii's graphical power goes, during the development of the wii nintendo had a choice, gamble it away on making a power house again or try something new with motion controls, they chose the latter. Seems funny when people get upset over the Wii's power as it is one of the few times Nintendo has gone for an underpowered console in the current market and seems to attract all the bad attention, last gen was the ps2 was the worst in terms of power yet that came off best

 

[tbgtbg]

The Genesis had better graphics/hardware, but shitty sound compared to the SNES.

The Genesis most certainly did not have better graphics than the SNES. Nothing on the Genesis looks as good as the top looking SNES games, and any game I'm aware of with ports on both Gen and SNES looks superior on the SNES (though sometimes they did play better on the Gen).

 

[Rydian]

The Genesis had better graphics/hardware, but shitty sound compared to the SNES.

The Genesis most certainly did not have better graphics than the SNES. Nothing on the Genesis looks as good as the top looking SNES games, and any game I'm aware of with ports on both Gen and SNES looks superior on the SNES (though sometimes they did play better on the Gen).

You're right, I just checked and had it backwards. Could have sworn the genesis was the system with better video hardware...

 

[anaxs]

i doubt they would better than anything so far, maybe just a little better than the wii, but nothing close to other consoles like PS3 or Xbox 36, maybe in a few years they'll get there

 

[Clarky]

i doubt they would better than anything so far, maybe just a little better than the wii, but nothing close to other consoles like PS3 or Xbox 36, maybe in a few years they'll get there

do you mean in terms of computing power or a libray of games? if the latter well yes because it takes time for any console to build up a good libray

 

[Zarxrax]

Nintendo's console will definitely be weaker than the next xbox and playstation.
It's going to launch first by a year or more, giving the others time to put in much more advanced hardware. Nintendo is also not going to charge a fortune for their consoles. Sony has already shown that they aren't afraid to charge over $500 for their consoles, so unless nintendo can compete with that, then CLEARLY, its system will not be as powerful.

 

[T3GZdev]

your second theory seems well off...the playstation used cd-roms yes but it didn't allow it to load games faster than a n64 nor did the games on it look better. Playstation games did use a lot of fmv due to the spare space cd-roms had but the n64 could handle them as well as was proved with resident evil 2, just that space was very limited in cartridge form.

Anyway as far as the Wii's graphical power goes, during the development of the wii nintendo had a choice, gamble it away on making a power house again or try something new with motion controls, they chose the latter. Seems funny when people get upset over the Wii's power as it is one of the few times Nintendo has gone for an underpowered console in the current market and seems to attract all the bad attention, last gen was the ps2 was the worst in terms of power yet that came off best

i didnt mean like load faster, yes with cd-roms brought loading times. but like other things. like storage.
thats why i was like what if nintendo found something better than cd-rom/blueray. like maby compact flash, or 2.5hdds. with built in CPU & RAM.
i also said that because i was reading something a couple of days ago about a leaked patient, i think it was saying something about a cartrage or something.
here. http://n4g.com/news/750617/nintendo-patent...resting-results
& here http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070123353.pdf

 

[T3GZdev]

Nintendo's console will definitely be weaker than the next xbox and playstation.
It's going to launch first by a year or more, giving the others time to put in much more advanced hardware. Nintendo is also not going to charge a fortune for their consoles. Sony has already shown that they aren't afraid to charge over $500 for their consoles, so unless nintendo can compete with that, then CLEARLY, its system will not be as powerful.

nintendo has alerady said there doing things diffrently this time. also im seeing alot of places that it may be around the price of $350(not that i belive those sources).
but as for playstation there last console launched around $600 i dont think they want to do that again so this gen, also with all of the law saits there having, so this gen they may lag behind in graphics escially if there gonna release ps4 & ngp.
but microsoft they may have the most powerful(i have nothing to prove this) but i read something today about EA having a dev kit for xb 360 2(so there working on it).Here
thats why i said i see nintendo either having the most powerful or in the middle.
who knows tho, thay may all have same specs, or another may jain the consoles & that one may be more powerful than the 3 thats why i added the oth lol

 

[Foxi4]

So, SNES was the underdog againts the Genesis/Megadrive, even if ever so slightly and even if you can't really see that in games - we're speaking hardware-wise here. The Gamecube was the underdog againts the XBox, the Wii is the underdog againts... anything, actually... and your point is?

Gameboy Color's CPU was 4/8Mhz btw. And it was easily beaten performance-wise by the NeoGeo Pocket and Color, clocked at 6,144 Mhz(16 bit) + 3 Mhz Sound CPU(8-bit), and also by the WonderSwan with its 16-bit 3mhz CPU. The CPU that was used as the heart of the Gameboy was used as the co-procesor of the NeoGeo - that tells you something about Zilog's doesn't it?

Advance was competing with N-Gage, clocked at 104Mhz. Not much to say there. Outperformed on all fronts. You actually get to play a few N-Gage ports on the DS.

The DSi was a huge disappointment. It didn't even outperform the aging PSP. Not only that, it was never put to proper use - the bonus capabilities were only used in a few crap games and DSiWare.


Trying to push the argument that Nintendo always had top-notch hardware is moot - it only occoured with the N64, but still, the design was too clumsy to win againts the PlayStation.

ALL THAT SAID THOUGH, Nintendo's new console will be the first of its generation. It is likely that it will top what the PS3 and the XBox360 showed. It is also likely, if not certain, that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles will top it aswell.

 

[naved.islam14]

I think the Wiiii will be a little better than current gen consoles.

 

[SinHarvest24]

The Wii2 will definitely be better than current generation consoles but when the next-gen xbox/Ps4? comes out their graphical prowess may definitely trump the Wii2. But the Wii 2 being release way before the other next gens give's it a disadvantage.

 

[Foxi4]

The Wii2 will definitely be better than current generation consoles but when the next-gen xbox/Ps4? comes out their graphical prowess may definitely trump the Wii2. But the Wii 2 being release way before the other next gens give's it a disadvantage.

Not necessarily. The fact that it's going to be released way ahead of Sony/Microsoft schedule may give it the upper hand here.

Recall the situation with the PS2. It was the weakest console of its generation, but since it was released first, many people bought it. Not only that, its competitors weren't really offering "much" more than the PS2, while the PS2 already had a vast library of titles to stand on.

It was the basis of PS2's massive success. It could be the case for the Wii2.

Seeing that developers and designers are already "stetching it" as far as hardware goes, I doubt that the XBox720/PS4 will be ground-breaking. It will be stronger, but not all that much. This could be an argument to stay with the Wii2 and it's entirely possible that the mainstream crowd would shift the attention to this console if the games released for it will be interesting enough.

 

[alex_0706]

well with a correct video cable (5 in/outputs)

you can get much better graphics than with a notmal in/output

and a full hd tv also counts