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Why are many “progressive” left-leaning people supporting Hamas?

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JustABadger

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EDIT: a big "fuck you" to the staffer that edited the title. I'm not participating in this thread anymore. Thanks for proving my point, jackass.

I‘m left leaning. Very left leaning. I don’t like religions. I follow none.

Yet I have never thought that Israel has been wrong in what it has been doing to defend its people’s safety and freedom. Not even once.

I see a trend of people supporting Hamas for the terrorist attacks and calling for more. Problem is, many of them aren’t even muslims. Why are they doing this? And most importantly why is everyone else silent?

Which one’s the side that’s launching rockets from schools? Using children as meat shields?

Don’t tell me it’s only the terminally online people that do this because I’ve seen with my own beautiful badger eyes people handing out papers to join protests for “Israel to stop the genocide”. What the fuck?

Why are they doing this? It’s not morally right to support a terrorist group whose only goal is “kill all the Jews”. Why is there so much pressure on Israel?

EDIT: by the way, I have heard Hamas support from some gay friends of friends too. And I’m like…why…? And they can never seem to give me any reason other than “genocide”. And when I say that “genocide” is what Hamas wants I get called names.
 
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Coolsonickirby

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Which one’s the side that’s launching rockets from schools? Using children as meat shields?
Isntreal. Isntreal.

It’s not morally right to support a terrorist group whose only goal is “kill all the Jews”.
Good thing that isn't their goal.

Yet I have never thought that Israel has been wrong in what it has been doing to defend its people’s safety and freedom. Not even once.
If that's what Isntreal was doing, then yea, you'd be right. But look at the amount of innocent civilians they're bombing and tell me that its all for defending its people's "safety" and "freedom". Look at what they were doing to Palestine from even before Oct. 7th. Look at how they rejected each and every hostage exchange and cease fire request that came to them.
 

AdenTheThird

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I‘m left leaning. Very left leaning. I don’t like religions. I follow none.
Neither am I; I'm Atheist. But I'm not left-leaning. Religion and politics aren't mutually exclusive. That's an important distinction that can easily muddle things up.
I see a trend of people supporting Hamas for the terrorist attacks and calling for more.
There is a very fine line between supporting a country and supporting that country's war crimes. The two are distinct and not mutually exclusive. Most of the Palestinian protests I've witnessed in person, for instance, call for a cease-fire. I have never seen a pro-Palestinian protest advocating for more terrorist attacks. I've also only seen protests centered around Palestine--not Hamas. Another important distinction.
Which one’s the side that’s launching rockets from schools? Using children as meat shields?
This is an unfairly provocative comment. Both Israel and Palestine have committed various war crimes and other atrocities against innocent civilians. Comparing apples to oranges in this case serves no productive purpose. These two countries are at war and neither side is objectively in the right. Thus, neither Israel or Hamas is less guilty than the other. Both militaries are in the wrong as they have both committed war crimes. It's very easy to hypocritically forgive your own side of treacherous acts while condemning the other--such is the fallacy of political blindness. And it's one very commonly observed on both sides of this conflict.
Don’t tell me it’s only the terminally online people that do this because I’ve seen with my own beautiful badger eyes people handing out papers to join protests for “Israel to stop the genocide”. What the fuck?

Why are they doing this? It’s not morally right to support a terrorist group whose only goal is “kill all the Jews”. Why is there so much pressure on Israel?
A common theme of today's adolescent groups is questioning societal norms and the status quo. If I had to guess, I'd say that widespread support for Palestine is due to this kind of analysis against the U.S., which generally has supported and favored Israel in the past.
Again, I'll re-emphasize here that both countries are guilty of genocide en masse.
I'll also reiterate that most pro-Palestine protests I've witnessed have called for ceasefire (e.g. "Stop the violence", "freedom for Palestine", etc) rather than explicit advocacy for more violence. These are citizens calling for peace, not war hawks. Seeking that peace in vain? In naivete? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That isn't for me to say.

I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons for these protests to occur. There are valid reasons for both sides, as well as poor excuses to support either side.
Perhaps most notably, you can see much of this same behavior on the other side of the fence: Christian and/or conservative Americans blast Hamas for war crimes, genocide, etc etc etc without realizing that their side is equally guilty of many of the same crimes. I'm guessing religious blindness is a factor that plays into Israel supporters more than Palestine supporters, but I suppose the potential is still there nevertheless.

Ultimately, like everyone else, my perspective will be tainted and biased based on what I've seen. My observations don't paint a complete picture and should not be taken as such. My comments here simply reflect what I've personally observed and not necessarily my own opinions.
Hope this gives some insight.
 
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Xzi

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Almost nobody is pro-Hamas, but a whole lot of people are against war crimes and murder of civilians, especially civilian children. The average age of Palestinians is 16, and Israel has had no qualms about attacking hospitals and schools.

Furthermore, Bibi was given intelligence about the October 7th attack a whole year ahead of time. Rather than increase the amount of security and military personnel on that day, he decreased it. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he allowed the attack to happen and started his genocidal campaign in retaliation all just so he could distract from his own criminal history and retain power. Netanyahu is the Israeli equivalent of Putin.
 

JustABadger

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Isntreal. Isntreal.


Good thing that isn't their goal.


If that's what Isntreal was doing, then yea, you'd be right. But look at the amount of innocent civilians they're bombing and tell me that its all for defending its people's "safety" and "freedom". Look at what they were doing to Palestine from even before Oct. 7th. Look at how they rejected each and every hostage exchange and cease fire request that came to them.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

I guess that they were drunk when they wrote shit like this, right?
Post automatically merged:

Neither am I; I'm Atheist. But I'm not left-leaning. Religion and politics aren't mutually exclusive. That's an important distinction that can easily muddle things up.

There is a very fine line between supporting a country and supporting that country's war crimes. The two are distinct and not mutually exclusive. Most of the Palestinian protests I've witnessed in person, for instance, call for a cease-fire. I have never seen a pro-Palestinian protest advocating for more terrorist attacks. I've also only seen protests centered around Palestine--not Hamas. Another important distinction.

This is an unfairly provocative comment. Both Israel and Palestine have committed various war crimes and other atrocities against innocent civilians. Comparing apples to oranges in this case serves no productive purpose. These two countries are at war and neither side is objectively in the right. Thus, neither Israel or Hamas is less guilty than the other. Both militaries are in the wrong as they have both committed war crimes. It's very easy to hypocritically forgive your own side of treacherous acts while condemning the other--such is the fallacy of political blindness. And it's one very commonly observed on both sides of this conflict.

A common theme of today's adolescent groups is questioning societal norms and the status quo. If I had to guess, I'd say that widespread support for Palestine is due to this kind of analysis against the U.S., which generally has supported and favored Israel in the past.
Again, I'll re-emphasize here that both countries are guilty of genocide en masse.
I'll also reiterate that most pro-Palestine protests I've witnessed have called for ceasefire (e.g. "Stop the violence", "freedom for Palestine", etc) rather than explicit advocacy for more violence. These are citizens calling for peace, not war hawks. Seeking that peace in vain? In naivete? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That isn't for me to say.

I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons for these protests to occur. There are valid reasons for both sides, as well as poor excuses to support either side.
Perhaps most notably, you can see much of this same behavior on the other side of the fence: Christian and/or conservative Americans blast Hamas for war crimes, genocide, etc etc etc without realizing that their side is equally guilty of many of the same crimes. I'm guessing religious blindness is a factor that plays into Israel supporters more than Palestine supporters, but I suppose the potential is still there nevertheless.

Ultimately, like everyone else, my perspective will be tainted and biased based on what I've seen. My observations don't paint a complete picture and should not be taken as such. My comments here simply reflect what I've personally observed and not necessarily my own opinions.
Hope this gives some insight.
I’m not saying that Israel is in the right of how they’re doing things. I’m saying that there are no reasons for supporting Hamas.

Also, whose side was it that launched rockets from schools and surrounded themselves with children to amp up the civilian casualties? What about all the videos of people cheering for the slaughter of the Jewish civilians? Surely not Israel’s.
 

JustABadger

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Almost nobody is pro-Hamas
I’ve seen people calling for a global intifada and to ask for more calls of violence. What was the saying? “If 9 people and 1 nazi are sitting at a table there are 10 nazis”? Why is no one condemning stuff like this?
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This is taken out of context and not representative of Palestine. Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing, and Israel is not an innocent party in the conflict.
Too bad the thread is talking about Hamas and not once referred to Palestine.

But I’m sure you know that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas, right?
 

AdenTheThird

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I’ve seen people calling for a global intifada and to ask for more calls of violence. What was the saying? “If 9 people and 1 nazi are sitting at a table there are 10 nazis”? Why is no one condemning stuff like this?
Primarily because there are no clear-cut moral high grounds in complex wars such as this one. Different people see justice in different ways, and that doesn't necessarily make one perspective or the other invalid.
Your Nazi metaphor is irrelevant because Nazism is a much more clear-cut and objectively inhumane ideology. Again--Hamas is a terrorist group, and Palestine is a nation. The two are not the same thing.
If you truly saw a group asking for more calls to violence (and confirmed that they were indeed asking for violence by analyzing the group/asking questions/confirming with them personally) then you most likely saw a minority-held viewpoint among pro-Palestinian protests. Protests calling for further violence are unusual and uncommon, and many protests may seem to call for violence by unattentive observers even when they may not.
 

Xzi

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I’ve seen people calling for a global intifada and to ask for more calls of violence. What was the saying? “If 9 people and 1 nazi are sitting at a table there are 10 nazis”? Why is no one condemning stuff like this?
There are plenty of people denouncing any/all calls for escalation. There are also several parallels you could draw between the IDF and the nazis. Whatever your opinions may be, Israel is objectively in the dominant position of power in this conflict, and so they should be held to a higher standard of conduct than a terrorist organization.
 

Xzi

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Woke cultists burn and forbid books and movies and stuff
That's exclusive to the far-right in the US.

now they are becoming overtly hauteful towards jewish people
The right hates Jewish and Arabic people equally. They only support zionists in this instance because they're pro-genocide.
 

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RAHelllord

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https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

I guess that they were drunk when they wrote shit like this, right?
Post automatically merged:


I’m not saying that Israel is in the right of how they’re doing things. I’m saying that there are no reasons for supporting Hamas.

Also, whose side was it that launched rockets from schools and surrounded themselves with children to amp up the civilian casualties? What about all the videos of people cheering for the slaughter of the Jewish civilians? Surely not Israel’s.
Hamas is not Palestine, Hamas is only currently in power because Israel has not allowed Palestine to have a government election in almost 20 years.

Its also important for context that Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the Ashkenazi Jews are all Europeans.
Israel has been founded by European occupation (British specifically) who have allowed Jewish Zionists to immigrate en masse because the Brits wanted them out of the UK.
The Zionists meanwhile had the manifesto that they wanted to create an ethnostate for themselves no matter the cost, and the British latched onto that and promised them Jerusalem and the surrounding area.
Fast forward about a decade after the fall the Ottoman Empire and the immigrating Jews are causing all sorts of trouble to the Muslim natives, including the West Wall Riots that the British empire has to constantly intervene and both protect the muslims from the Jews, and the Jews from Muslim retaliation.
The British giving the Jews preferential economic treatment (only Jewish people were allowed to operate power factories), combined with the fact that they helped the Jewish population to forcefully remove Muslims from their ancestral homes ultimately led to riots which then led to the Arab revolt, which then led to the massive crackdown and the founding of Israel.
And ever since Israel became a thing they've been busy illegally annexing and settling what remains of Palestine.
Israel is currently an apartheid state, where Palestinians can't move freely and have an entirely separate set of laws applying to them. They also are largely forced to live in ghettos or caged into small areas like animals.

All of this is to say, Israel has made it clear that they want to genocide all of Palestine and completely annex the area. Which naturally the Palestinians oppose as they'd like to actually live in their own country, under their own rule.
 

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Hamas is not Palestine, Hamas is only currently in power because Israel has not allowed Palestine to have a government election in almost 20 years.

Its also important for context that Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the Ashkenazi Jews are all Europeans.
Israel has been founded by European occupation (British specifically) who have allowed Jewish Zionists to immigrate en masse because the Brits wanted them out of the UK.
The Zionists meanwhile had the manifesto that they wanted to create an ethnostate for themselves no matter the cost, and the British latched onto that and promised them Jerusalem and the surrounding area.
Fast forward about a decade after the fall the Ottoman Empire and the immigrating Jews are causing all sorts of trouble to the Muslim natives, including the West Wall Riots that the British empire has to constantly intervene and both protect the muslims from the Jews, and the Jews from Muslim retaliation.
The British giving the Jews preferential economic treatment (only Jewish people were allowed to operate power factories), combined with the fact that they helped the Jewish population to forcefully remove Muslims from their ancestral homes ultimately led to riots which then led to the Arab revolt, which then led to the massive crackdown and the founding of Israel.
And ever since Israel became a thing they've been busy illegally annexing and settling what remains of Palestine.
Israel is currently an apartheid state, where Palestinians can't move freely and have an entirely separate set of laws applying to them. They also are largely forced to live in ghettos or caged into small areas like animals.

All of this is to say, Israel has made it clear that they want to genocide all of Palestine and completely annex the area. Which naturally the Palestinians oppose as they'd like to actually live in their own country, under their own rule.
 

lolcatzuru

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I‘m left leaning. Very left leaning. I don’t like religions. I follow none.

Yet I have never thought that Israel has been wrong in what it has been doing to defend its people’s safety and freedom. Not even once.

I see a trend of people supporting Hamas for the terrorist attacks and calling for more. Problem is, many of them aren’t even muslims. Why are they doing this? And most importantly why is everyone else silent?

Which one’s the side that’s launching rockets from schools? Using children as meat shields?

Don’t tell me it’s only the terminally online people that do this because I’ve seen with my own beautiful badger eyes people handing out papers to join protests for “Israel to stop the genocide”. What the fuck?

Why are they doing this? It’s not morally right to support a terrorist group whose only goal is “kill all the Jews”. Why is there so much pressure on Israel?

EDIT: by the way, I have heard Hamas support from some gay friends of friends too. And I’m like…why…? And they can never seem to give me any reason other than “genocide”. And when I say that “genocide” is what Hamas wants I get called names.

The TV tells them to, so they do.
 

Deleted member 720152

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Hamas is not Palestine, Hamas is only currently in power because Israel has not allowed Palestine to have a government election in almost 20 years.

Elections in Gaza and the West Bank are NOT blocked by Israel. International pressure was on Hamas and the PA before October last year to allow for elections to take place. One of the reasons for Hamas to launch the attack was to trigger the cycle of violence that sustains them and the likes of Netanyahu/Likud.


Its also important for context that Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the Ashkenazi Jews are all Europeans.
Israel has been founded by European occupation (British specifically) who have allowed Jewish Zionists to immigrate en masse because the Brits wanted them out of the UK.

Jewish people are Jewish people. Theyve been in the ME region for well over 4000 years now. If youre Jewish, you have a heritage attached to the place that you are entitled to if you so wish as with any other culture with any place attachment. Its HOW that claim was enforced at the expense of the Arab population also in the space thats the issue. To be clear, the only 'occupation' is the Occupied Territories today.
The British giving the Jews preferential economic treatment (only Jewish people were allowed to operate power factories), combined with the fact that they helped the Jewish population to forcefully remove Muslims from their ancestral homes ultimately led to riots which then led to the Arab revolt, which then led to the massive crackdown and the founding of Israel.

Its true about the British giving preferential treatment to one indigenous group over another in the Palestine Mandate, a copy and paste pattern they used in all their colonial administrations. Again though, Jewish people are Jewish people. Everything today comes from that like in other former colonial possessions they had. 'Mandate' was just another word for it only now with League of Nations approval.

Zionism is the debate about whether Jewish people actually need a homeland. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesnt even specify it has to be in the ME. Its been turned into a pejorative term since. The Jewish population in the region was growing since the 1700's, we know thanks to tax records. . While the rate of immigration increased in the 20s, it was the 30's where it really accelerated, mainly refugees from Europe with nowhere else to go. The State of Israel was going to be re-established in some form be it as a separate entity or within a larger Palestine. The Jewish people in the region are basically the longest running independence movement in history. Negotiations were ongoing right up to the War of Independence/Nakba when some of the settler groups jumped the gun with UN Resolution 181, the proposed partition and again typical of the withdrawing British.

In this case the State of Israel was meant to be the re-establishment of the Jewish homeland they had lost and to be done via British decolonisation, the same as Pakistan was meant to be a homeland for Muslims. That was the thinking at the time anyway and it was horrifically done in each case. Also see Northern Ireland, Cyprus and other territories in Africa.

And ever since Israel became a thing they've been busy illegally annexing and settling what remains of Palestine.

Actually the pattern since the end of the Six Days War is the reverse up till Netanyahu. Resolution 242 in the wake of that particular conflict provided for the end of the Occupation with the recognition of Israel and its right to exist by all concerned parties. What you have had up until the coming of Hamas and Netanyahu is a series of withdrawals timed with peace treaties and recognition. Thats how relations with Egypt and Jordan came about followed with withdrawals from Sinai by 1982 and the very establishment of the PA in Gaza and the West Bank. Golan Heights was under negotiation last I heard with talk of financial compensation. Even with Lebanon, they managed an agreement on a maritime border about 2 years ago and all that border is is a ceasefire line. The settlements are to do with Netanyahu and market governance ie cheap land for development, also the push factor for the evictions in occupied territories. Sure, they wouldn't mind in the slightest if full annexation came about with that but its the building industry in Israel thats pushing it.

Israel is currently an apartheid state, where Palestinians can't move freely and have an entirely separate set of laws applying to them. They also are largely forced to live in ghettos or caged into small areas like animals.
The Israeli Apartheid theory came via the Cold War and the USSR, in particular the heavily antisemitic KGB who was also trying to curry favour with Arab and other unaligned states internationally as a counter to the Western capitalist system, hence their 'aid' packages of hospitals etc along with education of elites in Moscow. Israel didnt fall behind the Iron Curtain hence that move. Its basic Great Replacement theory ie if Jewish people in the area are 'settlers' as in South Africa, then theyre 'illegitimate' and therefore 'worthy of destruction'. Remember, it was tried before in the War of Independence and invasion by several different states (separate to the ethic cleansing of far right paramilitary groups during the Nakba). It was the Soviet Union who proposed apartheid to become a crime against humanity with that specific South Africa context name when a like by like comparison wouldnt work. They had some success with the UN 'Zionism is Racism' resolution 3379 which was later rescinded when the Cold War collapsed. Whats also helped push it is the 'elite capture' of several NGO's in the region. The Amnesty 'report' didnt hold up academically speaking for example, its just to generate headlines.

In terms of dual systems of laws etc, in very broad strokes that was due to the collapse of the peace process in the 90's and the stagnation that occurred in its wake. It was meant to be a process a la Northern Ireland but one interrupted again by the likes of Likud, Hamas etc with international actors also trying to take advantage for their own gains, be it financial or just ego. Basically hundreds of different groups prefer it this way as it justifies their existence with no regard for the people in the area who have been caught in the middle.

Thats the sick reality of whats going on, Its not Israel vs Palestine, its a whole bunch of groups coining out of keeping it all going. Right now its Netanyahu trying to save his own hide via killing 40,000 plus civilians that Hamas couldnt give a flying fuck about, nor do the vast majority of people that pretend to care for their own egos. You can spot them easily enough via the regurgitation of slogans and tropes along with reductive and selective histories.
 
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