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  1. Trump

    48 vote(s)
    38.1%
  2. Biden

    78 vote(s)
    61.9%
  3. 126 voter(s)
  1. Big Man Tyrone2

    Big Man Tyrone2 GBAtemp Regular
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    As a Biden, "supporter", I think Trump won. I, however, don't think that anyone lost. Trump came in and did what he had to do. He created a ruckus on the debate stage, and his supporters eat that shit up. Biden spoke pretty well honestly, not as good as his 2008/2012 performances, but much, MUCH better than his DNC 2020 Primary performance. What they should add, however, is a mute button for the first 4 minutes of the debate, enough to let both Trump and Biden get their thoughts out. Afterwards, it is up to Biden in the next debate to handle Trump's unique debate style.

    Wallace was pretty decent. He should have pressed Biden more on the, "pack the court" question, but other than that, he made sure that both parties held up to the terms that they agreed to (or at least tried). Biden also needs to be able to catch on to the shit Trump is constantly spewing out. A lot of it was easily debunk-able, but Biden just let it slide. I think the VP debates will be much better.
     
  2. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!
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    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but "stand down" wasn't what he said.


    As far as wars go, did he not abandon the Kurds, iirc, then use that same army to protect oil?
     
  3. wonkeytonk

    wonkeytonk Advanced Member
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    The GAYS won
     
  4. crimpshrine

    crimpshrine GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    If you take EVERYTHING he said regarding that in the debate - minus the standby word (alone) it would seem to indicate that was the wrong word choice. Not even sure why they keep asking the same question in different versions over and over again.

    Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.

    And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

    Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

    We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.
     
    Last edited by crimpshrine, Oct 1, 2020
  5. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Let's look at what he did say:
    EjQvP2-U4AAu74U.png
    Sounds to me like he said "I'll disavow anything and tell anyone to stop, but that includes the left as well". Hardly a racist sentiment.
     
  6. Big Man Tyrone2

    Big Man Tyrone2 GBAtemp Regular
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    ... what does that mean?
     
  7. CPG

    CPG lil darkie is a good rapper
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    yo mama oooo gotten
     
  8. LumInvader

    LumInvader GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Had Chris Wallace challenged Trump to condemn Antifa, does anyone here honestly believe he would've waffled his way to a wrong choice of words? Rather than provide an immediate answer like the rest of us, Trump deployed a stalling tactic, which ultimately led to him sticking his foot in his mouth because he refused to use the words "condemn" or "disavow" so-and-so in the same sentence. So for me it isn't so much about the wrong word choice -- which I agree is a plausible argument.

    It's the fact that he attempted to soften his tone when challenged to condemn a specific group of Trump supporters. The next day it was more of the same, when given a second chance to condemn Proud Boys, he again told them to "stand down" while offering that he doesn't know who they are. Now where have we seen that one before? :rofl2:

    By the same token, Joe Biden should be held to the same standard when challenged about Antifa and violent BLM protests. There is absolutely no wriggle room on the topic of extremism in the USA.

    I agree with the rest of your post, btw. ;)
     
  9. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Indeed, chosen by Lord Putin himself, leading to the wondrous land of oligarchs.
     
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  10. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    Comments like this are why Trump is playing chess and people like you are playing checkers. Maybe it isn't all that smart to piss off perhaps the most dangerous man in the world who has a nuke pointed right at you. Maybe it's best to get along with this guy. Hilary would have had us in a war with him. Now maybe you're not in this country and don't care or maybe you are, but I don't think anyone would think a war with Russia is a good idea. Hillary who is supposed to be the peaceful liberal made comments about going to war with several countries including Russia while Trump got us out of wars and didn't start any. Liberals who are for peace and smoking weed are not in alignment with modern day Democrats. Modern day Democrats are war hungry, power hungry deceitful people. You only have to look on Television for proof as they encourage rioting. Peacful Liberals are being fooled and lied to.
     
    Last edited Oct 1, 2020
  11. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Psycho!
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    The Proud Boys aren't white supremacists anyway. Extremists maybe, but not white supremacists.
     
  12. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    8D chess indeed.

    Btw, have you ever heard of the concept of mutually assured destruction? There is no way there would or will ever be a direct war between the US and Russia.
     
  13. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    I'm glad you're here we have someone who knows the inner workings of both USA and Russia and can assure everyone there would never be a war. I'm sure there was someone like you before World War 1 and 2 saying the same thing. Bad blood can make anything happen. Hilary was already spreading bad blood while she was a Presidential candidate.

    It's also funny to me everything against Dems is a conspiracy but everything heard about Trump is fact. He did not collude with Putin to win the Presidency that's a conspiracy started by Dems and they tried to use it to get him out of the White House and they failed. So they just move on to the next thing taxes, BLM, handling of the virus. I'm sure if he's re-elected there'll be a half a dozen new things.

    Speaking of conspiracies it's funny how main stream media was covering Pizzagate for awhile then just dropped it and you've never heard a word from them about it since. The way I see it Podesta, crooked Hilary and others got caught red handed with those emails and somehow it just disappeared. Very interesting. The guy who said he found those emails who worked in the FBI recently said he was treated very badly after revealing those emails by others in the FBI. But why wouldn't they want the truth to be known? I think there is corruption running rampted through the U.S. Government.
     
    Last edited Oct 1, 2020
  14. UltraSUPRA

    UltraSUPRA *Attack on Titan S1 opening intensifies*
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    Friendly reminder that Wallace was biased and Biden told Trump to "shut up, man".
     
  15. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Fallback to that is nuclear winter, which always happens if enough nukes are launched at any cities, doesnt matter which ones. That also ensures, that there never will be a fully fledged nuclear war.

    Want proof? :) Kim Jong-un has only become a thing in the collective consciousness of US citizens, because of 'mandatory diplomacy' that follows, if another state has developed nuclear warfare capabilities. From that point forward, some methods used to pressure countries are not used anymore, and you dont use them as patsies in situations anymore where you redraw borders.

    Russia doesnt want to wage war either, economically and militarily the US would still be on top. What russia wants and does, is to 'secure its borders' and 'stabilize' its ally states (the not so neutral neutrals), strike down revolts in countries on the edge of its sphere of influence, and fight proxy wars in countries in the middle east, like everyone else.

    US wouldnt want war (aside from proxy wars), because if they cant draw in china - whats the point? International and economic importance would suffer, at least for a while. The way the US gained dominace over the world economy at one point was to enter WW2 - late.

    Currently wars between developed nations are fought economically, if at all.

    Reasons given for war that start with 'democracy' are BS, under Pax americana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana ) and

    starting at 4:01 (sadly its german dubbed, but if you listen to whats said in english, this imho is the best primer) - whats done is the following:

    Everyone profits if flow of resources and goods is uninterrupted (this is on the verge of changing somewhat

    - but still important.).

    If as a small unimportant state, you want to become something, in the past first you tried to get your population up, then had an access of young males, you could first exploit labour wise to buy weapons, and then intervene in your neighbor state, that might be richer, but 'older' in terms of population age. Issue: While that is going on and you try to become the new head honcho, flow of ressources and goods is interrupted. Which is why as a developed nation, you dont want that - so you intervene. US did this for ages as 'the world police' (people outside the Nato dint like, but what are they gonna do), which you could read about by reading up on the concept of american exceptionalism.

    Then relative worth of oil sank (because the US became a net exporter of gas and aquired new reserves (fracking, new pipelines from canada), and the US got less interested in 'doing that service' for the oil rich countries in the middle east (Last wars kinda didnt go so well also.).

    Then OPEC dropped the oil price to the point where fracking wasnt viable anymore, and that industry largely went bankrupt in the US (but it could be restarted in the future, if there wasnt the climate change thing), partly because they needed a stable income at a certain rate (their own populations wouldnt have been happy otherwise), partly because you bought US interests for a while longer, that and they bought US weapons overpriced, and in high quantities, not to use them, but to basicaly 'hold interest'/bribe also to hold the US in the region for a while longer. That and Israel wants it as well - because rich, but old (demography) country, with a bunch of 'natural' enemies around it.

    Russia, is more agressive currently, because if they have to stabilize something, now is the time, because demography wise, they'll lack young people/solders 20 years from now as well. Also they try to uphold a sphere of influence, that basically runs north/south, so from russia, down to the middle east. Conflicts are mostly baked in with US allies (Europe), not with the US themselves.

    Russia interfering in the US election and maybe sponsoring Trump (loans) was just some high risk/potentially high reward international play, with no concrete purpose, that - if anything allowed them to focus on getting their boarder infrastructure under wraps, while sabotaging US/European ally relations.

    US and Europeans being allies (NATO) loses importance, as - first more countries become a little less globalized in terms of their economic flow of goods, less important with russia becoming less important (as is the case now), and with the middle east becoming less important.

    This means that Europe has to increase military spending, which it has done. Diplomacy still is preferred when dealing with other first world countries, but agein - the stabilizing effort.

    As Nato and the UN become less important, another goal like fighting climate change, would ensure international cooperation. Thats not me saying that climate change is not real, thats just another angle to the whole thing.

    Hillary would have, and war and, ...: Hillary was seen as a Hawk, that would have reacted in some proxy wars with more military intervention. Thats all.

    For US military families, this still sucks, but none of this is a reason to fear another world, or even nuclear war.

    On the nuclear front, US has to replace old nuclear weapons right about now, and moves out of treaties, that are supposed to reduce weapon count and potency (so its not constantly on heads of states mind), so it can upgrade their toys to never seen before capability (threat factor), russia cant compete, no money. The other question is - should they compete, the answer is still no, the US should not be upgrading capability. But tell that to the US. So US is dismantling international treaties, and says it does so, to force china to get into newer ones - but that is largely bull, chinas capabilities are still rather basic in that sector (because it wasnt a priority for anyone for quite a while).

    Issue - if climate issues cause insurance companies to default and retract, and there is much more 'pressure to survive' in certain regions of the world, and the US has just enhanced nuclear capabilities (including smaller nukes), preassures could arise to use them against states without the ability to strike back. Thats what has everyone worried in that sector currently.


    ANY idea that goes beyond that and talks about the possibility of a hot war in or near the US, or a war with russia, or a nuclear war - is entirely 'off the charts' and only exists in common peoples minds, mostly because of extremist propaganda. Left or right in that case.

    Didnt cover south east asia conflict potentials which are largely china asserting dominance over trading routes and getting into conflict with US allies (f.e. Japan, whose position is solely dependent on being an active sea power in the region (in itself its a comparatively very small island)).

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Untrue, and the President interrupted Biden 73 times during the debate:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54350538
     
    Last edited by notimp, Oct 2, 2020
  16. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Nobody thought that before WWII because war was a constant. What changed after WWII was the nuclear bomb. If USA and Russia exchanged bombs there would be a decade long nuclear fallout that wipe out most of the human population. There are no incentives, political, monetary or whatsoever to start a war, only deterrents, that's the whole point of the nuclear arsenal of both countries. That's the whole reason why the cold war was a cold war and not an actual war. You only saw proxy conflicts. I can't believe I have to type this out to you. Is your school system that bad that you don't lay out the intricacies of it?

    That's why Putin wants to expand his empires as he can, that's why he invaded Crimea. He can only do that with non-NATO countries exactly because of that, that's why he didn't lay a finger on the Baltics. Nuclear power is a no-go.

    And yes, there is corruption running rampant through the US government, Clintons aren't innocent, and you don't need a crazy made up BS like pizzagate. The corruption simply comes from traffic of influence.

    Trump however is not a cure, he's steroids overdose for corruption. From tax evasion to freaking treason attempts for the extra buck. And he is destroying not only the government as the society as a whole for it. And potentially even the democratic process as he intents.

    I don't know why I give a bother though. If you can't see the blatant obvious, if you don't aknowledge reliable sources, if you don't even know or care to know the basics of history and foreign affairs, I mean...
     
    Last edited by pustal, Oct 2, 2020
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  17. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    It's funny it's always crazy made up bs on this site. But there were emails. It's not really a crazy nutjob conspiracy when there's evidence. Even liberal news was covering it for awhile, until they didn't. I wonder why they would have been covering crazy made up bs? even if you're right and it is crazy made up b.s. does that not prove that EVERYTHING they say is not true?

    I am not going to claim Trump is 100% innocent, but neither are Dems by any stretch of the imagination. Jesus could not be POTUS, he would be too innocent and kind for that job.
     
    Last edited Oct 2, 2020
  18. Little_Anonymous_Hacker

    Little_Anonymous_Hacker GBAtemp's Openly ABDL 1337 H4X0R
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    The billionaire donors.
     
  19. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    There were e-mails about going to eat pizza. The level of crazy to transform that into pedophilia is out of this world. No self-respecting news source covered that aside the point of stating that some people claim that, there was no story there otherwise.

    And I told you they aren't saints, I don't know why you continue with this whataboutism.
     
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  20. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    You can't be that stupid. Emails about eating actual pizza. You're a waste of time there's no way you actually even believe that bullshit. It wasn't just about child sex ring either there was talk of Hilary committing treason and a lot of the emails were destroyed. It was swept under the rug. And all your favorite Liberal News WERE covering it so you're pretty much admitting they're all discredited.

    But I get it you're a hardcore liberal and not even from this country. I'm wasting my own time with you.
     
    Last edited Oct 2, 2020
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